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Decentralisation Programme.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 17 February 2004

Tuesday, 17 February 2004

Ceisteanna (11)

Joan Burton

Ceist:

97 Ms Burton asked the Minister for Finance if a survey has been carried out generally to establish the number of public servants willing to transfer to new locations under his decentralisation proposals; if the move will be voluntary and if no public servant will suffer in regard to career options or promotional opportunities if they do not wish to move to a new location; if an assessment has been made of the potential total cost of the decentralisation programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4831/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (7 píosaí cainte)

I have not undertaken a survey of civil servants or public servants to ascertain the numbers who wish to transfer to each of the locations included in the decentralisation programme. Conducting such a survey in advance of clearer time lines for the sequencing of all the various moves would be of limited value. The decentralisation programme will operate on a voluntary basis. Civil and public servants who do not wish to transfer to a decentralised location will be assigned to alternative posts in Dublin. The exact procedures which will apply will be dealt with as part of the implementation process, which is being driven by the implementation committee and will be discussed with the public service unions.

Decentralisation will change the way in which the public service operates in the future. In the case of promotion prospects, there will continue to be, broadly speaking, the same opportunities across the Civil Service and public service. The new programme will create a wider range of work and career opportunities for individuals working outside Dublin than is currently the case. Public servants who aspire to senior management positions will no longer have to migrate to the capital, although many may continue to do so. Similarly, individuals serving in Dublin will be able to pursue their careers within Dublin, but many may choose to avail of promotion opportunities in decentralised offices.

As regards the cost, the Deputy will be aware that rented offices in Dublin are significantly more expensive than those available outside the capital. By vacating existing leased or State-owned property in Dublin, the costs of new accommodation in the regions can be minimised. The programme will operate on a voluntary basis and, therefore, neither removal expenses nor redundancy will be paid. Some additional costs may arise under headings such as travel and subsistence, staff training and technology. The wider economic benefits, particularly better use of regional infrastructure and reduced demand on infrastructure in Dublin, must also be taken into account. I am confident this programme will serve as a catalyst for further economic benefit in provincial Ireland.

As regards the Minister's statement about clearer time lines for the sequencing of moves and transfers out of Dublin, is that coded language for saying that the decentralisation programme will take longer than the three years advertised in the budget? What are the clearer time lines? Is the Minister talking about the ten year period which has frequently been described as the time required? Is he aware of surveys carried out in a number of Departments that indicate that only approximately 7% to 10% of civil servants in FÁS, the Department of Agriculture and Food, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and other Departments are willing to move out of Dublin? If those surveys are representative or if the Minister wants to challenge them, will he carry out independent surveys? However, if those surveys are a correct reflection of attitudes to decentralisation, will the taxpayer have to foot the bill for the hundreds of civil servants who will be left in Dublin with no clear function? What will the Minister do with those civil servants? Will there be penalties if people fail to transfer? I draw the Minister's attention to the recent advertisement for a senior post in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform which stated that the applicant must be willing to serve outside Dublin. Perhaps the Minister will comment on that.

The time line to complete this programme is 31 December 2006 and I hope that will be met. We chose that date to put pressure on Ministers and Departments to ensure it is done before a certain event occurs in the summer of 2007. I make no apologies for saying that, it will put pressure on Ministers and politicians to ensure it is delivered.

I am aware of newspaper speculation about some surveys of limited numbers of staff in various organisations. It is not my intention to ask the Department of Finance to conduct a staff survey. It took four years to make this decision and we will ensure it happens.

The attitude of some people and commentators since we made the decision is totally at variance with what they said four years prior to the decision, when they were of the view that we would not make the decision, but if we did it would be good. Now that we have made the decision, they are saying it will not succeed and we should not have made it. It is a case of having one's cake and eating it.

As regards Dublin civil servants, there will still be plenty of public servants post-decentralisation in the Dublin region. There will be a large number of civil and public servants in the Dublin region and there will be ample work for them to do. As regards the recent advertisement for a vacancy in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, that was the proper and correct thing to do. Anyone now aspiring to higher posts in the Civil Service will have to be aware that eight of the Departments will move outside Dublin and that a large number of public and civil servants will be based outside Dublin. People should be under no illusion of their responsibilities after our decision last December on decentralisation.

As the Minister is aware, St. Valentine's Day has just passed. Does the Minister have any consideration for a couple, both of whom are civil servants, who may have two children with child care costs of between €800 and €1,200 per month? One may be moved to Killarney with the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and the other to Wexford with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Will the Minister take into account the impact on families in circumstances such as these? The Tánaiste has spoken of the need for the Government to have family-friendly policies. What will happen to the civil servants who refuse to move for family or other reasons, especially in cases where they provide specific technical expertise, as do many of those in FÁS? How will jobs be found for such people? They cannot all transfer into watching contracts in the Office of Public Works for the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon.

We must move on to the next question as we have exceeded the time for this one.

How does the Minister propose to deal with these issues?

Along with other Ministers, I have repeatedly said this is a voluntary programme. Given that and with the wide decentralisation, it will be possible to meet most people's requirements. Under this programme, full Departments are moving to provincial locations. The map of Ireland after decentralisation will show large clusters of public and civil servants in various regions. It will therefore be possible for people to transfer both within their own Department and to other Departments. While it may not suit everybody to go to the new location of their office or Department, they can transfer to another Department in the region of their choice. The same will apply to the offices in Dublin. It should be possible to accommodate the wishes of everybody. As this is a voluntary programme every endeavour will be made to accommodate every public servant as best we can.

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