I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Hanafin, and her official. The purpose of today's meeting is to consider Supplementary Estimate, Vote 2 - Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament. I invite the Minister of State to make her opening statement.
Estimates for Public Services, 2000.
Vote 2 - Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament (Supplementary).
This Vote provides for the salaries and expenses of the Houses of the Oireachtas, grants-in-aid for parliamentary activities, the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, former Members' pension fund and salaries, and pensions for the Irish members of the European Parliament.
The Supplementary Estimate required is £5,726,000. This arises from the excess of £7.262 million under subhead D, which is the televising of proceedings, due to the design, purchase and installation of new equipment for broadcasting the proceedings of the Houses and their committees, using additional committee rooms. However, this excess is partially offset by savings on other subheads of the Vote, including such things as post and telecommunications, office machinery, pension schemes and travel expenses. Were it not for the over-expenditure on televising, we would not be seeking a Supplementary Estimate.
The Minister regrets he is unable to take the Estimate today. I understand that this committee is taking a number of Supplementary Estimates next week. Unfortunately, it was not possible to delay this one beyond 30 November because current expenditure will exceed the Estimate provision for this year by the beginning of next week, and it requires formal Dáil approval. It is anticipated that it will be taken without debate in the Dáil tomorrow in order to meet the very tight timescale on this Vote. That sets out exactly what is involved in this Supplementary Estimate.
This Estimate is obviously not too contentious, otherwise there would be more Members present. Will the Minister give an indication, information or clarification on the number of staff who are leaving the Houses of the Oireachtas? I realise it may be difficult for the Minister to do so because when I was in the Minister's position, smart alec Deputies would ask questions that would not be in my brief. Are we suffering in that a number of staff are leaving to take up jobs in the private sector? Perhaps the Minister does not have the information to hand. I just know about secretaries' salaries.
To save you asking the Minister those questions, the figures are quoted in the Estimate.
Fair enough, I will not ask further questions. However, it is something of which we should be aware. I remember that last year, in particular, there were some really good civil servants in the General Office and some of them left after Christmas. I notice people are leaving different sections in the Houses of the Oireachtas and, no doubt, there is a major haemorrhage from various areas of the Civil Service. Somebody mentioned boosting salaries. I would be in total agreement with boosting salaries at all levels of the secretarial staff to make the job attractive. It is very important that the committees, the TDs and our whole bureaucracy is properly supported by very well trained and well paid secretarial staff. If we want high standards, we have to pay for them nowadays. That is very important if democracy is to function properly and effectively.
I know RTE and, no doubt, TV3 have access to the proceedings of the Dáil. Is the public able to access the proceedings of the Dáil free of charge and, if not, what is the charge? I have been involved in a few documentaries, although not relating to the Dáil, and I can image how useful some of what goes on in the Dáil would be to those making documentaries on the environment, health, agriculture and so on. How accessible are the proceedings of the Houses to the public?
On two of the questions asked by Deputy Deenihan, who is in no way a smart alec TD, unlike the others, he is right in saying there is currently a very high turnover of staff but, apparently, it is largely due to promotions rather than people leaving. The vacancies are being filled and the number of vacancies which exists is less now than in the recent past. It is good news that those people are being promoted rather than leaving.
In relation to the proceedings of the Dáil, RTE and TV3 pay a fee of £200,000 per year. I do not think the proceedings are directly accessible to the public, other than through those channels.
From my limited experience of being involved in a few documentaries, the cost of getting footage is, in some cases, prohibitively expensive. I am sure that in time people will want to access Dáil reports for special events and there are bound to be documentaries on matters such as the beef tribunal and other tribunals. If reasonable footage was available to documentary makers through the Oireachtas, it would make life a lot easier for them and would certainly affect budgets. That thought just crossed my mind.
I understand any member of the public can buy a tape from the broadcasting unit of the Houses of the Oireachtas. I understand what the Deputy is saying and that people have to pay a fee of £10, £20 or whatever for the video. That facility is available from the broadcasting unit, but one has to pay a commercial price for the video.
There is no copyright?
No. One does not have to go through RTE or TV3. One can go directly to the broadcasting unit of the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Deputy Fleming is quite right - I have even bought some myself. It is £10 or £15 for the video. The Joint Committee on Broadcasting and Parliamentary Information deals with everything to do with this. It decided on the tenders, the amount, the fee and so on. Deputy Deenihan asked if one can just tune in at home and look at the proceedings of the Dáil. One cannot do that, one must go through one of the two channels. Perhaps that is something which could be taken up with the joint committee.
One cannot access it through the Internet?
No, I do not think so, but I will check with the joint committee.
That concludes consideration of the Supplementary Estimate. I thank the Minister and her officials for attending this meeting.
This is my first outing as Minister of State to any committee and I hope all my outings will be as cordial.
Before adjourning the meeting, a provisional booking has been made for the committee for next Wednesday, 6 December 2000, at 11 a.m. to consider the Supplementary Estimate for the Office of the Minister for Finance. The Clerk will be in touch with Members on the matter.