Leaving Certificate Applied Programme.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 19 February 2004

Thursday, 19 February 2004

Ceisteanna (7)

Liz McManus

Ceist:

7 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Education and Science if his attention has been drawn to concerns expressed by the national association of leaving certificate applied co-ordinators that the future of the course was under threat due to cutbacks in support services; the steps he will take to address the issues raised, particularly in view of the successful role the applied leaving plays in keeping at risk students at school; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5246/04]

Freagraí ó Béal (8 píosaí cainte)

Mr. N. Dempsey

I am aware of the concerns expressed by the group referred to by the Deputy. The leaving certificate applied programme is one of the options of the senior cycle structure. The programme has been introduced on a phased basis since 1995 and there are over 300 schools or centres offering the programme.

An intensive support service to assist with the introduction of this innovative and distinct programme into the second level education system was put in place in 1995. This service, dedicated solely to the LCA programme, was continued for a significant number of years, up to the end of the last school year. It would not be appropriate to have an intensive service like this, dedicated solely to the LCA, continue forever into the future. The LCA programme is, at this stage, well established in the education system.

Inservice training and support for the LCA programme is now, since the beginning of the present school year, provided by the broader second level support service. This service provides inservice and support for a number of second level programmes as well as the LCA. For well established programmes, this arrangement enables best use to be made of the expertise that has been developed and built up over a number of years and can be shared and utilised in a number of different but related areas.

The concerns expressed have been considered by the steering committee for the programme and officials of my Department recently met the director of the second level support service to further review the situation in the context of the new arrangements for inservice for the programme. The matter is being kept under review on an ongoing basis.

Ms O’Sullivan

I put it to the Minister that one of the points made by the association of leaving certificate applied co-ordinators, in a letter dated 29 January 2004, is that new co-ordinators in existing schools are still waiting for inservice training this year. This programme and its success are based on doing things differently for young people who may otherwise feel alienated from the education system. It has been highly successful for the young people for whom it is suited. Because the methodologies are different, classroom practice and behaviour are also different from the regular schoolroom. It is important that teachers are properly trained and equipped in order that they do not apply the old methods of teaching to this course. I put it to the Minister that these are genuine concerns and urge him to take these problems seriously. As it is a different way of teaching, it needs intensive preparation for teachers in order that it can do what it is intended to do.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I agree with everything the Deputy said. The only point of difference is whether a national association of co-ordinators is required or if it should be part of the remit of the second level support service, SLSS. I favour the phasing out of all of these different systems whereby there are co-ordinators for everything. There are so many different groups that we have almost arrived at a point where we need co-ordinators for the co-ordinators.

I accept what the Deputy said about inservice training. It is important that there is good inservice training for this programme which we should encourage. As the Deputy rightly said, the leaving certificate applied, LCA, programme will help many children who may not find their feet in the normal academic leaving certificate system. I strongly support the programme. The question is if we should consider a separate existence for all of these different bodies or if we should have a strong second level support service that will target inservice training and be able to provide it as required. I accept that there is a difficulty.

Ms O’Sullivan

The issue is that people have not been trained. I do not mind how the Minister deals with it as long as it is dealt with and people receive the appropriate training.

Mr. N. Dempsey

We are agreed on that.

Ms O’Sullivan

The point is I do not think anything is happening.

Ms Enright

The point being made by co-ordinators is that the level of support and inservice training for teachers on this course is not what it should be. This needs to be addressed. Is the Minister happy with this and will he ensure that, whichever section is looking after it, an adequate level of inservice training is provided, as was the case in the past?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I accept the point. There are a number of reasons for the difficulty, the reason we are reviewing the provision of inservice training. There is a high turnover of teachers for this programme in schools. When teachers change from the LCA programme in schools, there seems to be a lack of continuity in the dissemination of information and passing it on to new teachers. It also appears that teaching resources are not passed on and very often the incoming teacher has to start from scratch, perhaps without inservice training. Some of these issues can and should be dealt with by school management. However, I accept the point made about inservice training in regard to which we continue to be in contact with the SLSS.