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Select Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022

Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Revised)

On the latest public health guidance relating to the lifting of Covid-19 restrictions, the Ceann Comhairle has advised that committee members and witnesses have the option of attending meetings in the relevant committee rooms or participating from the Leinster House complex via Microsoft Teams. Room capacity will continue to be reduced in the short term until all microphones and seating can be returned. It is important also to note that masks should continue to be worn by those present when not addressing the committee. We have received no apologies, which is good.

We are going to examine the 2022 Estimates for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I welcome to the meeting the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Varadkar, who is participating online from within the Leinster House complex. We appreciate the comprehensive briefing materials that have been provided by the Minister's Department for today's discussion. Those materials have been circulated to all committee members.

Before we start I want to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references that witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they make to the committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse that privilege. It is my duty as Chair to ensure privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I now invite the Minister to make a brief opening statement on the Revised Estimates, which have been circulated to all members.

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I am pleased to discuss my Department’s 2022 Estimate with the committee this morning. I understand that the secretariat has been provided with a briefing relating to the detail of the Estimate, which hopefully has been of assistance to members.

Before outlining some of the specifics of our Estimate and plans for this year, I would like to say a few words about where we now find ourselves, not least in terms of the battle against Covid-19. Undoubtedly, the past two years have been traumatic for large parts of our society. The roller coaster of the pandemic and the impact of the various waves of the virus is something that none of us had ever experienced before. As a nation we have shown solidarity and resilience and have learned to adapt to the various challenges.

Despite the damage that has been inflicted by the pandemic, most sectors of the economy are now recovering well, with strong growth in domestic demand and high numbers of workers returning to employment. It is worthwhile to note that the unemployment rate for all persons, including those on the pandemic unemployment payment, was 7.5% in December 2021, down from 21.7% in December 2020. Since the start of the pandemic we have aimed to minimise the loss of life, protect the health service and save as many jobs and businesses as possible. The Government was not found wanting when it came to supporting the economy and jobs, providing a robust and sustained multi-billion euro package that compares well internationally. The employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, has been extended even though many other countries have ended their furlough schemes. The rules for the Covid restrictions support scheme, CRSS, have been relaxed and tax warehousing has been extended.

Turning to my own Department, the 2022 Estimate provides us with a gross allocation of €903.8 million, €358.8 million in current and €545 million in capital funding. Excluding the significant one-off Covid funding provided in 2021, mainly through the restart grants, our core funding has been increased by more than €100 million this year. In addition, we will also have a further €79.66 million in capital carryover and a further €80 to 90 million in own resource income for use this year. This additional funding will allow us to increase the core allocation to Intertrade Ireland by €1.2 million to enable it to launch new initiatives including a trade information service and a supply chain initiative.

Our enterprise agencies continue to help sustain and grow our enterprise base. The net increase of 31,736 new jobs created by the clients of Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and the local enterprise offices, LEOs, in 2021 was remarkable, considering the significant headwinds of Covid and Brexit. In fact, Enterprise Ireland announced that Irish exporting companies recorded their highest ever jobs gain in 2021, while IDA Ireland also announced the highest ever jobs gain in the multinational sector in a single year. We are well on our way to reaching the Government target of having 2.5 million at work in Ireland in 2024. I have spoken before about my belief in the ability of the economy to bounce back strongly and although these figures do not capture the experience for all Irish businesses, they are certainly grounds for hope and positivity. I am, however, very aware that some sectors continue to suffer and struggle, especially tourism, hospitality, aviation, entertainment and the arts. Core capital funding to IDA Ireland next year is being increased by €26.5 million. This will allow the authority to expand its regional property programme which continues to provide property solutions in locations across the country. It is worth saying that more than half of all investments won by the authority in 2021 went to locations outside of Dublin. There was foreign direct investment-related employment growth in all regions.

Some €7 million will be provided to progress the expansion of the National Institute for Bioprocessing Research and Training to promote biopharmaceutical investment in Ireland. Additional funding of €4 million is being allocated to the advanced manufacturing centre in Limerick, which will provide a state-of-the-art facility for both indigenous and multinational companies to develop new technologies.

The IDA Ireland grants budget is also being increased by €5.5 million. Core capital funding to Enterprise Ireland is being increased by €31 million. This includes allocations to the climate enterprise action fund and the digital transition fund, which I will return to later in my contribution. Funding is being provided for further calls of the regional enterprise development fund and the online retail scheme.

Last year, in excess of 7,400 new jobs were created by LEO clients, which is an increase of 3,000. The additional €2 million in core capital funding for the LEOs will be targeted at providing increased training and related supports to assist SMEs, particularly in the areas of climate change and digitalisation.

Balanced regional development will continue to be a focus for us this year. The new regional enterprise plans, due to be published shortly, will identify growth opportunities and strengthen collaboration between local stakeholders to promote job creation.

The plans build on the core activities of IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, the LEOs and other State bodies.

In addition to existing streams of funding, the new plans will benefit from funding under the European Regional Development Fund, ERDF. The disruptive technologies innovation fund, which stimulates the development and commercialisation of groundbreaking technologies, will receive an additional €35 million to allow for a further call this year.

Other initiatives being funded from the Department's core capital allocation include an increase of €3 million for the European Space Agency programme, in line with the commitment under the national development plan, Project Ireland 2040.

The Revised Estimate has also allocated discrete capital funding of €17 million for Covid measures this year. This allocation, together with the capital carryover of €79.66 million, essentially means that almost €100 million is available to respond to Covid-19 in 2022. The Covid credit guarantee scheme, for example, has been allocated €45 million to meet any claims against the guarantee this year. Further funding is being provided to other Covid measures such as the sustaining enterprise and accelerated recovery funds and the Covid products scheme.

While coping with Covid, many businesses have also had to continue to prepare for and deal with Brexit. The Department and its agencies continue to assist businesses in those sectors most impacted. The additional funding provided in the 2022 Revised Estimate, including funding secured from the Brexit adjustment fund, will ensure that targeted measures, such as the Enterprise Ireland food transformation scheme and the Brexit impact loan scheme, can continue to be accessed by businesses.

The 2022 Estimate also increased our current funding for this year by more than €13 million. The additional funding will allow for extra resources to be provided to the Department's regulatory bodies and enterprise agencies. In particular, increased funding will be provided to the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, to allow them to recruit additional staff and meet the increasing demands for their services.

The budget of the new Corporate Enforcement Authority is being increased to ensure that it has the requisite resources to carry out its role as a robust, statutory and independent agency.

Additional current funding is also being provided to the IDA to promote and market Ireland for the purposes of FDI.

While, understandably, Brexit and Covid have been our focus in recent times, the challenges of climate change and digitalisation are also important and will be even more so in the future. The challenge of digitalisation and the imperative for businesses to embrace digital technologies is crucial to our post-pandemic economic recovery. To boost the uptake of digital technology in enterprises, we have set up the digital transition fund as part of our national recovery and resilience plan. This comprises €85 million in multi-annual funding which will run to 2026. The €10 million in funding being provided to the fund in the Revised Estimate this year will be targeted at increasing digitalisation of all businesses across products, processes, supply chains and business models.

Separately, €3 million will be provided to establish Ireland's European digital innovation hubs as part of a Europe-wide network. These hubs will be designed to make digital technology more readily available to SMEs and to provide advice, expertise and opportunities to experiment with technologies such as cybersecurity, AI and high-performance computing.

Under the allocation to Enterprise Ireland, €10 million is being provided to the climate enterprise action fund to assist Irish companies to build the capabilities required to deliver sustainable products, services and business models. This €10 million will also go towards the development of a carbon reduction fund, which will be aimed at encouraging manufacturing enterprises to engage actively in green research, development and innovation. The Climate Toolkit 4 Business website is now live, providing businesses with a tailored assessment of their carbon footprint. The kit was designed specifically to provide businesses, particularly small businesses, with an easy-to-use carbon calculator and generates an action plan specific to the business to help it to get activated in carbon reduction.

Before I finish, I wish to mention briefly some other items on my agenda for 2022. Over the coming months I will take the lead on behalf of the Government in creating five new workers' rights. These are as follows: a new public holiday; the right to request remote, home or hybrid working to complement the new right to disconnect; new redundancy rights for people laid off during the pandemic and subsequently made redundant; statutory sick pay; and the protection of tips and gratuities. With the help of members present, I hope these will all be in place by autumn, certainly by this year. We will also make progress towards a living wage for Ireland and universal occupational pension coverage for all workers through auto-enrolment.

I hope the foregoing gives an outline of my Department's 2022 Revised Estimate and a flavour of our plans for this year. I look forward to discussing the Estimate with the committee and answering members' questions.

I now invite members to discuss the Revised Estimate with the Minister. I remind members who are attending remotely to put up their hands and those who are in the committee room to indicate to me. We have a rota system in place, as members will be aware. The first group is the Fine Gael group, which has 14 minutes. I call on Deputy Bruton first, to be followed by Deputy Stanton, who is here in the committee room.

I will let Deputy Stanton go first since he is there.

I welcome the Minister and his officials to the meeting. I have a few questions.

Covid supports have been extremely welcome for businesses. I have engaged with quite a number of businesses that have said they would have gone under without them. What is the plan to withdraw Covid supports in 2022? Will the enterprise agencies continue to support companies throughout 2022? Obviously, these supports cannot keep going forever.

According to the Minister, IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and the LEOs have performed very well on job creation in the past year. Are there plans to improve that further next year? What are the challenges the Minister sees coming down the track? The industry seems to have weathered Brexit and Covid pretty well to date. People have been talking about labour shortages and inflation. Has any thought been given to trying to attract some of our diaspora but who might want to come back and could assist our workforce here? Does that come under the Minister's remit?

In the agrifood sector, €70 million in funding under the capital investment scheme was announced in November to respond to Brexit. There was €100 million in total announced. Is there to be a call too and, if so, when will it happen? Will it be for more than the €30 million available in 2022?

An issue many of us are interested in is the Government policy to rejuvenate towns and town centres, especially rural towns such as, in my constituency, the town of Youghal, which the Minister is familiar with and which is very much on the margins. What is the Department's and the State agencies' view on targeting such towns and visiting them to see what land is available? IDA Ireland is getting a big increase in its capital expenditure for property, I assume for purchase, in order that advance factories and facilities might be available. In my region the Construction Industry Federation is concerned about what it sees as the lack of property, advance factories and so on that people could be invited to use.

Another issue, which might have come up at our meeting last week, when Mr. Martin Shanahan was before us, is remote working hubs and, beyond that, remote working spaces in order that people would not have to travel long distances. We are talking about scaling that up to a higher level than just hot desks. Has any work been done on that?

Those are some of the questions I wanted to ask. Overall, the impression I get from businesses out there is that things are going well. IDA Ireland is in a league of its own.

The Covid supports specifically for business are being phased out. The CRSS, which is the weekly grant for businesses that are closed, is effectively gone now because there are no businesses closed. The EWSS is being phased out at the moment for a lot of businesses such as in retail, construction, manufacturing and the services sector. For them it will end at the end of April. For those sectors that were hit by the 8 p.m. rule - hospitality and entertainment, for example - it will run until the end of May. Tax warehousing runs until April, although the Minister for Finance is looking at the possibility of extending that. The concessionary 9% VAT rate runs until August. After that, we are back to just the traditional supports previously provided through Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and LEOs.

The remit of local enterprise offices has slightly changed in that traditionally they would have only assisted businesses with ten or fewer employees. That has now been changed so that they can assist businesses with more than ten employees, but there can be a complication in that some EU state aid rules do not allow us to grant aid businesses with more than ten employees. As a general policy, LEOs will now be able to assist slightly larger businesses.

In terms of challenges, Brexit and Covid are not gone away yet. I do not think it will happen, but we always have to be wise to the risk of a further serious wave of Covid that might result in restrictions being imposed, so we have to bear in mind that possibility. As Deputies will be very aware, Brexit is still playing out and the final trade arrangements between Britain and Ireland and between Britain and the EU are not yet resolved, nor are some of the issues around the protocol.

As the Deputy mentioned, labour shortages are definitely a major issue in the economy at the moment. Almost every employer in almost every sector tells me that they now struggle to find staff. The unwinding of the PUP and EWSS might ease the situation, but also the other issue is work permits. We might get back to that later, but we are trying to deal with the very significant backlog that has developed because of a surge in applications for work permits and rising costs, both of which are not under the control of the Government. Rising energy costs are hitting businesses just as they are hitting households. On rising insurance costs, people know the work we are doing through the Action Plan for Insurance Reform to try and get employers' liability, EL, and public liability, PL, down in particular. We got good results in motor insurance, but we are not yet seeing EL and PL insurance costs coming down.

On the agrifood scheme, €70 million of the €100 million has been allocated to businesses around the country to help them to essentially diversify into markets other than the UK and to move up the value chain with the food products they produce. We have €30 million that is not yet allocated, but we will allocate that this year. We will do a further call for that €30 million, in conjunction with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, again encouraging food producers to essentially invest capital to modernise their plant, become more sustainable environmentally and produce products that are higher up the value chain.

In terms of the towns, every town is different, so every town needs its own plan, but we are helping with the remote working hubs. We do not fund them all through Enterprise Ireland; others are funded through the Department of Rural and Community Development under the Minister, Deputy Humphreys. There is a lot of them now - 150 or so - and we think there will be 400 by the end of the year. Connectedhubs.ie is a very good website to take a look at and see where the hubs are and how easy it is to book a hot desk almost anywhere in the country if someone needs one. We see ourselves continuing to invest in them in the years to come because it allows us to bring old buildings in town and village centres back to use and get people back into the town and village centres, which is exactly what we want.

The IDA Ireland property programme is working very well. I know people often ask why the authority does not do more site visits to their county or town, but if you do a site visit, ideally, you want to show the visitors something. What has been successful around the country is where IDA Ireland built out an office building or a factory and it is then ready to be taken over by the investor. Of the 11 built in recent times, nine are occupied, and we are going to continue to build them out around the country so that we can have more options for multinationals in particular to invest in all parts of the country and not just in Dublin. I think I have probably covered everything there.

I welcome the Minister. I ask him to convey our congratulations to Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and the LEOs. The numbers are truly astounding looking at the decade. In 2011, we had 300,000 people working in Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland companies and now we have 500,000. It is an extraordinary expansion in our export base. Most of them are very innovative and enterprising companies. That is the backbone of the progress we have made. The role of the public service in facilitating that needs to be acknowledged.

I acknowledge not only the five new workers' rights, but rights for the undocumented, a new focus on quality work through apprenticeships, a reform of the CAO system and innovative enterprises. We are at the foothills of a lot more expectation on enterprise, not only towards workers but also towards climate and the circular economy. I am interested in the Minister's views on how we ensure that those high-quality changes can be made by small business, the same as large. Many large companies stick on their brand references to having a low carbon footprint and all the rest of it by 2050 but this will be much more of a challenge for the small companies.

The Minister did not mention the circular economy. I know it is not everyone's cup of tea. However, it is much more meaningful than just looking at climate alone, but at the materials and processes used as well as the opportunity for repair and upgrade during the lifetime of the product, the patterns of use by consumers and the waste and end-of-life situation. Has the Department started to think more seriously about how we get that level of quality into the design of what we do in Ireland? In ten years, this will be the source of competitive advantage. The enterprises that can show that they have changed the impact of their entire supply chain will be the winners. I am interested in the Minister's view on that because one of the strengths of IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland is that they have always looked around the next hill to see where the opportunities lie. I strongly believe that this is where opportunities will lie in the future.

I thank the Deputy. I will make sure what he said at the start of his contribution is passed on to Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and my departmental officials as well. To answer his first question on how we enable SMEs to make high-quality changes in the way the big firms do, we are very aware that the smaller firms will need additional help to make the changes that need to be made. As part of the European recovery fund, we secured multi-annual funding for a digital transformation fund and a climate transition fund. We have not fully decided how we are going to use all of that. The money we have is not enormous, but we think it will help to prompt businesses to make the right changes to digitalise and also to embrace climate action, including the circular economy. The climate transition fund has two parts now. There is a climate enterprise action fund and a climate carbon reduction fund. It is about awareness and doing climate audits and teaching businesses sustainable practices. The climate reduction fund is more for capital investment and measures such as heat pumps, for example, capital investment that help to improve the carbon footprint of companies. I anticipate that there will be another future growth loan guarantee scheme, which was really popular. While we do not have sanction for it yet, we have an understanding at government level that we will be able to develop a new loan product this year and there will be a very strong focus on climate and digital with regard to that.

Other schemes include those provided by LEOs, green for micro, and lean for micro and funds that are used to help businesses to take climate action and also to digitalise as well. When it comes to the circular economy, that is probably something that my Department and I need to take a bit more interest in this year. I started to learn about it in recent months. I was in the centre in Ballymun last year to see what they do there. I dipped into it myself by getting two pairs of runners that I was going to throw out renovated. They are great. They look like they are new although they are seven years old. In the past I would have thrown them out and bought a new pair but instead I got them renovated by an Irish small business for approximately €60 instead of buying a new pair.

I was very impressed with that. Fashion is just one small area, but we buy so much fashion imported from abroad and then discard it. Let us think about the number of Irish jobs that could be created by people repairing, reusing and renovating clothes, suits, footwear and so forth. It is only a small part of the circular economy but there are big opportunities to create employment in this area. It is something I will have to pay more attention to this year. Separately, the Minister for Environment, Climate and Communications is drafting legislation on this. I am not sure exactly how that is going to work but there is legislation due on the circular economy.

Deputy Paul Murphy has seven minutes.

In his concluding remarks, the Minister mentioned taking the lead in creating five new workers' rights, one of them being the right to request remote, home or hybrid working. What he is talking about is not really much of a right if it is just the right to request. If we had a situation where one has a right to request the minimum wage, people would think that was laughable. It is similar with the right to request time off or the right to request a vote. It is not much of a right if one is providing that the employee can ask for it and the employer can reject it on the ground that it is not suitable on business grounds. The Minister helpfully gives 13 reasons it may not be suitable, but stresses that it is not limited to those. Effectively, he is turning the clock back. One of the few benefits for workers during the pandemic in terms of being able to work from home is being reversed and we are returning to a situation where workers will be compelled to go to the workplace, even if their work can be done effectively at home.

I totally reject that it is turning the clock back. At present, workers do not have a legal right to request remote working. What is happening in practice at workplace level all over Ireland is that people are being very sensible. Even where employees do not have the right to remote working provided for in their contract, employers and employees are being very practical in the workplace and agreeing arrangements that suit both sides. That is what will happen; it is what is happening.

During the pandemic people were told to work at home. Some people will want to go back to the office full time, others will want to work remotely and most will want to blend. In the vast majority of circumstances that will be worked out at workplace level without the need for any Government intervention. Where this becomes relevant is in those cases where is no contractual right at present to remote working and where an employer has not worked out something at workplace level with the employees. In the proposed legislation, for example, there is a requirement that every business should have a remote working policy. That is not the case at present. I believe it would be beneficial for existing staff or any new staff that might arrive to at least know what their employer's policy is with regard to remote working. The legal right is essentially a procedure that will be followed if somebody requests remote working. It requires that the employer takes it seriously and allows for appeals to the Workplace Relations Commission.

However, the legislation is only at pre-legislative scrutiny stage. I am open to the view that it needs to be strengthened. Perhaps 13 reasons are too many and perhaps we have to make sure, as I indicated in the interviews I did about it, that it is not just a procedural right, that it is not a case of an employer just ticking a box and saying "No", that it is possible to have that reviewed and that somebody cannot just manifestly and ridiculously refuse a request that is reasonable. I am open to having the legislation strengthened. It is only at pre-legislative stage as the Bill is not yet drafted.

I will explore that further. I take the Minister's point, which I welcome, that he is willing to review it. As it stands, however, all this provides is the right to request and the right to the employer to say "No". Even the suggestion that 13 reasons might be too many misses the point. The 13 reasons are just examples that are given. Instead, there is an overarching position that the proposal requested is not suitable on business grounds. The heads of Bill explain, without prejudice to business grounds, that the business grounds may include them but are not limited to them. As it stands, an employer can reject the request simply on the ground that it does not suit the employer's business. The employer can give a number of examples, but can simply say that it is not suitable on business grounds.

There is another point. Is it not case that, as it is currently drafted, if the employer says "No" within the designated timeframe, the employee has no right to appeal? There is no right to appeal on substantive grounds as the legislation is currently drafted. Instead, it is only if the employer fails to meet, for example, the procedure around it, so the employer is delayed in responding to the employee. However, if the employer says it is not possible to do the job or work cannot be reorganised among existing staff, even if that is patently ridiculous, one cannot appeal the substantive rejection. Under the heads of the Bill, one can only appeal a procedural error by the employer.

That is correct but, as I indicated on the day the heads were published, we intend to strengthen that so it is not just a procedural right. It cannot be the case that an employer just ticks one of 13 boxes or ticks another box. This will be more than a procedural right. If the rejection is manifestly unfair, the WRC will be able to respond to that. However, we have to be realistic as well. There cannot be an absolute right to remote working. People understand that there are a huge number of jobs that cannot be done remotely, such as construction, most of retail, hospitality and manufacturing. I will not bore members with the list as they all know how many jobs cannot be done remotely. It is also the case that there is other work that it might be possible to do remotely but by doing that the services provided to the public would be diminished and, perhaps, business performance would be reduced. That is not fair either. We have to get the balance right here in how this lands. The view of the Attorney General, which is very strong, and I have 36 pages of legal advice on this, is that there are strong limitations on the extent to which the Government can intervene and alter a contract that an employer and employee have entered into freely and legally.

The legislation can be strengthened and I intend to strengthen it. I hope some good proposals emerge from the committee when it does its pre-legislative scrutiny. What happened in the pandemic is that remote working or home working happened suddenly. There was a big change as a consequence of the pandemic which was largely positive, but a lot of complicated things were not teased out. We have to tease them out now. Health and safety is an example. How is that going to apply in the home? To what extent would the employer be responsible for an injury in one's home office or if one burns oneself in one's kitchen while one is on a work break? Many of these things have to be teased out, and they could not be teased out during the pandemic. We have an opportunity to do that now. That is why in-depth pre-legislative scrutiny by the committee would be very welcome on this legislation. I am very open-minded about changes and improvements, but I do not want to cod people either. There cannot be an absolute right to remote working because some jobs cannot be done remotely and people need autonomy to run their businesses as they see fit.

The Minister is counter-posing an absolute right to work remotely, regardless of job, versus no right whatsoever. To be clear, what the Minister is proposing is not a right to remote working in certain circumstances. All that is being proposed is the right to request it. There is a big gap between the absolute right to work remotely regardless of the job and, on the other hand, just the right to ask and the right of the employer to refuse.

Your time is up, Deputy.

Okay. I will speak again in the second round.

Deputy O'Reilly has 14 minutes.

I apologise to the Minister for not being here earlier, but I have read his statement. I had a Topical Issue debate this morning and that delayed me. I will not rehearse my and my party's view on the right to be turned down when making a remote working request, which is what some people have nicknamed the legislation. I welcome that the Minister is open to amendments to it and that he acknowledges the need for it to be strengthened. We are happy to work with the Department and the committee to ensure that the legislation is made fit for purpose, if it can be, and I look forward to that engagement.

With reference to the matter at hand, we had representatives of IDA Ireland before the committee last week and we will have representatives of Enterprise Ireland before the committee in the coming weeks. The data in the briefing document regarding the employment figures for companies supported by IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland indicate a robustness in respect of employment and when one looks at the jobs, enterprise and development programme figures from page 77 onwards the expectation looks positive. However, when one looks at the metrics for the LEOs the Department does not appear to have as ambitious an outlook for this group.

It states that the 2022 output target is 1,800 new jobs created for LEO client companies. Given the funding for LEOs is significantly below that of IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland, is there a case to be made that with greater investment and support for the talents that exist in LEOs that they could help to deliver greater employment in conjunction with the SMEs and microbusinesses that they work with?

The short answer to the question is "Yes". Could the LEOs do more? If we scaled them up and provided them with additional funding and additional staff? Could we be more ambitious in the job creation targets that we set for them? I think that we could. We are increasing resources for LEOs and scaling them up. We probably could do more. One of things, as I mentioned, is the alignment of work with slightly larger companies, so those with more than ten employees, into the future.

One of the issues that we run into around limitations for LEOs is that, unlike Enterprise Ireland client companies and IDA Ireland companies, most of them are not involved in exports and, therefore, it is often a company that is competing with another company down the road or another company in the domestic market. We have to be careful that when we provide aid to a company that we are not supporting them financially to the detriment of a competitor down the road. That is something we always have to bear in mind.

I appreciate the need to be careful. Equally, there is a need to be ambitious, with which I am sure that the Minister will agree. It is welcome that he is open to looking at the funding for LEOs but he needs to put a bit of action behind that. They have the potential. Notwithstanding the concerns raised about funding one company to put another company out of business, and I get that nobody wants to see that, there is a balance to be struck. When comparing the funding for the Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland with funding for LEOs, a cogent argument can be made to increase funding and set ambitious targets. I thank the Minister for his response.

In programme C, the associated documents outline increased funding of €526,000 for the WRC. It indicates that this will allow the WRC to increase its staffing complement and inspectors are specifically referenced, which is welcome. Is there a reason that on page 84 there are no metrics for the WRC even though there are metrics for other regulatory bodies? Is that an oversight? Can the Minister confirm how many additional WRC inspectors and staff will be recruited? How many additional inspections will the WRC carry out?

I have come across a number of cases, and I know that this matter has crossed the desk of the Minister as well, where organisations that are wholly funded by the State refuse to recognise trade unions in some instance, or attend the WRC in some instances, and after they attend the commission walk away from recommendations. It makes no sense that there are two arms of the State. There are organisations that are funded wholly and entirely by the State and provide services on behalf of the State that feel they can simply look at WRC recommendations, or invitations to attend conciliation, and simply not go. These are really vital community services. The workers who are involved in the delivery of these services do not want to be all the time running in and out to the WRC, threatening industrial action and balloting for industrial action because they know the importance of the services that they provide. Can the Minister comment on this matter? I fully appreciate that he cannot interfere in every local case but there should be a mechanism by which organisations that are State funded should respect the third-party machinery of the State. Every time there is a dispute the Minister and his colleagues in government will say that the matter has gone to the third-party machinery and cannot interfere but when organisations walk away from the results then there is precious little point in them going in the first instance.

I am looking for the numbers for the WRC. I think I am correct that we are increasing the number of inspectors by ten this year. We plan to expand that service, and expand the WRC, over the next couple of years. With more people at work then there is going to be more work for the commission. We also need to increase the number of labour inspections happening in general in certain parts of the economy. I am going to try and get those numbers now, if I can, but I think that it is ten additional WRC inspectors or staff for this year.

Is that ten staff over and above the contingency for retirement? Is that ten additional staff? My understanding is that some of the people are coming up to retirement this year. If three of them go then there will only be seven. Does the Minister know what I mean?

It is additional so the number will increase from 60 to 70. The WRC is staffed by 200 civil servants. There has been a 25% increase in staffing since October 2015. Total funding for 2022 is €15.7 million with an additional €500,000 to allow for additional inspectors to be hired. The total number of WRC inspectors will increase, therefore, from the current sanction of 60 to 70 over the coming years. That is a net increase of ten. We will need to build on that in the years ahead because there is a backlog of work to be done.

There is a huge backlog.

With additional labour rights there is going to be additional work to be done. I would also like to see more inspections being done in particular sectors. That is definitely the plan.

Generally, employers should engage with the WRC and the Labour Court. They are government bodies. They exist under the remit of my Department and employers should engage. The Deputy is probably referring to Turas Nus or the Department of Social Protection. I am not sure but I think that might be the specific one that she-----

That is one of several cases. I wish that I was only referring to one. That is one of several.

I do not want to comment on individual cases but I do not have the file or I do not know the reasons behind it.

I am just asking the Minister to make a general statement.

I appreciate that Chinese walls exist within the Government and, naturally, they should but these are State-funded organisations. I will not refer to any one specifically but they think that there will be no comeback for them other than that which the workers will do by way of industrial action. We should do everything that we can to avoid employees having no option but industrial action. A recognition dispute in the private sector is par for the course and trade unions will deal with those. A recognition dispute in the community, voluntary or semi-State sector should be relatively unheard of. There is a partnership approach and we could spend all day debating how that fares for workers but there is a partnership approach, particularly in the public service. I cannot understand why these organisations, and I am not referring to any one in particular, feel that they can walk away from third-party recommendations, shrug their shoulders and they know that there is going to be no comeback. They do not even get a letter from the relevant Minister to ask them to engage and work with the representatives that the workers have chosen to represent them. It is very poor form that we repeatedly get requests from workers where an award has been made and the employer simply says that he or she is not implementing that. That is a recipe for industrial chaos when we do not need that.

There will be occasions even when Departments take that approach and there can be good reasons in individual circumstances. The Deputy will know that decisions are not binding. Some countries have binding decisions where they are binding on the union and the employer but it does not work like that in our system. As the Deputy will know, unions very often do not accept a recommendation from the WRC so this works both ways.

They do acknowledge the WRC. My issue is not about whether the recommendation is accepted. My issue is about whether organisations will actually go into the WRC and engage in the process. That is the difficulty very often even when a case does not reach the stage of a recommendation being issued. This matter comes under the remit of the Minister, he has direct responsibility for the WRC and he sits at the Cabinet table where State-funded organisations, funded by other Departments, wilfully ignore the recommendations. Such a situation is acceptable or sustainable. Therefore, we need some strong action from the Minister, as the person responsible for the WRC, and collectively as a Government to say that this is not on. That should be done. It is not enough for the Minister to say that he wishes that they would engage. They are not engaging and that is a simple fact today.

The Deputy has made a fair point. Being bound by a recommendation is different from engaging. Public bodies and private entities that are funded largely by the State, I think, should engage with the industrial machinery of the State. I do not know whether it can be done but maybe in the future what we should write into contracts and tenders is a requirement that they do so in order that they are willing to engage in what are essentially the mechanisms of the State. If one wants a contract from the State then perhaps we should consider working that into contracts but that is something I will have to get advice on as to whether it is possible, and what the pros and cons are.

I believe that it is possible because it has been done in other jurisdictions and, therefore, it should be done.

To return to the number of inspectors, the Minister will be aware that the Towards 2016 national wage agreement that was agreed and implemented in part but not in full in 2006 recommended more than 90 inspectors. In his remarks, the Minister said he wanted to expand the work and capacity of the WRC over the next couple of years. Is there a written-down plan relating to that in terms of targets to be hit and the number of inspectors? While any increase is welcome, 70 is still below the figure recommended in 2006. The population and the numbers in employment have gone up and the demand on the WRC and for inspections will go up with them. The Minister said he was going to expand it over the next couple of years but is there a written-down plan with targets set?

No, we do not have a multi-annual plan in that sense. I think the target for 90 related to the National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, and a lot has changed since then, including the establishment of the WRC. That target relates to an agreement from quite some time ago. The objective this year is to go from 60 to 70. I intend to seek sanction in the budget next year to have a similar increase the year after so that would get us up towards 80. What will be interesting to see is how we get on with regard to recruitment because as is the case across the economy, recruitment is a real challenge between retirement and additional inspectors. If we can get to 70 this year, that will put me in a strong position to look for funding in the budget to get to 80 next year but we do not have an multi-annual plan as such.

That would be very useful to have so that at least there would be targets. Regarding the number of high-potential female-led start-ups, the output target for 2022 is 22. In 2020, the outturn was 19 out of 22 while in 2021, the outturn was nine out of a target of 22. Is the Minister confident that this year, the target of 22 can be reached? Similarly, is he confident that the targets for women on boards of listed companies can also be reached by the end of the year?

The short answer is "Yes". Unless there is some major shock to the economy that we are not expecting, they can be achieved. We are ahead of target when it comes to targets relating to female participation on boards. I work very closely with Balance for Better Business. All the interim targets have been met and, therefore, that would give me confidence that the target can be met this year.

Like other speakers, I welcome the performance of IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland in particular. I have been engaging with Mr. Martin Shanahan and we are very happy in Waterford about the announcement of the advanced factory. The contract has been signed to build that so that is good news. The Minister highlighted in his presentation that there was an €80 million carryover from last year in unused capital appropriation. A capital support fund was opened up late in the year for Enterprise Ireland where the window of opportunity was only three months. Somebody had to procure, spend and have it all invoiced and done within a three-month window. I will get the Minister the name of the fund; I cannot think of it offhand. It is something that needs to be looked at. It is not feasible to ask business to engage in that way. We all know the difficulties involved in even trying to get builders at the moment, and that was something I wanted to highlight.

The Minister referred to the climate action fund, climate investment fund and, hopefully, new climate and digital loan products. We have a significant problem, as does Europe and the rest of the world, namely, the increasing use of plastics. We are doing very little to mitigate plastic production. The idea that all plastic is recyclable is not true. We need a strategy. It is not enough to say, "Reduce and reuse". We need a strategy to get other packaging into the supply chain. A significant volume of plastic nanoparticles is entering the organic biosphere and will poison us all over the next 50 years, notwithstanding global warming. This is something the Department could lead on.

Another issue I would like to touch on is public procurement, which I have raised previously. We have public procurement policies that are not helping SMEs to get on that public procurement pathway, particularly smaller businesses. An issue I must raise directly with the Minister relates to some health procurement. The HSE is trying to change certain contracts and derogate what it agreed to in contract terms. This needs to be flagged. A number of businesses are in this space and are suffering very badly.

The last issue I wish to raise involves insurance and occupier's liability. I know the Minister heads up the Cabinet subgroup. The duty of care legislation was promised in September 2021. The spring legislative programme made no reference to that. Can he outline what obstacles are holding that up and when we can expect some reform and legislation to be presented on duty of care? Owner's and occupier's liability is so important now. It is a significant headwind in respect of insurance costs for business going into this year and beyond.

I join the Deputy in noting the favourable number of investments we have secured for Waterford and the south east in the past year or so. It has been really good news and my thanks go to IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland for that. I think there will be a good pipeline of investment for Waterford and the south east in particular.

There was a lot of unused capital last year. Much of it was related to Covid; things that were supposed to happen that just did not happen and construction delays in particular. We have been able to carry approximately €100 million of that. Sometimes what Departments try to do at the end of the year is spend unused capital. That means putting together a scheme and trying to administer it quickly. It is far from ideal. It probably works better around equipment than things that require build. What we try to do sometimes is get money out towards the end of the year rather than hand it back but perhaps that is not best practice. Multi-annual budgeting would be a lot better but we are allowed to carry over approximately 10% of any underspend. That at least does help. The carryover last year will be targeted at the Covid credit guarantee, sustaining enterprise fund and other supports.

The Deputy is correct about plastic. A lot of plastic can be recycled that could not be recycled in the past. People can put a lot more in their green bin than they did in the past and there are a lot of plant-based alternatives to plastic but, obviously, this is more an area for the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications than it is for me.

I will have to follow up on the issue of duty of care with regard to insurance. That falls under the remit of the Minister for Justice. She and her Department have done some work in that area. The idea was to reform the Civil Liability Act to rebalance duty of care so that people are expected to be a bit more responsible about not injuring themselves. Again, it is important to get that right. The ministerial committee on insurance will meet in the next couple of weeks. An update will then to go to Cabinet on the progress made in implementing the actions. I will make sure duty of care forms part of that update.

I think the reform of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board, PIAB, was also included in that legislative programme. Could the Minister comment on that? My colleagues in the Regional Group and I met him in last autumn on the issue of buying local. Does the Department have a programme for that initiative and the idea of trying to give public procurement support to indigenous companies?

Since we met, we ran the Look for Local campaign again, which was very successful. We have not yet decided but are likely to do something similar this year. PIAB falls under the remit of the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, so he is leading reform of PIAB. A general scheme to reform the board is expected to go to Government this month. The aim of that is to facilitate and increase the number of personal injury claims that are resolved by the board, particularly to increase the incentive to accept the its award rather than going to court.

That is often where costs increase. The Minister of State should have the general scheme published later this month.

I thank the Minister. I will come in on the next round, if the Chair pleases.

I will conclude the first round of questions and ask members to indicate for round two.

I echo the comments on enterprise agencies and pass my best wishes on to IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, the LEOs, and we cannot forget InterTradeIreland, which have done really exceptional work during the pandemic. InterTradeIreland, in particular, has been really successful with cross-border trade on both sides. I would appreciate it if the Minister could pass on my comments.

He stated in his opening contribution, "We will also make progress towards a living wage for Ireland." Will he confirm his understanding of a living wage? What should be the rate? How does the Minister intend to progress to that?

The Living Wage for Ireland group has a living wage of €12.90.

I will pass the Chairman's comments on to InterTradeIreland and the others. On the living wage, we have asked the Low Pay Commission to do research on this and advise us. The Chairman rightly pointed out that a group has pointed out what it believes the living wage should be in Ireland but any group can establish itself and come up what it thinks a living wage should be. The appropriate body to do that is the Low Pay Commission. It is a statutory tripartite body involving unions, employers and experts and they calculate the national minimum wage. I imagine it will be the body we ask to calculate the living wage when we are able to introduce it.

The research will look at three areas: how a living wage should be calculated, who it should apply to and how we would phase it in. It is intended that it would be higher than the existing national minimum wage. There are different ways that it can be calculated. Some calculate it by the minimal essential standard of living, MESL, and that it is all about what is put in the basket. There is the question of what is considered minimum and essential and what is not. That is complicated but it might well be the right approach. The other way, which is much simpler, is to have it as a percentage of the median wage. It could be 55%, 60% or 65% of the median wage. None of that is decided yet. The purpose of the research is for the Low Pay Commission to study all that and present the Government with a recommendation or options.

I refer the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. The Revised Estimate states that €1.69 million is being provided to the office and that it has "the requisite resources in its transformation to the robust, statutory and independent Corporate Enforcement Agency." The brief states that it builds on the €1 million additional funding previously provided to the ODCE to prepare for this transformation.

Before the committee last year, the agencies that front the battle against white-collar crime outlined how a lack of human and financial resources inhibited their ability to deliver on the remit. I note the comments in the Minister's opening statement. Does he feel an operational budget of approximately €6 million, even if it is increased by a welcome 20% on the ODCE's previous budget, is sufficient given the important and very complex work the corporate enforcement agency will need to carry out?

I think that it will be sufficient for this year. The idea is to get the new body up and running this year and to get it doing its work. The legislation is done. We need to now actually create the body and ensure it is up and running. We do not have full agreement yet on resourcing from An Garda Síochána, which is really important because we need gardaí seconded to the authority if it is going to do its work properly. We have a memorandum of understanding with the Department of Justice and An Garda Síochána that is not yet signed. We need to get all that done in the next couple of weeks and then set up the body.

The Garda headcount will go from seven to 16, so it is more than doubling of Garda resources for the body. The headcount for the new agency will be 50% higher than was the case for the ODCE. I am not saying that we will stop there; we need to scale it up and give it more resources in the years to come. However, the target for this year is to get it up and running and working.

According to the documents provided to us, the HSA carried out in excess of 7,500 workplace inspections across all sectors, of which 7,400 addressed alleged breaches of the Covid-19 mitigation measures as provided for in the protocol. However, in its contact unit, the HSA handled 5,000 complaints, 47% of which related to Covid. Less than half of complaints were directly Covid related yet more than 95% of inspections related directly to breaches or alleged breaches of Covid mitigation measures. From these figures it would appear that the concentration on Covid, which I completely understand naturally had to come to the fore, was to the exclusion of other health, safety and welfare at work issues. Complaints were being made that were being ignored. My question is simple: is the Minister concerned that during the pandemic, under the cover of Covid, that breaches of the Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Act were going undetected by virtue of the fact that the HSA, with the resources that it has, was concentrating almost exclusively on Covid-related measures?

That is a fair question. It is probably the case across the public service that the concentration on Covid sometimes meant that other work did not get the attention that it would have had there not been Covid. The HSA would tell us that when it carries out an inspection, it does so in a way that is wide and comprehensive. It does not simply narrow in on one thing that might be Covid compliance. If it sees other health and safety issues or other health and safety issues are brought to its attention, it also deals with those.

On complaints,the HSA handled 5,000 complaints, 47% of which related to Covid. There were 11,000 requests for information and more than 56,000 courses were done online with hsalearning.ie. One very crude measure of health and safety in the workplace is the number of work-related fatalities. That fell last year, thankfully. One death in the workplace is one too many but there was a 38% decline in 2021 relative to 2020. That is only a very crude measure of health and safety but it is good that it went in the right direction and we did not see a deterioration.

I suspect, as the Minister must do himself, that that has a lot do with Covid. My concern is around the complaints that were referred and not followed up. The Minister said that when the HSA goes in inspect, it inspects a range of issues but does he have the figures to back that up? There were 7,400 workplace inspections. Arising out of those, has he heard from the HSA specifically that other breaches were detected or was it simply the case that they were there to look at Covid? They could have looked at something else but there was not something else there. Are those figures interrogated by the Department?

They are. There are regular meetings between my Department and the authority. I do not have the figures to hand but I will see if I can get them.

I thank the Minister. I think it would paint a full picture. People do not go to the authority on a whim. It is something they do when they feel they have no other option. Very often, they have raised the issues at workplace level but they have not had any traction on it. My concern is that the concentration on Covid, while completely understandable, may have allowed other breaches. I am not going to put words in the Minister's mouth but I assume that he shares those concerns. It needs to be followed up. It is not good enough to say that when they are there they will have a look at everything because there could be a complete disparity between the calls that were made and the inspections that took place. A closer look at those figures to see exactly how many were related to Covid and were then broadened out would tell us the extent to which those other issues are being dealt with. Then there are still the remaining issues that could not be addressed through a workplace inspection. Some may not have been appropriate to a workplace inspection, which I understand, but those figures are fairly significant. The hope would be that as Covid recedes, touch wood, that they will get back to the normal regime of responding to those complaints as they are made and carrying out inspections as they are required.

On page 32 there is a breakdown of funding for programme expenditure areas highlighting the moneys both current and capital going to the three different programmes. Programme A on jobs and enterprise development, receives more than €561 million, programme B on innovation and commercialisation receives more than €275 million and programme C on regulation receives more than €105 million. It is somewhat the Cinderella or poor relation of that group. It would seem there is plenty of funding to go to business and development, all of which is important. I accept that. I am trying to understand why there was no appetite within the Department to allocate additional moneys to programme C, which is to help the HSA, WRC, ODCE, CCPC and other agencies that are trying to deliver on their mandates, especially after the good work we saw done by the HSA and WRC throughout the pandemic in keeping workers safe at work.

Following up on the Deputy's initial comments, I will as officials to follow up on that issue and we will interrogate it. With regard to other health and safety matters, it is possible that other health and safety breaches went undetected and uninspected because of the focus on Covid-19. At the same time, though, I would hope that part of the experience of the pandemic and Covid-19 has helped to raise that bar in respect of health and safety in the workplace. It made people much more aware of respiratory etiquette, hand washing, the need for hygiene and cleaning, the benefits of separating people out and not crowding them into a workplace and the benefits of good air quality. It could be that one of the positive legacies of the pandemic is a higher bar and greater awareness of health and safety in the workplace more generally.

Programme C does not get less money because it is less important. The programme on regulation gets less money because what is done in programmes A and B is very expensive. They relate to capital grants, by and large, for constructing buildings and helping to build plants and factories and so on. That is obviously much more expensive than regulation, which is mainly down to salaries. There has been a very considerable increase in resources for all the regulatory agencies in the past couple of years. That goes for the WRC, HSA, ODCE and National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, as well. We would anticipate seeing resources and budgets for those agencies continuing to rise.

I thank the Minister very much. I genuinely wish I shared his optimism with regard to the bar being raised simply because people are now more aware of the need for separation, hand washing, etc. My fear is because of the time lost. It is in the Minister's statement that he will bring forward workers' rights legislation, some of which will be welcome and some of which will have to be subject to amendment as we have discussed.

I do not necessarily share the Minister's optimism, however, with regard to things not going back to the way they were. My experience from talking to workers' representatives and workers is that there was a rush back to business as usual for an awful lot of people, that is, working in a place where the protocols cannot be observed and where people are all squashed in together. etc. I do not, therefore, share the his optimism; I wish I did. We will leave that where it is.

I have one more question on climate action. It is one of the most important challenges we as a globe are going to face and we here in Ireland are facing it too. A significant section in the overview relates to this. How does this fit in with the aspirations expressed by the Minister and his Department? How does it fit in alongside IDA Ireland's role in marketing Ireland as somewhere to locate data centres?

It was reported that the authority's global head of strategy, public policy and international financial services raised concerns with a senior official in the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications that data centres were being scapegoated and portrayed as the "culprit for current electricity problems". I do not believe that is the case but I do not think the Minister or anybody else is going to deny that they make a massive contribution to being the "culprit for current electricity problems" and, indeed, the crisis we have in our electricity supply. Last week, the head of IDA Ireland appeared before the committee to defend its role in data centres. Given the electricity consumed by such centres has jumped by 144% in five years, how does this square and fit with the climate action aims of the Department?

The way IDA Ireland would describe it is that in Ireland we try to build an ecosystem for investment. We have done very well in terms of life sciences and tech and data centres are part of that, particularly when it comes to tech investment. That is the argument IDA Ireland would make as to why we should continue to host them in Ireland. If we want to encourage tech investment in Ireland and companies and start-ups to invest here, we cannot say that one aspect of tech, which is data, is something we do not want in our country. We have to be able to provide the electricity, however.

The Deputy pointed out that 10% or 11% of electricity is now used by data centres, which is quite a lot. One would think it was more than 10% or 11% based on some of the reports and comments but it has been increasing considerably in recent years. Because of the grid constraints now, I believe we will see a slowdown in the number of data centres being connected, particularly around Dublin.

The Deputy asked how it squares with our climate objectives. It can only square with our climate objectives if we make sure the electricity we use is green. Data centres will have to be somewhere in the world. We all use data. We are using it now because we are holding this meeting remotely. When this meeting is over, we will all be on our phones using data. Data has to be stored somewhere and if it is going to be stored anywhere in the world, it should be stored somewhere it can be powered by renewable electricity. How we square that with our objectives as a Department is to dramatically increase the volume of renewable electricity we produce and renewable energy we use so that green power is powering those centres and everything else.

The Minister said he expects we will all see a slowdown in the number of data centres being established. Could he put some figures on that? The figure of 11% is a lot. I do not hear anyone saying it is any more than 11% but I hear people saying it is currently at 11%. That is where we are sort of starting from today. It is only going in one direction. It is only going up so 11% of the grid is already fairly significant. I do not think that needs to be overblown by anybody. It stands alone as a high figure. The Minister has acknowledged that it is going to increase. Can he put a figure on what he predicts will be something of an inevitable slowdown either in Dublin or across the State? Does he have it either in his head or as part of his climate policy that when the figure gets to, we will say 11%, that is very high? Will he stop at 15% or is it 20%? At what point does he make the decision that our electricity supply is being put at risk by the establishment of data centres, which, as we all know, may drive a certain element of industry but does not create employment? We are talking about tiny numbers of people being employed in them. What is the cut-off in the Minister's head or according to the Department in this regard? Where does it stop?

It is not something on which our Department makes a decision. It is a decision for the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU. The Deputy will have seen the new policy it produced in the past couple of months recognising that because there are constraints on the system, there will be fewer data centre connections over the next couple of years, particularly in the Dublin region where capacity is tight. The way I see it is that we need to produce much more electricity in Ireland, largely from renewable sources. We need it not just for data centres by any means but to power industry, electric cars and our homes. We need to get off fossil fuels over the next couple of years and decades and move towards renewable electricity, green hydrogen and other fuels. We are constrained, however. We do not produce enough electricity in Ireland to suits the needs and demands. We have to prioritise at the moment. Data centres would be of a lower priority than homes, hospitals, schools or industry itself. That is why they are not being connected.

My time is up now. I appreciate what the Minister said about the constraints but I would appreciate even more a response from him that would indicate that he acknowledges the constraints and will be able to ensure that figure of 11% does not get any bigger. He has just accepted it will get bigger. There does not seem to be any limit set by the Minister or his Department. By the way, it is not necessarily that he has the power to enforce it but he should have an idea in his head of what percentage of the electricity generated will be given to these data centres.

It is not so much the percentage but whether we have enough electricity.

No, it is the percentage.

I would not agree.

The Minister has already said that we are constrained in volume the electricity we produce. They are using 11% and that is only going to rise. As he said, 11% is a very high figure so 11% of a bigger figure is an even higher amount of electricity. That is the only direction in which it is going.

Yes but if we produce twice as much green electricity we will be able to facilitate a lot more investments.

Deputy Stanton is next.

I am very pleased to hear that the Balance for Better Business is going so well, meeting its targets and, in most cases, exceeding them. I put a lot of work into setting that up. I ask the Minister to pass on my congratulations and encouragement to the campaign to keep going. A small number of companies still do not have female directors and they need to be focused on and encouraged to make the necessary changes.

I am also pleased that the Department is increasing the number of staff processing work permits. It is an area on which we get a lot of representations because there are lots of delays there and with the shortages of labour now, it is an issue of real concern. I encourage the Department to expedite the process of increasing the numbers working on work permits and to see what can be done to ensure that applications are turned around faster than is the case currently. Some work permits can take a long time to be processed and people out there are under a lot of pressure trying to access labour.

On that point, I mentioned earlier the issue of encouraging and supporting Irish people who wish to return to Ireland. I refer to those who emigrated for a few years, some of whom have small children now, who want to come home and work here. In the past, some Departments held jobs fairs where they went abroad, not just to look for investment but also to encourage people to come back here. Has any thought been given to doing that? Is that happening now or is the Department considering it? When people do come back they face challenges in finding accommodation and in getting insurance, driver's licences, and so on. These challenges must be overcome for them to be able to perform here.

Another issue that I have raised from time to time is the security of our mobile telephone platforms, about which a number of businesses are concerned. The issues of cybersecurity and data security need more attention. Some people have suggested to me that our mobile telephone platforms are not secure and can be easily hacked. The data of businesses, politicians and VIPs can be accessed easily, their conversations can be accessed, their locations can be identified and so forth. This is something that needs attention at Government level, particularly as it could have an impact on business and FDI.

Another issue of concern is State-backed export credit insurance. We are one of the few exporting countries in Europe that does not have such a scheme. In 2020, there was an extension to the state aid derogation from the European Commission in respect of credit insurance or implementing cuts. Exporters are under pressure and are at a competitive disadvantage. Has the Department done any work on this? The Minister may not be able to answer now. There may be costs involved in the State getting involved in something like this but as I understand it, we are one of the few northern countries that does not have a State-backed export credit insurance scheme.

I ask the Minister to comment on the small company administrative rescue process, SCARP. How does he see that developing and does he believe it will be busy? He may not know that for sure but what are the indications at this stage? I know it has been set up and am interested to hear how it is going.

Finally, last week Mr. Martin Shanahan appeared before this committee and gave a very good overview of the work of IDA Ireland. In my own area there is a very large authority-owned site that has been sitting idle for 12 years. I am sure I mentioned it to the Minister previously but I just want to put it on the record. The 56 ha, fully serviced site, which lies between Carrigtwohill and Midleton, has already cost the State €100 million but has been idle for 12 years. The road network is the main reason it cannot be accessed. Recently, the Department of Transport decided not to fund Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, to continue work it has already started to improve the road network so that this site can be accessed. It is an absolutely fabulous site, totally flat and fully serviced with water, wastewater, electricity and so forth. The local authority is totally perplexed as to why work on the road infrastructure, for which €1.3 million has already been spent on improvement designs, has been put on the long finger. I raised it in the Dáil last night but the Minister for Transport was not available to respond. I have written to him and I am still awaiting a response. This is a serious issue from the point of view of inward investment, job creation and so on. Not only that, TII has now objected to housing being developed in the area because the road infrastructure is not up to scratch. It beggars belief that we have one arm of the State impeding IDA Ireland in its work of trying to attract investment to this particular site that is not very far from Cork city, its airport, port, universities and so forth. There is a rail line at one side of the site. We also have an arm of the State effectively blocking housing development that is badly needed too. I ask the Minister to talk to the Minister for Transport about this and see if he will look at it again, seeing as so much money has been spent already.

I want to recognise the Deputy's work in establishing Balance for Better Business, which is working very well. We are pleased with the results we are getting in increasing the number of women on company boards. However, we need to do a bit more on senior leadership teams where the numbers are not as good, albeit they are moving in the right direction.

On work permits, we have a real problem. There is a 19- to 20-week wait for work permits to be processed and that is down to volume. There has been a 70% increase in applications on last year. That is probably distorted by the pandemic but even if we compare with 2019, there has been an increase of nearly 50% in applications. This is a reflection of the fact that employers cannot get staff, not only in Ireland but from anywhere in the European Economic Area, and are now looking to take people in from outside of Europe. It also reflects that we are allowing more work permits in areas like construction and agrifood where there are big labour shortages. We are staffing up the section, big time. We have gone from 15 or 16 staff to about 50. We are also offering overtime and bringing in staff from other sections to process the permits. A lot of the staff that are now processing permits are doing it for the first time and there is a bit of a learning curve. That said, we anticipate - or at least the Secretary General assures me and the Minister of State, Deputy English - that we will see a big improvement over the next couple of months. It is something we are monitoring on an almost daily basis because we know it is creating real problems for businesses. They have staff who are willing and available to come to Ireland to provide care and to allow businesses to function but they cannot get them in.

On the returnees and jobs fairs, I will have to check on that and get back to the Deputy on it. Generally, that is something that employers rather than the Department would do; we would just help out. The Department of Foreign Affairs has some very good guides on what to do as a returnee, how to get car insurance and so forth. The Department did some very good work on that in the past. I will have to come back to the Deputy and get him a better, more detailed response. The same goes for the question on mobile phone security, which is a cybersecurity issue under the remit of the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications.

We looked at the issue of an export credit insurance scheme a couple of years ago and decided not to go ahead with it. The business case did not really stack up and there was a risk for the taxpayer. We have had some bad experiences with such schemes in the past but we might look at it again.

SCARP is new and is an alternative to court-based examinership. Some people call it examinership light and it is designed to allow companies that would otherwise fail to restructure, renegotiate their debts and survive, allowing them to have another day and keep on their staff. The proof of the pudding is going to be in the eating. We have not yet seen many companies go through the process. I read in the newspapers about one company that is going through the process now, which is a tourism business in County Kerry, but I am not sure of the details of that. We are going to monitor things very closely over the next couple of months to see how many companies go through the process, what their experience is like and how many companies and jobs are saved as a result. It is going to need to be up and running for at least six months, if not a year, before we can do that assessment properly.

The Deputy and I have talked about the former Amgen site in east Cork previously.

I appreciate that he is using this opportunity to raise it again. We as a Department want to see investment on that site. A lot of investment has gone into it already. That is taxpayers' money. We want to see jobs and investment happening on that site.

I take the point the Deputy is making on the roads programme and the need to prioritise public transport but we also need to build roads because we need roads to access housing and IDA Ireland sites. I have asked my officials in the authority to look at the eight projects that are stalled from the point of view of business and enterprise to see which ones should be prioritised. I am getting many representations from people all over the country about road projects that have been slowed or stalled. I want to get a sense from the authority and officials in my Department of which of those are most valuable economically. I will engage with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, on that once I have that analysis done.

I thank the Minister for his responses, particularly on the last question. I would be interested in hearing what IDA Ireland has to say about it. I brought it up last week with Mr. Martin Shanahan. Not only is the road down there extremely dangerous but the site has been lying idle and growing weeds for 12 years, when it should be providing employment at a high level.

I also thank the Minister for his comments on export credit insurance. There is a tightening of credit insurance and I am told our companies are coming under pressure. It would be useful to get briefings on that from the Department and maybe for the Department to look at this again.

I have a question for the Minister on the WRC. In spite of the challenges posed by the pandemic, the commission carried out 7,687 inspections in 2020 and recovered almost €1.7 million in unpaid wages for workers. Data revealed by a parliamentary question outlined how, since 2011, the WRC has recovered almost €18 million in withheld wages. Further parliamentary question data revealed the scale and number of breaches of employment law detected by WRC investigations since 2015. In those six years, it has detected breaches in employment law in more than one third of investigations. A total of 35.9% of the cases investigated found breaches by employers regarding non-payment of the minimum wage, employment permits, protection of young persons, annual leave and public holidays and unpaid wages, among other areas. That is a stark figure. I ask the Minister and Department to put a focus on protecting workers and tackling rogue employers, who negatively impact on the vast majority of good employers, for the year ahead. I thank him.

The Chairman can be sure of that. The vast majority of employers are good and treat their staff well. I know he will agree with that. The fact that one third of inspections throw up an issue does not mean that one third of businesses mistreat their workers because the WRC responds to complaints and targets businesses and sectors where it thinks there could be abuse. It is still a lot and it is positive that this year we will have ten additional inspectors. Hopefully that will allow more work to be done and more rights to be vindicated.

I thank the Minister. As nobody else has indicated, I propose that we end our consideration of the Revised Estimate and agree it. The clerk to the committee will send a message to that effect to the Clerk of the Dáil in accordance with Standing Order 101. The message is deemed to be the report of the committee.

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