SELECT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Jun 2010

2010 Annual Output Statement for Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs

Chairman

Apologies have been received from Deputy Mary Upton. This meeting has been convened to allow the committee to consider Vote 24 — Charitable Donations and Bequests and the Annual Output Statement 2010 for the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests for Ireland; and Vote 27- Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the annual output statement 2010 for the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs.

I welcome the following: the Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Pat Carey; the Minister of State at the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs with special responsibility for disability issues and mental health, Deputy John Moloney; and the Minister of State at the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs with special responsibility for equality, human rights and integration, Deputy Mary Alexandra White, who is a former member of this committee. I also welcome the officials from the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs, Seosamh Ó hAdhmaill, Secretary General, and Mr. Colm Treanor.

Members will be aware that as part of the budgetary process reform initiated by the Minister for Finance in his Budget Statement 2006 each Department must now publish an annual output statement for consideration by Oireachtas committees. In line with that reformed budgetary process an annual output statement has been provided and has been circulated, along with the briefing, to the members of the committee. It is a very important initiative and is intended to facilitate better parliamentary involvement in the budget and Estimates process. In addition, in his correspondence the Minister for Finance requested the Estimates debate should have a particular focus on the outputs to be achieved for the moneys being voted.

I propose that we begin with an opening statement from the Minister, followed by opening statements from each of the Opposition spokespersons, Deputies Ring and Wall. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey)

Go raibh maith agat. Is mór agam an deis seo a fháil teacht os comhair an Choiste seo inniu chun Meastacháin mo Roinne agus an Ráiteas Bliantúil Aschurtha do 2010 a phlé. I am pleased to present the 2010 Estimates and Annual Output Statement for Vote 27, the newly configured Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. Members of the committee will be aware that with effect from 2 of June 2010, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs was renamed the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. This change comes as part of the restructuring of Departments and agencies announced by the Taoiseach in Dáil Éireann, on 23 March 2010 to ensure greater coherence and produce more efficient delivery of services.

As members will be aware, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs held responsibility for a wide range of policies and programmes in respect of community and rural development, drugs, volunteering, the Gaeltacht, Irish language and the islands. In addition to these areas, my new Department incorporates responsibility for social inclusion policy and family policy from the former Department of Social and Family Affairs and for equality, disability, integration and human rights from the former Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. My Department has always had a strong insight into the community, whether it involves urban deprivation, rural isolation, social deprivation, islands or Gaeltacht communities. The revised programme for Government reaffirms the Government's commitment to people in disadvantaged and marginalised communities and the new grouping of functions will allow for greater cohesion in our role in supporting all communities.

This year sees the publication by Departments of their fourth annual output statements for consideration by Oireachtas committees. This means, of course, that the statements, as well as including targets for 2010, report on actual achievements against the outputs that were proposed in the 2009 Annual Output Statement of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. I look forward to discussing these with the committee. Programmes 1 to 7 of the Annual Output Statement cover the functions inherited from the former Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. Output targets for 2010 are provided for the newly transferred functions in an appendix to the 2010 annual output statement. All of these areas will, of course, be fully integrated into the 2011 annual output statement. My Department has also supplied the committee with a briefing note in the traditional format. Accordingly, I propose to make only a brief intervention at this time in order to as to leave time for more meaningful consideration of the Estimate and the various programme areas, outputs and so on.

As the committee is aware, the Government decided, as part of its strategy to manage its way through the current severe economic crisis and to return the country to prosperity, to reduce spending on public services by almost €1 billion in 2010 compared with the pre-budget Estimates. Across Government, our approach has been to do this in as balanced a way as possible and this is reflected in the 2010 Revised Estimates Volume allocations for my Department. While the allocations to most subheads are reduced, my primary concern is to make every effort to ensure that the daily front line services provided with funding from my Department are protected, especially those focused on the needs of the most socially deprived communities. To the greatest extent possible, the savings have been sought through efficiencies rather than through reductions in services. Every saving that can be made from cutting down on overheads is being pursued in order that the entire range of urban, rural, Gaeltacht and island communities we serve can retain, to the greatest extent possible, the services that have been developed in partnership with them over the years.

I propose to refer briefly to some of the key areas of expenditure under my direct responsibility. I will then pass over to my colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy White, who will speak about relevant aspects of the equality, integration and human rights programmes, and the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, who will deal with the area of disability.

The Revised Estimates Volume 2010 gross allocation for my Department, at €466.111 million, reflects full-year funding in regard to the functions inherited from the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs and part-year funding in regard to the newly transferred functions. Funding in regard to social inclusion and family policy is for the period from May 1 2010 to December 31. Funding in regard to the equality, integration, disability and human rights areas relates to the period from June 1 to December 31.

With regard to the developing communities subheads, some €140.908 million, or 30% of my Department’s resources, is being allocated to this area in 2010. This includes significant funding of €67.5 million for the new integrated local and community development programme. This new programme preserves elements of good practice from the CDP and LDSIP programmes and will enable groups to objectively demonstrate the positive impacts they are securing for local communities through the prioritisation of key front line services and supports and the minimization of overhead and ancillary costs. There is also provision for my Department’s RAPID leverage programme, which targets some of the most disadvantaged urban areas in the country, and for dormant accounts funding to tackle economic and social disadvantage.

The range of social inclusion programmes funded by my Department have made a considerable contribution to the tasks of countering disadvantage and in promoting equality and social and economic inclusion within the communities they serve. My key concern is that all these programmes operate in co-operation, not in competition, with each other, and that resources are optimised through prioritisation of front line services and supports over ancillary and overhead costs.

As regards charities regulation, my Department will continue to roll out the implementation of the Charities Act 2009, which will introduce a new statutory regulatory framework for charities as well as providing support for the implementation codes of practice for charitable fundraising, and for the development by INKEX of a comprehensive public database of not-for-profit organisations operating in Ireland. The gross allocation of €440,000 to Vote 24 for the Office of Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests is, I believe, sufficient to enable the office to carry out its statutory functions during 2010.

Funding of €36.182 million has been allocated to the area of tackling problem drug use. The areas of expenditure covered by this provision include the 14 local and 10 regional drugs task forces, the emerging needs fund, the cocaine and rehabilitation fund and capital initiatives. It also funds the research programme and administration of the National Advisory Committee on Drugs. It is necessary to take account of the pressure on the public finances and against that background priority is given to front line services in the drugs area. While the funding available for drugs initiatives in 2010 shows an 8% decrease on the 2009 outturn, the allocation of over €36 million in my Department's Vote is only part of an overall allocation across a number of Departments and agencies to tackle the drugs problem. A total of €275 million in total is being provided by the Government in 2010 in this regard.

With regard to rural development, a total of €101.445 million has been allocated in 2010 for a range of supports and investment programmes designed to support and foster rural communities. This includes provision of €4.297 million for actions that my Department is pursuing to implement the national countryside recreation strategy. We aim to continue the significant progress we have already made with the support of a range of key stakeholders under Comhairle na Tuaithe in promoting rural recreation across the country. This area offers great potential for our rural communities and the activity tourism figures from Fáilte Ireland back that up. We will also continue to invest in rural infrastructure, with €8 million for the CLAR programme this year. There is an allocation of €40 million for the new rural development programme 2007-13. This programme, which commenced in February 2009, is co-funded by the European Union and the funding available for the delivery of Leader activities has almost trebled from €150 million for the 2000-06 period to over €425 million for the 2007-13 period. The 2010 allocation represents an increase of approximately 120% on the level of expenditure in 2009. Some 36 local action groups throughout the country are implementing the Leader elements at a local level.

Gaeltacht and islands development received a provision of €62.943 million to support Gaeltacht and island communities. This money is allocated for a range of social, cultural and infrastructural improvement schemes in the Gaeltacht, including several significant language-centred programmes. The provision of €16.7 million for island development will allow the completion of works on Cé Chill Rónáin, which is the largest island project undertaken in the history of the State. With regard to Údarás na Gaeltachta, there is a total provision of €29.915 million, including €14.915 million for administration and current programmes and €15 million for capital programmes.

Turning now to the promotion and maintenance of the Irish language, funding of €8 million in 2010 has been provided to support the use of Irish throughout the country. This includes provision for Irish language support schemes and Oifig an Choimisinéir Teanga. My Department will also continue to fund the advanced Irish language skills Initiative, which seeks to support the accelerated provision of specified third level Irish language courses to meet requirements arising from EU recognition of Irish as a full working language, as well as from the continued implementation at home of the Official Languages Act 2003.

In respect of North-South co-operation, €52.229 million is provided to support the two North-South implementation bodies, An Foras Teanga, which comprises Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency, and Waterways Ireland. An allocation of €2.01 million has been made for relevant measures under the new PEACE III and INTERREG programmes.

With regard to family policy and social inclusion, €23.953 million has been provided in my Department's Vote in 2010. Some €23.6million is provided to the Family Support Agency, FSA, the functions of which include funding of family and community services resource centres and organisations providing marriage, relationship, child and bereavement counselling services; and conducting research on family-related issues. The FSA also provides a nationwide family mediation service with 16 offices around the country.

My Department's role in regard to social inclusion is to support the Government in developing and implementing the strategies for preventing, reducing and ultimately eliminating poverty and social exclusion. This involves promoting greater social inclusion and social cohesion in collaboration with other stakeholders, including in particular people experiencing poverty. Much of this work is funded directly through the administration budget of my Department, although programme funding of €353,000 is available for a number of initiatives, including the EU year for combating poverty and social exclusion, the EU community action programme for employment and social solidarity, PROGRESS, and a small number of grants and funding allocations initiated by the former Combat Poverty Agency.

As I indicated at the outset, I am happy to expand on any matter that members may wish to raise regarding the Estimates and the annual output statement. I now ask my colleagues, the Ministers of State at the Department of Community, Rural Affairs, Deputies Mary White and Moloney, to speak on their respective areas.

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Mary Alexandra White)

Is mór agam bheith anseo inniú chun labhairt leis an gcoiste faoi mo chuid curaimaí mar Aire Stáit ag an Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionannais agus Gaeltachta.

As the Minister indicated, I propose to speak briefly about programmes coming within my direct responsibility under the equality, integration and human rights areas. Programme funding of €14.328 million is being allocated to these functions in 2010.

I feel strongly that the Government decision to bring the policy areas relating to equality, integration and human rights together in one Department will bring greater collaboration and synergy and I am committed to driving forward the agendas of equality and human rights and bringing about a more inclusive and integrated Ireland. Bringing together these functions affords us the opportunity to re-examine and improve policy formulation, co-ordination and implementation in these areas. I want to see how policies for greater equality in our society can be strengthened and co-ordinated across Government.

As Members will be aware, the re-configured Department has responsibility, inter alia, for gender equality, equal opportunities, LGBT issues, human rights, disability issues, Traveller policy, social inclusion, integration of migrants and community development. Agencies such as the Equality Authority, the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Tribunal come under its aegis and I have initiated a review of these bodies and the framework within which they operate to see how we can improve them and to ensure an effective equality and rights framework for the new decade.

With regard to equality and human rights programmes, funding of approximately €8.1 million is currently available. In these times of economic difficulties, it is especially important that the human rights of all are fully respected. Some might say we cannot afford the luxury of such rights at present but I disagree strongly. The means by which the weakest and most vulnerable are protected define a society. We have well-established equality legislation for employment and access to goods and services. At its simplest level, this legislation is two-fold. First, in prohibiting certain behaviour as discriminatory, it provides redress to its victims and dissuades against re-offending. Second, it provides a means in law for the State and individuals to create environments which are more conducive to respectful and fair treatment of all persons.

Recently I launched a new phase of the equality for women measure and invited applications for a funding package of approximately €9 million over the next four years. This funding will assist projects engaged in improving women's access to employment through training and personal development in preparation for employment, as well as projects supporting women who undertake entrepreneurial activity and women's advancement in their employment.

Turning to integration, an allocation of €6.232 million is available through the Office of the Minister for Integration and the European Refugees Fund. We share a responsibility for the integration of migrants. Integration is a two-way process of mutual accommodation by migrants and the host population. I have commenced the process of establishing a ministerial council on integration. Expressions of interest from migrants are now being sought for appointment to the council and the closing date is 7 July. Persons from a migrant community who are legally resident in Ireland for two or more years or who have acquired Irish citizenship may apply. Four regional councils will be established, in Dublin, the rest of Leinster, Munster and Connaught-Ulster, respectively, and I encourage migrants with an interest in integration to apply. I intend to announce further initiatives in the area of integration over the coming months.

The economic downturn has presented us with new challenges in ensuring that those who are new to our shores are fully integrated, feel included and comfortable in the communities in which they live, have jobs commensurate with their qualifications, feel able to fully participate in civil society and do not experience language as a barrier. We must ensure that newcomers and non-migrants can live in peace and harmony and that diversity remains a source of richness to our communities for decades to come and the generations to follow.

We cannot afford to be complacent. With this in mind I will continue to listen to our migrants and broader society on how we can bring about deeper, more fulfilling integration and interculturalism. I will be pleased to provide any further information members may request regarding the proposed Estimates provisions or output reporting within my areas of responsibility.

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy John Moloney)

I am pleased to appear before the select committee to discuss my responsibilities as Minister of State with responsibility for disability and mental health at the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs.

My responsibilities overall in the area of disability span four Departments and, consequently, many aspects of disability policy, procedure and processes. As members will be aware, the functions on which I will speak have recently transferred from the former Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform where the disability focus was on policy and the co-ordination of the implementation of this policy across other Departments. I will seek to maintain this focus in the newly configured Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs by continuing to progress the Government's vision of a society in which people with disabilities enjoy equal rights and opportunities to participate in the economic, social and cultural life of the nation and an environment which is accessible to all.

The Government, notwithstanding the difficulty Exchequer position is committed to improving the lives of people with disabilities, promoting their integration in society, changing attitudes and combating the discrimination and poverty they experience. We have succeeded in maintaining a substantial budget allocation for the National Disability Authority in 2010. This amounts to €5.6 million, of which the unspent balance of €4 million is included in subhead 1.2 of the Vote.

As I indicated, my focus in this Department is the co-ordination of policy. It is also Government policy that people with disabilities seeking services from the State should be able to obtain such services from the Departments and bodies which provide them to the general population. Accordingly, while I do not have funding for mainstream services in this Department, the balance of the disability provision — sums of €2.045 million and €300,000 contained in subheads 1.1 and 1.3, respectively — historically funds a small number of organisations, projects and disability awareness raising initiatives. I am pleased funding for these provisions is sustained. I look forward to working in my new Department with the Minister, Deputy Pat Carey, and my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White. I will be pleased to assist members on any issues they may wish to raise.

A provision of €6.401 million has been allocated to the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs in respect of disability. This is the unspent balance at time of transfer of an original allocation in 2010 of €8.601 million. The bulk of this funding is allocated to the National Disability Authority. I acknowledge the valuable contribution made by the authority. As the briefing document details the role of the authority, I do not propose to discuss this area in detail.

Chairman

I ask the spokesperson for the Fine Gael Party, Deputy Michael Ring, to make an opening contribution.

Deputy Michael Ring

I presume we will proceed by discussing each Estimate in turn. This is the first time the Ministers of State, Deputies Mary White and John Moloney, have attended a meeting of the select committee with their respective areas of responsibility having been defined. This creates a difficulty for Opposition parties to the extent that some of our spokespersons are not present because we were not informed of the position until the Ministers of State spoke. The Chairman and Secretary General should note that the Fine Gael Party spokesperson appointed next week requires a briefing to determine what responsibilities have been transferred to the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs.

The reorganisation of the Department has created difficulties for Deputies who table parliamentary questions. For instance, we are informed when we table questions on certain issues to the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, that responsibility for the area in question resides with the Department of Justice and Law Reform. A similar position applies in the case of the Minister of State, Deputy White. Clarity is required on this issue which I have raised with the leader of my party who will next week appoint a new front bench. We want to know who has responsibility for what areas because the lack of clarity is creating considerable difficulties at Question Time.

While I welcome the new responsibilities of the committee, responsibility requires accountability, without which we will not be able to proceed. I do not know if I will be my party's spokesperson next week but the current position must not be allowed to continue. As I stated, when we table questions directed at the Ministers of State, Deputies White and Moloney, we are told they must be tabled to other Departments. This matter must be clarified quickly. The problem is that the Ministers of State have responsibilities in the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs but Deputies are unable to ask them direct questions at Question Time. The Secretary General and senior Minister must address this matter as it causing me and other Opposition spokespersons problems.

We want to have an opportunity to question Ministers. This is good for the Department and for us. I welcome the transfer of responsibilities from the former Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the new Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. Notwithstanding this, Deputies must be able to ask Ministers questions at Question Time. This matter must be addressed.

I welcome the three Ministers. I will be brief to allow my party colleague, Deputy McGinley, address the meeting. This is a challenging time for the Minister, Deputy Carey, to assume his brief. Many voluntary groups are concerned about forthcoming changes and I am aware the Minister plans to meet representatives of such groups for discussions. I am anxious to ascertain what is happening and I hope the Department will provide clarity for voluntary groups quickly. Many people are anxious to know what will be their role and position in future.

As I have repeatedly stated, duplication must be addressed and we cannot have three or four agencies doing the same job. I will discuss this issue when we examine the Estimates. At the same time, people are concerned about the many changes taking place. The Minister must state what measures are proposed and have an open discussion to address the many concerns.

The equality brief is an important one. Times have changed and Ireland has a large immigrant population. The Minister of State, Deputy White, will have many important issues to address in the years ahead. As I indicated, I welcome the decision to transfer the equality brief to the Department but clarity is required and Deputies must be informed about what they can and cannot deal with.

On mental health, which is the brief of the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, serious concerns were raised this year about the funding available for mental health services. A number of changes were due to take place in this area and people are concerned about HSE funding cutbacks, particularly in the mental health area. Mental health is as important as other areas of health care. The Minister of State has an important job to do in making sure mental health services are allocated a fair share of health care funding. These services should not be cut back more than other services on the basis that mental health patients do not have people to speak on their behalf. I hope the Minister of State will take a strong position on this matter because mental health patients have been left behind.

The Charities Act has been brought before the courts. Will the Minister indicate what is the latest position regarding the legislation? According to the Estimates, some 25 or 30 officials are transferring from the Department of Justice and Law Reform to the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. Where will they be deployed?

What is happening with decentralisation? Will it happen at all? In particular, some staff are in Tubbercurry at the moment. Will decentralisation go ahead? With more people moving into the community element of the Department, will more people be coming back to Dublin? Is decentralisation dead?

There is considerable money and many promises associated with the Leader programme. Are we able to match the European money with our money? People are making the applications and dealing with the Leader companies, but the money is not being spent. I need to know what is happening.

Chairman

I am reluctant to interrupt the Deputy, but there is a vote in the House. I propose that we suspend and continue with the Deputy's contribution on our return.

Sitting suspended at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 5.50 p.m.

Chairman

Deputy Ring was in full flight when we suspended proceedings, so I will ask him to resume his contribution.

Deputy Michael Ring

Many of the schemes are being reviewed during the current year. If something is under review, this usually means it will be cut or there is a difficulty in respect of funding. I will hand over to Deputy McGinley who wishes to pose questions on a number of matters and we can then go through the various programmes.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Níl sé ar intinn agam óráid a thabhairt maidir leis na cúrsaí seo mar go mbeidh deis againn sa Dáil, b'fhéidir an tseachtain seo chugainn nó an an tseachtain ina dhiaidh sin, díospóireacht chuimsitheach a bheith againn ar an Ghaeltacht agus ar chúrsaí fostaíochta agus údaráis agus mar sin de. Is dóigh gur ceart dom dul tríd cuid de na ceannteidil seo agus míniú nó breis eolais a fháil faoi céard atá i gceist. Is léir ó na Meastacháin go bhfuil ísliú suntasach ar an alúntas atá curtha ar fáil don Roinn i mbliana, chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le ceantair Gaeltachta. Sílim nach rud maith é sin, go speisialta nuair atá an Ghaeltacht agus an teanga faoi bhrú agus nuair a admhaíonn an straitéis gur mar sin atá an scéal. Ach mar a dúirt mé, is dóigh go mbeidh deis againn é sin a phlé nios iomláine agus níos cuimsithí an tseachtain seo chugainn nó an tseachtain ina dhiaidh sin.

Maidir leis na ceannteidil, ba mhaith liom díriú ar dtús ar bóithre. Feicim go bhfuil titim mhór i mbliana ó €3.142 milliún anuraidh go dtí €950,000 i mbliana. Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil, san am atá thart, dul chun cinn mór déanta maidir le bóithre. Tá dhá chineál bóithre i gceist, ceann acu na bóithre straitéiseacha. Ba scéim an-fhiúntach í sin a fheabhsaigh go mór na bóithre isteach go dtí na ceantair iargúlta Gaeltachta, cuir i gcás ó Ghleann Cholm Cille go dtí an Charraig i gCill Chartha go dtí Na Cealla Beaga. Bóthar straitéiseach í sin a bhfuil obair iontach déanta uirthi. Baineann an cheist atá agamsa don Aire leis na bóithre straitéiseacha agus na bóithre áise. An gclúdaíonn an €950,000 an dá chuid? Freisin, an mbeidh airgead á chur ar fáil sa bhliain reatha le haghaidh bóithre straitéiseacha?

An dara ceannteideal ar mhaith liom díríu isteach air ná scéim na bhfoghlaimeoirí Gaeilge. Tá titim suntasach ansin i mbliana chomh maith, ó €5.593 milliún go dtí €4.8 milliún. Ar ndóigh, is é seo an t-airgead a théann chuig na cúrsaí samhraidh a bhíonn á eagrú sna Gaeltachtaí — na coláistí samhraidh. Ta comharthaí dainséir maidir leo seo i láthair na huaire mar deirtear go bhfuil titim mhór ar an líon daltaí atá ag freastal ar na coláistí agus ar na cúrsaí seo sa bhliain reatha. Tá a fhios agam gur tharraing an Roinn Oideachais siar an deontas anuraidh agus tá ísliú ar an deontas atá ar fáil ó Roinn an Aire i mbliana. D'féadfadh seo tionchar mór agus diúltach a bheith aige ar an teanga, ar chúrsaí gheilleagair agus ar chúrsaí eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta. An bhféadfadh an tAire a dheimhniú go ndéanfaidh sé athscrúdú ar an mhír seo agu gcuirfidh sé rudaí i gceart an bhliain seo chugainn?

Ceannteideal eile ar a chaith mé súil ná na muiroibreacha. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil airgead mór á chaitheamh, agus nílim in éadan sin, ar an ché atá déanta ag Cill Rónáin a bheireann sochar mór do mhuintir Inis Mór agus Oileáin Árainn. Rinneadh an rud céanna ar Oileán Thoraí blianta ó shin agus thug sin cuidiú mór do mhuintir an oileáin agus chuir sé bríomhaireacht agus beocht úr san oileán. Tá mion oibreacha le déanamh fós dos na hoileáin. Cuir i gcás, ar Oileán Gabhla tá soilse le chur ar an ché. Bhí méid míle á chuartú ag Gabhla anuraidh, idir €5,000 do rud amháin agus €10,000 do rud eile agus níl aon áiseanna mar leithris ná aon rud mar sin ann. Nil a fhios agam an bhfuil iarracht istigh le haghaidh iad sin. Ní chosnódh na rudaí seo airgead mór, ach rachadh siad go mór chun sochair don oileán agus do gheilleagar an cheantair sin ó thaobh turasóireachta de. B'fhéidir go bhféadfadh an tAire amharc ar sin chomh maith.

Maidir le Údarás na Gaeltachta, beimid á phlé sin an tseachtain seo chugainn agus beidh mé ábalta níos mó a rá ansin. Labhair an Teachta Ring faoi dílárnú, an bhféadfadh an tAire insint dúinn cén chaoi atá cúrsaí díllárnaithe Fhoras na Gaeilge. Bhí dílárnú le déanamh go dtí an Ghaeltacht ó Thuaidh. An féidir leis an tAire a rá cén cinneadh atá déanta ó bhí sin á phlé againn roimhe seo?

Chairman

I warmly welcome the transfer of certain areas of responsibility relating to the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, from the Department of Justice and Law Reform. This is a very good initiative because I am of the view that it is better that these areas of responsibility should come under the remit of the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. I also welcome the fact that equality, integration and human rights will be the responsibility of the other Minister of State at the Department, Deputy Mary Alexandra White.

In the past, attempts were made to place certain areas of responsibility with particular Departments and the combination of ministries has varied. However, I have always held the view that the areas of responsibility that have been transferred from the Department of Justice and Law Reform were in the wrong place to begin with. The Minister and Ministers of State all nodded their assent when Deputy Ring requested that the committee be supplied with a note on the precise lines of demarcation regarding their areas of responsibility. As Chairman of the committee, I would appreciate it if such a note were provided.

Will the Minister provide an update on the decentralisation programme, particularly as it relates to the section of the Department which deals with the Gaeltacht? In addition, will the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Alexandra White, indicate the position in this regard in respect of the Equality Authority? It is indicated in the Estimate statement that the latter is scheduled to relocate to Roscrea and that, in advance of this, 17 staff have already been located in temporary accommodation in the town. When I served as a Minister of State, I had responsibility for Irish Aid, which was previously known as Development Co-operation Ireland, and I discovered out of the blue one morning that it was to be moved to Limerick.

Deputy Dan Neville

There is nothing wrong with Limerick.

Chairman

There is nothing wrong with Departments moving to fantastic offices in other cities or towns provided there is proper consultation with everyone involved in the first instance.

I am speaking to three sensible people, namely, the Minister and Ministers of State, whom I know well. Some of the decisions taken in respect of decentralisation were botched. At the time, many decisions were made in a crude manner and without proper consultation or an inclusive approach. Many experts have written about this, including former officials. If there is something wrong with the decentralisation process, we should be big enough to say it is not working. I am not being specific about any area but I am conscious that people are coming up and down from Limerick to Dublin, having been summoned to meet Ministers or ambassadors, and that is not working. Equally, rental prices have fallen in Dublin so if there is a need to bring people back to Dublin and into rented accommodation, we should do it.

That is my position. I was a Minister of State when one of the decisions was made. There is nothing wrong with changing our minds provided we are doing the right thing. Decentralisation worked in previous schemes because we consulted people first, asking them where they wanted to go. We have lost valuable expertise in development and have lost corporate memory in many areas because people are in the wrong positions. There is nothing wrong with facing up to this. We should look closely at this and now is the time to do it because of the position with rental properties.

I am not sure there are problems with Roscrea or Mayo. Everyone wants bureaucracy in their own areas, and the Opposition also wanted bureaucracy in their own towns, but people were caught on the hop. It was not a good process but there had been successes before that. This issue has been raised by the committee and it is a legitimate point.

Deputy Pat Carey

I hear Deputy Ring's remarks about providing further information about the roles and responsibilities of the Department. It was only on 1 June that transfer orders became effective so we will be making arrangements to take on the full range of responsibilities and the issue of questions being taken should be clarified in time for our next round of questions.

The rural social scheme will be transferred from the Department to the Department of Social Protection in July as part of the Bill going through the Houses at present. It is expected the unit will remain in Tubbercurry but it will report to the Minister for Social Protection.

Deputy Ring asked about voluntary groups. I am meeting a number of them at present. The three year envelope finishes on 31 December 2010 but in advance of that an evaluation of the programme and the funding for various bodies is being undertaken. It will be transparent, with the groups being contacted and questionnaires being circulated, but Deputy Ring is right that duplication must be addressed. Depending on who we talk to, there are between 23,000 and 25,000 voluntary groups in the country. It is a great testament to the strength of the voluntary movement in Ireland but that creates its own challenges. There is duplication and we will address that. Even in times of plenty it needed to be done, but it is necessary more than ever now. I will provide further updates next week and later this year.

The mass card provision was upheld by the High Court and the appeal against it has gone to the Supreme Court. It is yet to be decided when the case will be heard. I do not want to comment any further on the case.

Three issues are being brought forward. Discussions are ongoing with the Department of Finance on the resources that will be needed for the new authority. Discussions are also under way with the Revenue Commissioners, with 4,000 of the 7,000 registered charities being asked if they consent to having their information transferred to enable the fast-tracking of the establishment of the register. A consultation paper on the reporting by charities is to be issued shortly. There was a useful conference this year and the sector was happy with the plans.

I agree with Deputy Ring about the Leader companies. Since I took over this post I have wanted to come to grips with weaknesses in the operation of the Leader companies. Under the programme there is €450 million of funding available. Even today I met representatives of the sector and I will meet all of the Leader companies' chairmen and chief executives in July to establish what problems exist in the sector. If projects are developed, matching funding is available from the State and the EU, but it is proving difficult to secure matching funding from the banks and the financial institutions. There are smaller institutions that have an ethical base that are working with some of the Leader companies to provide co-funding and I will meet some of them in the next two weeks to see if we can get more engagement from them. I wish the commercial sector and the covered institutions would be more forthcoming but there are difficulties at present.

The Minister of State will talk about the Equality Authority and the bodies under her aegis. The Department has located a significant number of staff in Tubbercurry and they are working satisfactorily. A permanent location elsewhere for the Department has been identified but the Government will review proceeding with that in the context of the broader review of the decentralisation programme next year.

In tandem with that, Deputy McGinley asked about Foras na Gaeilge in Gaoth Dobhair. Five posts have moved to Gaoth Dobhair and a recruitment campaign is under way, with further offers of employment expected to be made shortly through the Public Appointments Service. I will have the figures for those who have taken up offers of employment when I next take questions at Question Time, if not earlier.

Maidir le ceisteanna acmhainní, bóithre agus ceisteanna teanga agus mar sin de, is cinnte nach bfhuil an méid acmhainní againn agus a bhí. Tá laghdú tagtha orthu ach tá, ar lámh amháin, a lán oibre déanta ag an Roinn sa Ghaeltacht agus sna hoileáin. Tá cuid mhór eile le déanamh. Tá stádas na bóithre an-mhaith in áiteanna, ach níl in áiteanna eile. Beimid ag plé na Meastachán don bhliain seo chugainn sna míonna amach romhainn leis an Roinn Airgeadais agus beimid ag iarraidh na méideanna is mó agus is féidir linn a fháil chun leanúint leis na scéimeanna fiúntacha atá ann. Táim cinnte go bhfuil siad fiúntach. Mar is eol dúinn, bhí gá le laghdú 50 cent an duine a ghearradh ar dhaoine sa scéim labhartha Gaeilge i mbliana. Níl a fhios agam nó ní féidir liom a rá cad a tharlóidh don scéim sin an bhliain seo chugainn.

Maidir leis an díospóireacht ghinearálta, beidh seans againn plé le sin an tseachtain seo chugainn nuair a bheidh an Bille a bhaineann le Údarás na Gaeltachta os comhair na Dála. Beidh seans againn Foras na Gaeilge agus rudaí eile a bhaineann leis an teanga go ginearálta a phlé chomh tapaidh agus is féidir leis an choiste seo an tuarascáil ar an straitéis 20 bliain a thabhairt romham. Ba mhaith liom, mar a dúirt mé cheana, go mbeinn in ann é sin a thabhairt faoi bhráid an Rialtais roimh briseadh an tsamhraidh. Má éiríonn liom é sin a dhéanamh, beidh muid in ann tosú ar an straitéis a chur i bhfeidhm go luath sa bhliain pholaitíochta nua.

The Minister of State, Deputy Mary White, will deal with questions on equality issues and the Equality Authority, while the Minister of State with special responsibility for equality disability and mental health issues, Deputy Moloney, will deal with mental health issues.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White

I will address Deputy Ring's question on staffing. I am delighted to be back with my former committee colleagues. This is a great committee and I am sorry that members cannot put piercing questions to me because they are not quite aware of what my functions are in my portfolios. We will have to wait and see if members are advancing next week.

Deputy Michael Ring

That is not in my hands.

Deputy Pat Carey

The Deputy has a good track record.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White

He took Leaders Questions the other day. He asked where the staff being transferred from the headquarters of the Department of Justice and Law Reform to the new Department would be located. Some 38 staff will transfer and be located in Bishop's Square, not Mespil Road. Some 20 staff will be transferred in the coming weeks from the headquarters of the Department of Social Protection to the home of the new Department on Mespil Road. Some 35 civil servants will be deployed in the case of the Equality Authority and 24 in the case of the Equality Tribunal.

The Chairman asked about decentralisation. As members are probably aware, in 2009 the Minister for Justice and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, agreed in principle to a request from the chairman of the Equality Authority to suspend the transfer of staff from Dublin to Roscrea on the grounds of hardship. In some cases, the move would have involved considerable hardship. What struck me was the comment on the corporate memory of those staff members who may be attracted by moving to different area, but the extent of the resultant corporate deficit to individual Departments has not been fully estimated. On the grounds of hardship, further decentralisation did not proceed in the case of the Equality Authority. Departmental officials are to work out on a case by case basis with the CEO whether any further moves are to take place. The overall decentralisation programme review will take place in 2011. The Equality Authority has 16.8 posts assigned in Tipperary and a further 20.5 at its office in Dublin. The CEO operates from both locations. Under the decentralisation programme, the Equality Tribunal is to relocate to Portarlington, County Laois. In advance of the move, ten posts are located in temporary accommodation in Portlaoise, with the remainder of the staff remaining in Dublin.

That is an account of the total numbers of staff and their locations in the two bodies within my remit. I hope I have answered the Chairman's question adequately.

Chairman

Yes. Chuir an Teachta Stanton ceist maidir leis an straitéis. Níl le déanamh ach í a chur os comhair an chomhchoiste. Tá an obair déanta agus an tuarascáil críochnaithe againn. Chomh luath agus a aontaíonn an comhchoiste í, beidh an tuarascáil ag an Aire. Is dóigh liom go mbeidh sí ag an Aire seachtain ón Luan seo chugainn.

I am glad to hear the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White's response to the question on decentralisation. As somebody charged with responsibility for dealing with equality issues, her aim is to treat people properly and fairly. However, not everybody was treated fairly. I appreciate the Minister, Deputy Carey's remarks on the review. We can still get the process of decentralisation right, but we must ensure we involve people in it.

Deputy David Stanton

I apologise for not being present earlier, but I am doing three or four jobs today. I am acting as Whip, as well as everything else.

Recently it was brought to my attention that people could apply locally for a permit to raise funds for a charity. National groups can apply also. In some instances, one could have three charities operating in the one town at the same time. There might, therefore, be a need for co-ordination, as it is not fair to have so much going on at the same time.

I wish to question the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, who is working in four Departments, including the Departments of Education and Skills, Health and Children and Justice and Law Reform. Which is the fourth?

Deputy John Moloney

I am working in the Departments of Health and Children, Justice and Law Reform, Education and Skills and Enterprise, Trade and Innovation.

Deputy David Stanton

Employment.

Deputy John Moloney

I have special responsibility for equality disability and mental health issues. I deal with employment opportunities for people with disabilities, given the fact that we gave a commitment to provide 7,000 jobs for people with disabilities before the end of this year.

Deputy David Stanton

The Minister of State has mentioned that the authority is getting a certain amount of money, the bulk of €8 million. Is there a breakdown of the exact figure? He has also mentioned that he monitors implementation of standards and codes of practice. There is an issue about residential units, in particular, units for children. I acknowledge that the matter was raised at Question Time in the Dáil. There is also the issue of the cost of implementing national inspection standards where children in residential units are concerned. I wonder if this issue comes within the remit of this or other committee. What is the estimated cost of implementing the standards? We know there are between 300 and 400 children involved, many of whom are in units where no inspections have been carried out. Vulnerable children with disabilities are in institutions where no inspections have been carried out. A person with a disability is vulnerable and children with disabilities are especially vulnerable. I cannot understand, therefore, why this is issue not being progressed. I understand the standards are available. Is it a matter of money? As we are aware, many children suffer all forms of abuse. I appeal, therefore, to the Minister of State to work on this urgent issue because we do not want any more scandals at this time. I do not want anyone to come forward and say this happened in 2010. We know from earlier inspections that standards are not being met.

I do not know if this or another committee deals with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Disabled Persons. I assume the issue comes under the heading of equality. If this committee is responsible, is it also the case that it deals with the Mental Capacity Bill or will the legislation be taken by the Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights? Given that it deals with disability, equality and legal issues, it is not certain which select committee has responsibility for it.

Having asked questions previously about multiannual funding for services for people with disabilities, I am given to understand that between 2005 and 2009 approximately €900 million was allocated for this purpose. I have been unable to trace this funding and asked time and again whether it was ever made available. If it was spent, will the Minister of State provide a breakdown of the services on which it was expended? As it was allocated across Departments and agencies, it is difficult to track such expenditure. I am aware, however, that the Comptroller and Auditor General raised issues about the Health Service Executive spending funding for disability services in other areas. Will the Minister of State try to track down this money and provide a note outlining whether it was ever spent and, if so, on what? For the past two years I have been trying in vain to track this large sum of money which was earmarked for services for people with disabilities.

The output targets include a review of the Disability Act. This legislation, the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act, the carers' strategy and the advocacy strategy are all dead in the water. Does the Minister of State have plans, given his Department's focus on policy and co-ordination of the implementation of policies, to progress any of these Acts or strategies? The entire strategy which was excellent appears to have stalled because its main elements have not proceeded. Is it possible to kick-start it again? I again apologise for arriving late to the meeting.

Chairman

I appreciate there are pressures on many Deputies today. I noticed Deputy Stanton was acting as Whip in the Dáil in the earlier division. As a former Whip, the Deputy and I interacted well. If the Minister and Ministers of State are amenable, we will park the questions until Deputy Ring has put his questions.

Deputy Michael Ring

On the national drugs strategy, what is the up-to-date position on head shops? A new drug known as Whack is on the market. While I am aware that the House will shortly deal with legislation on this issue, we need to enact legislation to deal with new substances being brought onto the market. Already one person has died as a result of the products sold in head shops.

Will alcohol be included in the national drugs strategy? I ask the Minister to update the select committee on the matter.

I note a substantial sum has been allocated for the rural social scheme, responsibility for which I understood would be transferred to the Department for Social Protection. If that is the case, why has funding for the scheme been allocated to the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs this year?

A review has been carried out of the CLÁR programme and various bodies and organisations. I hope organisations such as the Western Development Commission will still be in place following the review. What is the position on the future of the commission? Will it be abolished?

The Minister responded to questions from Deputy McGinley on the Údarás na Gaeltachta (Amendment) Bill which will come before the Dáil in the coming weeks.

I have raised staff concerns about decentralisation. Every year we hear the Charitable Donations and Bequests Bill will be incorporated with the Charities Bill. When will this be done?

What programmes and schemes will be worst hit by cuts in funding? Is a review being conducted to ascertain if various agencies and bodies can be merged? It is not necessary to reduce staffing levels. As the Minister noted, there are 23,000 voluntary groups and while they do substantial work, there is also considerable duplication. Does he have any plans to address this issue?

Chairman

The main issues raised were as follows: inspections of children's institutions; the UN Declaration of Rights for Disabled People; the Mental Capacity Bill; multiannual funding for services for people with disabilities; the national drugs strategy; head shops, the position on alcohol; the rural social scheme and other schemes; the future of the Western Development Commission; areas in which funding may be reduced; charities legislation; and programmes and agencies. The Minister and Ministers of State may respond as they see fit.

Deputy Pat Carey

I will commence with the issues raised by Deputy Ring. The draft national drugs strategy for the period 2009 to 2016 is in place. Work is well advanced on the alcohol aspect of the strategy and I am confident it will be ready by the target date of the end of the year. As a result, we will have a single alcohol and substance misuse strategy. A number of local pilot schemes are under way and I look forward to seeing the results.

Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (Psychoactive Substances) Bill 2010 concluded in the Seanad today and Committee Stage will be taken tomorrow. The legislation will come before the Dáil next week, as will the Údarás na Gaeltachta (Amendment) Bill. On the issue of the substances sold in head shops, the reason we have been able to move quickly on the Criminal Justice (Psychoactive Substances) Bill is that the Ministers for Justice and Law Reform and Health and Children notified Brussels that they were invoking the emergency procedure to introduce a further ban. The Commission has approved the Ministers' proposal and Whack is one of the substances which will be banned as soon as the Bill is enacted.

Work is being done on one or two amendments. The issue of paraphernalia is proving difficult to address in that syringes and needles which are used by diabetics and in needle exchange programmes and so forth are among the paraphernalia it is proposed to ban. The Minister for Justice and Law Reform is examining ways to circumvent this problem.

While the sale of cannabis seeds is not banned in the proposed legislation, the propagation of seeds is banned. One cannot grow plants unless one has soil, heat and water. The important aspect in this regard is that the Garda Síochána will have significant powers, for example, in seeking a prohibition order. The owners of heads shop must justify and prove the products they are selling are legal.

Responsibility for the rural social scheme will transfer to the Department of Social Protection as soon as the Social Welfare Bill has been passed in both Houses. The money has been allocated to my Department because responsibility for the scheme has not yet been officially transferred. Once the transfer takes place, funding for the scheme will transfer to the Department in the same way as budget heads from other Departments have transferred to my Department.

On Deputy Ring's question on what programmes will be worst affected by budget reductions, the short answer is that I do not know. However, as I have indicated, at this time of scarce resources I aim to protect the most vulnerable and marginalised. If that means that funding to other groups needs to be significantly reduced or discontinued, we will need to do that. I will not concede that we need to do anything of a dramatic nature at this stage.

On the rationalisation of agencies and bodies, even the bodies themselves are coming together outside our remit. Some of the bigger organisations have initiated their own discussions about coming together. All members will be aware that there have been some difficulties about bringing the community development projects into some kind of cohesive entity. The staff in the unit are working with those bodies and everybody has until the end of this month to sign up to a new arrangement. The status quo is not an option. A stand-alone arrangement is not an option. Reduced structures must be achieved and financial savings need to be achieved. There need not necessarily be a reduction in the amount of resources available for really good community development work. All of us are involved with groups and we know what it is like. Some of them are doing extremely good work and some of them are finding it difficult, to put it charitably. I would envisage that by the end of the year we will have fewer structures but more effective delivery of community development programmes. I met representatives of the Council of the West earlier and I met representatives of the Western Development Commission approximately two or three weeks ago. As members are aware, the McCarthy report proposed that the Western Development Commission would be subsumed into other organisations. The Government has not begun to examine how that might take place or if it will take place. It will be some time before that will be done.

On the commission for charitable bequests significant progress is being made. I recently met representatives of a number of charities and the philanthropic sector. While considerable work is going on quietly in the background, there is now a view that more high-profile discussions might usefully take place and that will be in hand. When I introduced the Charities Bill, I said that equivalent legislation in the UK took four years to be fully implemented. We are just through the first year of it and I believe we are further ahead than the neighbouring jurisdiction was with its legislation. While there was good co-operation with the Revenue Commissioners, if we can get over data protection issues we will be able to move quickly to set up the register. The establishment of the authority and so on will be subject to resourcing. In the meantime charitable bequests and so on will be treated in the usual way we are ready to proceed in a comprehensive manner.

Deputy John Moloney

Deputy Ring asked a question regarding the funding of mental health. Clearly it is not a matter for the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. As always there is a notion that very little is happening on mental health. When I was appointed to the Department two years ago the first issue was to secure multiannual capital programme. That is now in place. We get €50 million per year provided we sell the properties. The second issue was the appointment of a director to drive the reforms in mental health. The third issue was to establish a programme setting targets for suicide reduction.

The capital programme is now in place. The usual wording of "ring fencing" now becomes real. The real test of all these things is what is happening on the ground. Even though the notion is that very little is happening on the ground, I am pleased to be able to inform the committee about the capital programme for this year. Last month I was in Mullingar laying the foundation stone for a 100-bed unit. That will address the inspector's report in regard to St. Loman's Hospital. We gave a commitment last year on Clonmel. Two months ago I signed the contract. That is to deal with the regular complaints in the inspector's report on hospitals. The foundation stone was laid in Letterkenny three months ago and builders are on site to develop the new acute psychiatric services facility there. My proudest boast is that for the first time since 1815, there will be no further patient intake into Grangegorman.

I am also pleased that despite the public service moratorium we have received approval for 100 nurses, 40 of whom will go to open the new facility in Blanchardstown. This month we will apply for planning permission for a new acute psychiatric unit in Beaumont Hospital. All of those are in process and funding for Beaumont has also been secured.

While not in the area of mental health, in the area of intellectual disability, the commitment to open the ten bungalows in Knockamann has now gone through and we are negotiating. We have approval for the staff there and we are just going through the process of recruitment, which began in the past fortnight.

The other main issue in mental health has been providing for a new central mental hospital. Some time ago I made it clear to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children that we are back in September to meet Cabinet to discuss putting together a PPP for that project. I fully appreciate Deputy Ring's concern about mental health. However, mental health is not all about buildings or staffing levels. The biggest single challenge in the mental health area is the level of suicide. I compliment Deputy Neville on all the work he has done over the years and continues to do. He works with me and I am pleased to say we have a very good relationship in that area.

However, the real challenge is to turn people's attention to the need to develop an attitude that mental health is the same as physical ill health. I am pleased to say that we have put together the sea change programme in an effort to deal with the stigma associated with mental health. There is evidence that the main problem is that people will not present for support. I acknowledge this — the Chairman led it off by saying that if we have made mistakes we should say we have made mistakes. If we have policies that are not working, let us say so. Long ago I was advised not to hype up the mental health issue because in the event that people started looking for services they might not be available. I take the opposite view. Just as with cancer and heart disease, once the demand has been established, resources will be found to meet that demand. The challenge will be to provide funding for early intervention.

I am pleased that between September and December I will be going to every county town, bringing with me professionals from the field. I will be inviting people to town hall meetings to address that need. I take the point that funding needs to be provided. At the same time people like Dr. Tony Bates and many others will say that unless we deal with the stigma we will go nowhere. I will put my hands up and say to this committee that unless we secure the funding for early intervention, there will be little point in talking about what I am talking about. Already Headstrong is in the field with its Jigsaw services in Galway, Ballymun, Roscommon and County Meath. The challenge will be to secure the funding to provide Jigsaw in every county town before 2016. I am pleased to say I will be going before Cabinet in the next two months to make proposals as to how we can deal with that. That is the real challenge.

I will turn to the questions raised by Deputy Stanton. While some of the issues are for the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children, it is important to give a quick answer here, particularly on the issue of residential units, standards, inspections, the mental capacity Bill, the multiannual funding and whether the whole issue is dead in the water. I know the question the Deputy keeps asking and I fail to keep answering, that is by way of where the funding committed then was. We are all practising politicians and I know when we say we are doing something people find it very hard to buy into that far enough to see an end product. I refer to the funding set aside under the national disability strategy, for instance, by way of the commitments given in the renewed programme for Government. We need to test this out to ascertain whether we are protecting those with disability. It is coincidental that we are talking about my responsibility for the National Disability Authority. I recall the Deputy mentioning this at various times and I will give credit in this area. It is very important that I show where the funding set aside has gone.

I sought a meeting with representatives of the National Disability Authority approximately three months ago. I went to the meeting to clarify the position on the funding set aside under the national disability strategy, the renewed programme for Government and the commitment made on employment for people with disabilities before the end of 2010, as we had given a figure of 7,000. More important is the issue of access, as well as the housing strategy.

This is not to reinvent the wheel but it is very important to deal with this disability area. Unlike the mental health side, which has A Vision for Change, a seven to ten year programme, we do not have a similar programme in the disability area. I questioned Mr. Peter McKevitt, the chair, the CEO Ms Siobhán Barron and the board, which gave its agreement on this. On that day a board member asked what the point was of reinventing the wheel, and I can understand that thought, but it is not reinventing the wheel.

We will work on the issue in the period between July and September and we will look to put together a three-year programme of how we can commit to deliver what we have already said we would do in the national disability strategy. That must take into account the level of funding provided and the process cannot be implemented without the funding. We cannot talk about strategy unless it is put into a three-year programme and such a programme will prioritise what has been agreed to and committed to by the Government. If elements cannot be delivered I will outline them.

By September or October we will come forward with a strategy to implement what is committed to in the national disability strategy. Next Wednesday the chairman and the CEO will come in to work out the details. What I am stating is public knowledge and people with doubts can check with the National Disability Authority.

On the mental capacity Bill, speaking in Killarney recently I gave a commitment that the Bill would be published this session. I heard the Taoiseach reaffirm that in the House yesterday. I spoke last week to The Irish Times and wanted to be up-front on the issue. I felt with the pressure on the legislative programme, it may not have been published so I was pleased to hear the Taoiseach say yesterday that it would happen.

One of the greatest issues that has been exposed is the matter of non-inspections. There is no point in dressing that up or in trying to cosy up some answer. We were exposed to the facts and we have discussed inspections in the various centres and congregated settings. The fact that we have 4,000 people within the congregated setting strategy is something that we must work on. I do not mean that this should be consigned to the future. Last year the Deputy raised the matter at a committee or a Disability Federation of Ireland presentation. I asked Mr. Pat Dolan, who is part of the HSE in the west, to bring forward a report. I know with reports there is a tendency to feel that we are putting things on the long finger but I got that report last week and will publish it as soon as I get a chance to read it. It will show how to commit to removing people from the congregated settings.

I have visited a few of these facilities but not all and I have seen excellent levels of care. Cregg House in Sligo is a top class facility but unfortunately it exemplifies a location which belongs to a different age. I visited the Delta centre in Carlow last Monday and have seen at first hand what can be done to bring about a greater presentation in a modern setting for people with disabilities and this is only correct. Within the next four to six weeks we will publish that report and there is a matter of bringing about commitments.

I met with another Minister of State, Deputy Michael Finneran, along with officials, and we will provide care support while the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will find housing support. On a note of caution, we have all learned from the mistakes of the UK, particularly in the movement from congregated settings. Unless the HSE commits to each person and patient, there is no point in going that down that road.

I am loath to say that this is happening as members can ask me for evidence. The congregated settings report will be published in the next number of weeks as I already have a copy of it. The mental capacity bill will be published this session. Members may argue that I have been two years looking for clarification, which I need, but the work is being done with the National Disability Authority. It is committed to ensuring that what has been provided will remain. The way to drive this on will be with the three-year programme.

I have never believed we could provide the 7,000 jobs before 2010. I never wanted to extend the programme like the mental health issue on A Vision for Change but I will hold my hands up in saying this will not happen before the end of 2010. At present the target is 4,000 or 5,000. We intend to provide provincial presentations which will try to encourage employers of people with disabilities to speak about the issue. The biggest problem seems to be red tape, with a fear of losing a medical card or transferring to employment but having it not work out. There is a fear that means tests and validations would need to be carried out again. We need a package of support for employer and employee and we are working on that with the Department of Employment, Trade and Innovation Secretary General Seán Gorman and his officials. We are meeting with people in that area, such as Ms Caroline Casey from Kanchi, who we are all aware of, and Sarah Togher from County Mayo, who is involved with Irish Association of Supported Employment. The process is ongoing and has not been put on the long finger. I hope to have some definite proposals for the committee by September.

Chairman

I have some experience of the issue raised by Deputy Stanton. Has the UN declaration of the rights of people with disabilities come to the Department of Health and Children? Traditionally it was under the remit of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and there was a turf war between that Department and the Department of Foreign Affairs. Does it come under the remit of the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White? It is the UN declaration of the rights of people with disabilities.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White

Ireland was one of the first countries to sign up that subject to ratification. I have no date yet but it is the Government's intention to ratify this as quickly as possible, taking into account the need to ensure all necessary requirements under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities are being met. There is an interdepartmental committee established by the Department of Justice and Law Reform to advise on and monitor the legislative and administrative actions required to enable the State to ratify it. It has developed a work programme which is being actively addressed by Departments.

The Disability Act 2005, underpinned by the national disability strategy, meets a considerable portion of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities requirements. The mental capacity Bill which has been mentioned, due for publication this session as the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, has said, forms an important part of what is required to ratify the convention. This is the responsibility of the Department of Justice and Law Reform and work on implementation of the various other provisions in the convention, which are extensive, continues in the other Departments. That sounds like putting it on the long finger but it is intended to act on this as soon as possible.

Deputy David Stanton

The brief for equality and disability has moved from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the Department of Health and Children. Does that mean the responsibility for the UN convention has also moved across? An optional protocol must also be dealt with.

I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, for the work he is doing and I am very aware of the effort he is putting into this very important area. There is an issue regarding standards and inspections, especially with children in residential facilities and those with intellectual disabilities. I am told the Irish Human Rights Commission has been very strong in advocating the human rights of people with intellectual disabilities. Is that a stumbling block in finally ratifying the convention? Anybody can sign it but ratification is important. Ireland might have been one of the first countries to sign the convention but it will be one of the last to ratify it.

Would it be possible for the Minister to send the committee a note indicating what else needs to be done? We know the mental capacity Bill needs to be introduced and passed. I was under the impression that this legislation would be published before the summer recess. However, it appears that it will probably be published during the recess, perhaps as late as September. Perhaps the Minister can indicate when it will actually be published. Are there any other matters outstanding which must be dealt with before we can finally ratify the convention? I understand an issue has also arisen in the context of the rights of children in residential care and those who are in the care of the State but who are not subject to inspections.

Deputy Pat Carey

We will prepare a note for members in which we will detail the specific functions, heads of division, etc., that have been transferred to the Department in order that they can make direct contact with the relevant officials.

Chairman

That is fine. I thank Deputy Stanton for raising this matter, which is fundamentally important. Effectively, the UN convention sets an extremely high standard. Ireland has a very proud reputation at the UN and as a former Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, my experience has been that said Department has taken a very enlightened view in the context of Ireland's position on dealing with and debating many of these issues at UN level. However, the Department of Justice and Law Reform has taken a quite conservative and restrictive view. I suppose the latter perceived its remit as ensuring that we did not open up the position in respect of these rights too much, thereby making the system overly liberal. A disparity existed in respect of the approaches of the two Departments.

I hope the Minister and Ministers of State will have responsibility in respect of this matter because that would lead to better cohesion between their Department and the Department of Foreign Affairs. This is an extremely important matter and I would welcome it if the Minister's note included information in respect of it.

Deputy Pat Carey

We will arrange that.

Deputy John Moloney

Being one of the first countries to sign up to a convention does not mean a great deal. There is nothing about which we should be concerned because there is nothing radical in the convention. In simple terms, we are talking about mental capacity and it is clear that we should have taken action in respect of this in order to protect patients and their families. There will now be separate ministries which will deal with disability and mental health and equality, respectively. In the context of mental capacity, it is clear that we must pass legislation in order that we can ratify the UN convention and there must also be clarity in respect of the other issues outstanding.

One of the greatest challenges we face revolves around the notion of inspections. This matter cannot be placed on the long finger. I have no difficulty in stating that it was not until this matter was brought to my attention that I became aware of it. I would never have thought we would need to be concerned with regard to the abuse of children, particularly those who are disabled. This is a matter of major concern and priority must be given to it. At the conference held in Killarney, I made the point that any funding we can secure in respect of redress should be used to compensate children with disabilities who were in certain institutions and who were abused. I have since put this proposal to the Government.

Chairman

I thank the Minister and Ministers of State for being so frank and honest in their responses to members' questions. I particularly thank the Minister, Deputy Carey, with whom we have also had interaction in respect of the legislation relating to head shops. The committee put its views on that matter to him and to the other Ministers involved. I thank the Minister and Ministers of State and their officials for attending.