I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Michael Kitt, to take Committee Stage of the Passports Bill 2007. I also welcome Mr. Ray Bassett, Mr. John McCullagh and Miss Nuala Ní Mhuircheartaigh from the Department of Foreign Affairs. I invite the Minister of State to make his introductory remarks, following which I will turn to section 1 of the Bill.
Business of Select Committee.
Before we do that, I would like to make one point. We do not all read our e-mails as vigilantly as we should. If we are to discuss legislation, we should receive a telephone call. It was by the grace of God that I received the e-mail late last Thursday evening and it was difficult to table the amendments by 11 a.m. the next day. I would appreciate if we received notice of such meetings. In addition, this meeting was scheduled to start 11 a.m. I am also a member of the Joint Committee on European Affairs which is meeting at 11.30 a.m. I know Deputy Shatter must attend the meeting of the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children, although I am sure he can speak for himself. The way in which this meeting has been scheduled is unsatisfactory.
The Joint Committee on Education and Science is also meeting.
I appreciate that there are new committee staff, but we raised certain issues at the last meeting. I am particularly unhappy with the way in which this matter has been dealt. I received no e-mail. The first I knew of the date by which amendments were to be submitted was during a telephone discussion with Deputy Timmins on Friday afternoon. Each member of the committee should have received advance notice of the cut-off date for tabling amendments. It is appalling that we did not. No committee should operate on that basis.
There is a real organisational problem. Some of the provisions contained in the Bill have important implications for children's law, including passports for children and procedures in the event of difficulties between parents. The first meeting of the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children is scheduled for noon. Therefore, I cannot be here from that time. It is just not appropriate that members of the committee are treated in this way. Some consideration should be given to other committees of which we are members. Deputy Timmins is a member of the Joint Committee on European Affairs. The Select Committee on Foreign Affairs will deal with legislation rarely, perhaps two or three times during the term of the Dáil.
In order that members of the Opposition would not waste their time tabling amendments on issues arising from Second Stage that the Minister was happy to deal with, I requested that we receive the Minister's amendments in advance and be given a timeframe in which to submit amendments to do with issues the Minister had not addressed. I appreciate that he was not obliged to do so, but none of this happened. It is most unfair, particularly to Deputies on this side.
I will raise the possibility of making telephone calls, in addition to the other notifications given by the Bills Office. The Minister will consider the other points raised.
I am unhappy that this discussion is to continue after 11.30 a.m. Deputy Timmins, the leader of the Fine Gael group on this committee, should be at another committee meeting and within ten or 15 minutes I must also attend another meeting. It is a most unsatisfactory way to organise committee meetings. This is an important Bill which has implications. It is the first legislation dealing with passports in the history of the State. We should not have a ceremonial Committee Stage on which we do not tease out the issues involved seriously.
The time was set by the committee in the first instance. Committee Stage must be completed either today or tomorrow. Therefore, the committee can come back tomorrow if the Deputy wishes, but we will do as much as we can today. We should get on with our business and see what progress we can make.
I do not understand why it must be completed either today or tomorrow. It has taken something like 80 years to produce this legislation. As Report Stage will not be taken before Christmas, I do not see the urgency. There is no deadline of tomorrow, of which I am aware. Will someone explain where this comes from?
That is the notification we received on time requirements, but we can check them further. If the Deputy let us proceed, we might make some progress.
The Dáil does not determine this matter. It is for the committee to determine-----
The committee decided it would meet today in the first instance.
Yes, but it is also for the committee to determine the time it needs to deal with the Bill. It is not based on an order from the Department of Foreign Affairs which would find it convenient to have it completed by tomorrow.
I will try to be helpful in arriving at a decision. The Bill cannot be dealt with quickly. Matters will arise in some amendments that the Minister of State may indicate his intention to accept. Some are housekeeping amendments on definitional issues and there is a complex background to, for example, the transgender matter. The Bill will require time. I am trying to be of assistance by giving an indication of the time.
I accept that. We could take a lunch break and return in the afternoon because the House will sit until 7 p.m. We could return tomorrow.
I would welcome the opportunity to consider further amendments that must be tabled. I did not discover the time by which I should table amendments until after it had passed because I did not receive notification as requested at the previous meeting. I checked, but I did not get an e-mail. At the previous meeting, we requested that members would be telephoned even had e-mails been sent, but it did not occur. If one does not have the e-mail telling one the date by which amendments should be tabled, I do not know how one can operate as a member of the committee. It is most unsatisfactory. We are not working to some other person's agenda, as it is for the committee to determine the timeframe. We are not the playthings of the Department of Foreign Affairs.
Would the Minister of State like to comment?
I mean this constructively because we need good legislation from these deliberations.
I do not have a role in the committee's decisions on when to meet. Like its members, I want to make progress. I thank the Opposition for its constructive role on Second Stage when we had a good debate. I hope the debate on Committee Stage will also be constructive.
I am available for whatever length of time is necessary to discuss the Bill. I would like to get started on the Bill if such is the committee's wish.
Is that agreed? Agreed. We will commence and continue for as long as necessary.
I do not mean to be obstructive. Deputy Shatter or other members may have wished to table amendments and are not in a position to do so because they missed the deadline. They will not be able to table amendments on Report Stage if the issues have not been raised on Committee Stage. Is there a way around that?
One can raise the issue on a section and table it on Report Stage. It does not need to be an amendment.
It is an unsatisfactory way to deal with Committee Stage of important legislation. Ministers and their officials need time to consider amendments and may need advice from the Attorney General's office. There is space between Committee and Report Stages to deal with those issues. Too frequently, there is a knee-jerk reaction to Opposition amendments on Report Stage and they are turned down.
I would not necessarily agree with the Deputy. Over the years, I have worked on many Bills. If an issue is mentioned and regarded as important, it is taken on Report Stage where the Minister can make changes.
The principle is that the committee is not a rubber stamp for legislation. It does not put legislation through willy-nilly in an unnecessarily tight timeframe specified to it. The manner in which the Bill is being dealt with is unsatisfactory. While it is not the Minister of State's fault, dealing with important legislation in this way is unfortunate if we are to do a serious job instead of simply going through the pretence of Committee Stage.
I agree with the Chairman that we should move on and see how far we get today. I would oppose Friday sittings at 24 hours notice. I do not mind Friday sittings if we get more notice, but many of us have constituency commitments that are difficult to reorganise.
We will proceed and see how far we can get today.
On the timeframe for concluding this morning, I would like to pursue serious issues with the Minister of State constructively. It may inconvenience others, but I would have no difficulty returning after lunch when the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children has concluded.
We will proceed, break at lunchtime and see how far we have gone. A quarter of an hour has passed.
Will we be able to defer amendments until the afternoon? Must we take them in sequence?
We will discuss them as they arise in the sections. If the Deputy wishes to note something for the next Stage, he can tell the committee that he wishes to table a relevant amendment on Report Stage.
I will be gone by 11.50 a.m. or 11.55 a.m., but I suspect we will not have reached the sections about which I am concerned.
We will proceed and see how far we get.