Special Committee Pigs and Bacon Bill, 1934 díospóireacht -
Thursday, 4 Apr 1935

SECTION 39.

(1) Wages payable to a workman employed at licensed premises shall be at a rate not less than the rate generally recognised by trade unions and employers as the rate normally applicable to workmen employed in a similar kind of work at licensed premises in similar localities.

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Deputy Keyes

I move amendment No. 24 :—

In sub-section (1) to delete all the words after the word " rate " in line 55, page 23, and to insert in lieu thereof the following words : " applicable to workmen employed in a similar kind of work at licensed premises."

I suggest that the phrasing of the section is very wide, and that it is necessary to have it clarified. If a person is working at a particular trade in licensed premises he should be compensated in like measure to men performing similar work in similar institutions.

Minister for Agriculture

I do not think that is a principle that holds in every industry. The clause was practically taken from the Cereals Act dealing with flour mills, as it was recognised there might be large flour mills working at ports, or in other areas, where wages were higher than they would be in small inland towns. The clause was drafted so that factories in places of a similar size should pay the same wages. It was not considered that in all factories, even though the same work was being done, the men should get the same wages. Conditions in the localities were taken into account. If you take a provincial town where wages are lower than in other provincial towns, and factories about the same size, there would be a case for making the wages up to that point, but not up to the wages in big cities. That was the principle we tried to follow in this Bill. Small factories in inland towns are not able to have bacon produced on the same terms as big factories.

Deputy Keyes

They pay no more for their pigs.

Minister for Agriculture

That is true. They pay the same price and perhaps have not to send their bacon away for sale. They may not do as well as bacon produced at the ports. The case made against that is that they have not to pay as high wages.

Deputy Dillon

In any case a factory dealing with 10,000 pigs can afford to pay a higher rate of wages than a factory dealing with 500 pigs.

Minister for Agriculture

There is not as big an output per man in the smaller factories.

Deputy Keyes

Another amendment in the name of Deputy T. J. Murphy suggests that in the event of a joint council being established conditions similar to what was contained in the flour-milling legislation might be desirable towards balancing and shaping some standard. I recognise that there should be some analogy between the size of factories paying similar rates.

Deputy Belton

What relation will there be between the rate of labour in these places and people who feed pigs ?

Minister for Agriculture

That is the big difficulty.

Deputy Dillon

May I raise an interesting point of order ? Is it not open to any member of Dáil Eireann, irrespective of whether he is a member of this Committee or not, to set down amendments for discussion by this Committee ?

Chairman

He must be a member.

Deputy Dillon

Is Deputy Murphy a member of the Committee ?

Chairman

He is. Are amendments Nos. 24 and 25 to be withdrawn ?

Minister for Agriculture

I do not want to leave Deputy Keyes under any misapprehension. I may consider amendment No. 26, but it is extremely difficult to embody such an amendment in the Bill. If a council is set up that would be one of the conditions in setting it up. Where it comes to any agreement the recommendation will be adopted and will be binding.

Deputy Keyes

What is the Minister's intention in the section as set down ?

Minister for Agriculture

The intention would be that if either side were anxious to have a council set up, the Minister would do his best to get the other side to agree.

Deputy Keyes

And in regard to employees with similar work ?

Minister for Agriculture

What I have in mind is that if you take a town like Kildare, and if there was a factory in Portarlington, if he wanted to regulate wages we would probably regulate them on the Kildare model, rather than on the Limerick model. Kildare would be a fair comparison. Both are inland towns, and probably the same wages rule in these towns.

Deputy Keyes

Provided either of them would offer a fair analogy in wages.

Minister for Agriculture

There is a very good chance that workers would look around and get what they considered the more favourable comparison. They are brought to that level. That is the intention.

Amendment No. 24 withdrawn.

Amendments Nos. 25 and 26 not moved.

Section 39 agreed to.