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Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 21 Jul 1993

SECTION 36.

Question proposed: "That section 36 stand part of the Bill."

: I have a brief comment to make on this curious section. On reading it one will find it awkwardly put together. It basically sets up an elaborate procedure for second guessing some of the decisions the board of the company may make. The section makes the point that Deputy Noonan, myself and others made earlier about the tension existing between the two functions of this company.

I wish the Minister of State, the chief executive and the board well. If they ever have to apply this section, there will be a lot of midnight oil burnt, ice packs applied to foreheads and much agonising over decisions that will have to be made. This section tries awkwardly to resolve the question of the conflict of interest between the two functions of the company. I wish the best of luck to the unfortunates who will have to apply the section. It should not be in the Bill, but that is an argument we have already had in relation to earlier sections.

: It is unusual that when the board of a company proposes to make a decision, the chief executive can take steps which, in effect, will ensure that it is never implemented. There is a serious conflict here, which was referred to in the earlier debate. I expressed it as the conflict between administrative or executive action on the one part and regulatory action on the other. It is unsatisfactory that the same body should be trying to carry out both functions. We have such an appalling proliferation of State boards and quangos of every kind that I do not want to suggest that we should have two here instead of one. The regulatory aspect should be retained by the Minister and the Department. This section may have the effect of retaining it but it is a hamfisted way of doing it, to say the least, and it is obviously going to cause friction within the company. If there are conflicts or friction on these matters between the chief executive, who is obviously intended to be the Minister's man, and the board of the company, they will flow over into other more commercial matters and may sour relationships within the company in matters which have nothing to do with safety.

Between now and Report Stage, could the Minister of State and the Department have a look at this section? It is ponderous in its provisions and full of potential friction that ideally should be avoided. Would they consider the basic question of how one separates the regulatory from the executive function and see if it could be done in a way that is more streamlined and transparent?

: Deputies Dukes and O'Malley are taking this section out of context. I thought we might have been commended for ensuring that where there was a conflict there was a clear line of command which would ensure that the Minister would ultimately get the report and would be the one responsible to make the final decision.

There is no need for me to emphasise the commitment to safety on the part of the Minister, the Department and ANSO staff. This section is a further emphasis of our determination that not alone will we adhere to the highest standards, but will be seen to adhere to those standards. Section 36 provides the board, the staff, the Minister and the public with the assurance that the ultimate accountability for safety standards, especially where there is a doubt or disagreement, rests with the Minister. We all hope and confidently expect that there will be little disagreement between the board and its experts. However, if such does happen, and it may happen, it is essential that there is a set framework within which the matter can be rationally and quickly resolved and the decisions arrived at.

I do not see the section as in any way raising doubts about the board or indeed, the staff. The section states:

Before making a decision in relation to or affecting technical or safety standards in relation to aircraft or air navigation or otherwise affecting or likely to affect the safety of civil aviation, the directors of the company shall obtain and consider the opinion of the Chief Executive in relation to the matter to be decided.

We are covering the safety and technical aspects only. A board who takes a decision on those aspects will have to get the opinion of the chief executive, who will be a competent person, with backup professional support available from within his own staff.

If there is a doubt, then the onus is on the Chairman to provide a report to the Minister, who would take the final decision. It is important to emphasise that where there is any doubt about safety or technical issues, there is a clearly defined chain of command to resolve these matters.

It is a good section and I hope the committee can agree to it. I will have another look at the regulatory position within this Authority and if there is any need for change, I will reconsider it for Report Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
Section 37 agreed to.
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