I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Cullen, and his officials. The purpose of the meeting is to consider the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Finance.
Estimates for Public Services, 2000.
Vote 6 - Department of Finance (Supplementary).
As Members will be aware, this matter was discussed extensively in the Dáil. The Supplementary Estimate will provide funding for the Border, midlands and west, and southern and eastern regional assemblies in respect of their technical assistance costs under the two regional operational programmes of the National Development Plan 2000-06 and the Community Support Framework 2000-06. The establishment orders for the regional authorities and regional assemblies require that reimbursements of expenditure incurred by the authorities and assemblies in respect of their EU related functions must be made by the Minister for Finance. In the 1994-99 programming period, expenditure on the regional authority EU operational committees and related costs were recouped on a quarterly basis by the Department of Finance. These costs were paid from the Community Support Framework Technical Assistance Operational Programme and were charged to Subhead L of the Department of Finance's Vote.
In the negotiations earlier this year on the Community Support Framework 2000-06, my Department proposed to the European Commission that the recoupment of the EU costs of the newly created regional assemblies should be provided for on a similar basis to that which operated for the regional authorities in the 1994-99 period, that is, from CSF technical assistance. The European Commission, while accepting the principle of the EU costs of the regional assemblies in existing regional authorities should be funded from technical assistance, expressed a preference for such costs to be met from a separate technical assistance measure within each of the regional operational programmes, and this was agreed. To give effect to this new arrangement and to introduce greater transparency from a financial accounting perspective, a Supplementary Estimate was proposed to the House to create a new subhead within the Department of Finance Vote for funding technical assistance in the two regional operational programmes. This Estimate will cover the costs relating to monitoring information and publicity, the mid-term evaluation of the regional operational programmes and the eligible costs of the EU operational committees of the regional authorities in the southern, eastern and BMW regions.
On the basis of previous annual expenditure and of claims so far this year by the regional authorities, as well as the expenditure arising in connection with the monitoring of the regional operational programmes, the regional assemblies' estimates for technical assistance costs in 2000 is £280,000, rising to £560,000 in 2001. Since it is expected that there will be sufficient savings elsewhere in the Vote for the Department of Finance to meet the expenditure arising this year, a token Supplementary Estimate of £1,000 is being proposed to the Dáil, with the expenditure from the subhead to be met from the savings arising. The gross amount will be provided in the Vote and will be advanced to the regional assemblies quarterly on the basis of returns of the previous quarter's expenditure and Estimates for the following quarter. The expenditure will be co-funded by the European regional development fund at an aid rate of 75% and 50% in the Border, midlands and west and southern and eastern regions, respectively. The other costs of the regional assemblies will be funded directly by the constituent local authorities in proportion to their respective populations.
The eight existing regional authorities will continue to perform their general functions of promoting the co-ordination of public service delivery and monitoring the impact of the NDP and Structural Funds programme at NUTS III level. To assist them in this regard, they will continue to have available to them the advice of EU operational committees comprising regional authority members, local authority managers, local representatives of State bodies, the social partners and representatives of Departments.
The introduction for the first time of regional operational programmes managed at a regional rather than a central level is a major innovation under the current national development plan. On foot of this, the regional assemblies have a key role to play in the implementation and monitoring of the regional operational programmes under the national development plan. They will act as managing authority for their region's operational programme. As a managing authority, they will have the same responsibilities and functions of the Departments which will manage the inter-regional operational programmes. They will chair the monitoring committee and provide the secretariat for the OP; initiate and co-ordinate a proposal to change the programmes or to reallocate resources between measures; provide physical and financial progress reports to the monitoring committee based on information supplied by the implementing bodies; arrange payment of the Structural Funds to the final beneficiaries through the paying authority for each fund; and organise the mid-term review of their OP.
The regional assemblies, along with the regional authorities, will be represented on all the monitoring committees, not just their own OP committee. They will therefore participate fully in all decision making by monitoring committees under the NDP and all OPs. There will also be regional representation on project selection boards set up by the implementing bodies to decide on specific projects to attract plan funding.
Excellent work is being done by the regional assemblies since their establishment over a year ago. As managing authorities for the two regional operational programmes, they have participated in the negotiation and agreement with the Commission on the Community Support Framework for Ireland. They have also directly engaged, assisted by my Department, in negotiating the regional operational programmes with the European Commission. I am pleased to report that the two regional operational programmes were formally signed by Commissioner Barnier in Brussels in the presence of regional assembly representatives on 27 November last.
The regional assemblies have also prepared and secured the approval of their programme complements by their operational programme monitoring committees in the past few weeks. These programme complements set out at a measure level the detailed arrangements of the operational programmes. This rate of progress is testament to the excellent co-operation which has been forged between the regional assemblies, Departments and State bodies. Now that the regional operational programmes and programme complements have been finalised, it is necessary to put in place the final piece of the jigsaw to allow the regional assemblies to discharge their responsibilities as managing authorities, that is, to finalise the arrangements for funding them in the discharge of their EU functions.
I commend this Supplementary Estimate to the committee and stress the urgency of its approval as the regional assemblies are anxious to reimburse the regional authorities for expenditure incurred by them from 1 January 2000 and to meet their own liabilities before the end of this year.
I support the Supplementary Estimate but will the Minister of State confirm that the Supplementary Estimate is not an indication of the actual activities in the BMW regions and the regional assemblies? Most members of them see them merely as talking shops which have been in place for so long with little or nothing to show. The Minister said that two regional programmes were signed last week. That is welcome provided we see the details of the two programmes and the way they will be implemented on the ground. Nothing has come from the designation of the BMW regions as yet. The many people who fought hard for inclusion in the BMW regions expected that there would be progress but it appears nothing has happened. There is no indication that anything has changed in that regard.
The Deputy is correct in that the £1,000 is simply a token Vote to create the subhead. The cost this year for technical assistance for 2000 is £280,000 and is expected to rise to £560,000 in 2001. I would not agree with the Deputy that the regional authorities are talking shops. They have made a contribution, particularly with the establishment of the two major regions in the country and the fact that the operational programmes will be directly under the chair within the regional authorities. It gives them the same role as the Department had heretofore. They will also be involved in the monitoring committees. That is a substantial and innovative change because it delegates real authority and power. In fact, they will be able to examine the expenditure of the funds under the operational programmes and reallocate funds as they see fit within those programmes. That is a substantial change in terms of the quality of action the new regional authorities will be able to take. It also indicates that they will have a much more substantial role than they had heretofore. That has also been agreed in Brussels and the fact that the agreements were signed on 27 November with Commissioner Barnier and some representatives of the regional authorities is indicative of where the future lies with regard to the regional assemblies.
These new bodies will take on additional roles and powers. Will they take on some of the functions of the Department or the functions of the local authorities? If they are gaining power, who is losing power?
Obviously the local authorities have their delegated power under various Acts. That will not be diluted in any way but the regional assemblies are being given the authority that all of us who have served on local authorities over the years have wanted. That enhances the local authority role as well because there will be a feed in by way of the representatives, the members themselves and the county managers, etc. who will be involved in this process. The whole process of local government will be substantially enhanced by this new approach and I think it is welcomed by all the political parties.
If this authority and power is to be delegated it will need funding. Will that funding be delegated from the Department of the Environment and Local Government or will it have independent funding?
All the funding is provided through the national development plan, which embodies the Community Support Framework programme for the same period, but the introduction for the first time of regional operational programmes managed at a regional rather than a central level is a major innovation under the national development plan. Perhaps Members did not hear me say it will act as the managing authority for the regional operational programme and as a managing authority it will have the same responsibilities and functions as a Government Department and will manage the inter-operational programmes. The monitoring committee will be chaired and the secretariat will be provided for the operational programme. They will initiate and co-ordinate proposals to change the programmes or to reallocate resources between measures. That is an enormous change.
On a point of information with regard to reallocating funding. Will it be reallocated from a specific Department?
It would be within an operational programme. The members might feel that within the various activities it might be more appropriate to move funds from one programme to another.
In which area of responsibility would that programme be?
It could be in any Department.
The most likely one, however, would be the Department of the Environment and Local Government.
It could be. There are various operational programmes - I do not have the list with me - and they would cover the spectrum.
The greatest fear among members to whom I have spoken, regardless of political affiliation, is that these authorities have, as yet, little or no function aside from talking. It is most important that some indication be given that these assemblies will be given a function other than talking, reporting and reviewing. Will they have the authority to acquire funding? Will they be given funding by a specific Department to disburse at local level?
The funding under the national development plan is set out. What we have done in this context is that rather than all decisions being taken by the Departments involved, such as the Department of the Environment and Local Government under the operational programmes, power or authority is delegated to the regional assemblies. The type of matters we are discussing are non-national roads, rural water, waste management, communications, sea ports, regional airports, culture, sport, recreation, tourism, fisheries, forestry, child care and equality. There are many programmes.
Will they only make recommendations in those areas?
No, they will monitoring and will chair the committee. The funding has been allocated under the national development plan. The authority will not only implement what it wants to do at regional assembly level but the review committee will be chaired at regional level. It is up to them to get on with spending the money. That is my view.
They have money to spend in other words.
There is more money than we can spend, I believe. Money is not the problem. It depends on the quality of the people in the regional assemblies, the quality of the programmes and initiatives and the innovative approaches they may take. There are existing structures for delivering many of the programmes and they will obviously stay in place. What everybody who has served at local level wants, however, is a more fundamental role at that level in terms of the decision making process. That is what this is about. Rather than decisions being taken at national level and handed down, the regional assemblies are now in a position to take decisions.
Will the programmes the Minister mentioned earlier reflect the designation of the BMW as against other areas within the national plan? In other words, will they be heavily weighted towards the BMW region as it was originally designed?
The BMW region is an Objective One region. The southern and eastern region is an Objective One region in transition. Already that creates substantial differences. In the note I read to the committee, I pointed out the difference in the funding support. The funding will be co-funded by the regional development fund at a rate of 75% in the Border, midlands and western region and 50% in the southern and eastern regions. Clearly, the approach will be to skew the balance under the programmes in favour of the BMW region to bring it to an equal level of activity and economic success with the rest of the country.