Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 4 November 2004
5 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of his Department’s Dublin-based staff who have applied through the central applications facility for decentralisation for the proposed new location for his Department at Kilkenny, New Ross and Wexford; the grades of staff who have applied; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27607/04]
Amharc ar fhreagraA total of 495 applications had been received at the central applications facility at the priority cut-off date on 7 September, in respect of the 661 posts to be decentralised from my Department's Dublin offices and which are fillable through the CAF. A total of 31 staff from my Department's Dublin offices have applied for decentralisation to the Department's proposed four locations in the south east — Wexford, Kilkenny, New Ross and Waterford. I propose to circulate in the Official Report a tabular statement setting out the information on the grades. Some 139 staff of my Department have applied for decentralisation to other Departments or agencies.
The Department has drawn up and submitted to the decentralisation implementation group an implementation plan which sets out the broad issues to be addressed in implementing the decentralisation programme. It will be recalled that the Department has been to the fore in previous decentralisation programmes involving the movement of a range of sections to Shannon and Ballina in 1983 and subsequently in 1989. Furthermore, the Department supported the successful mobilisation and establishment of the EPA headquarters in Johnstown Castle, Wexford, in 1993-94.
The Department will co-operate with the Department of Finance, the implementation group and the Office of Public Works to ensure the Government's decentralisation policies are implemented efficiently and effectively.
|
Principal Officer |
3 |
|
Assistant Principal Officer |
3 |
|
Higher Executive Officer |
4 |
|
Administrative Officer |
3 |
|
Executive Officer |
5 |
|
Staff Officer |
1 |
|
Clerical Officer |
5 |
|
Accountant |
1 |
|
Inspector |
3 |
|
Senior Meteorological Officer |
1 |
|
Archaeologist |
1 |
|
Assistant Fire Adviser |
1 |
|
Total |
31 |
Do I understand from the Minister's reply that of the 660 jobs in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government which will be in Kilkenny, New Ross, Wexford and Waterford, only 5% of them have been applied for by existing staff of the Department? Do I, therefore, understand from that that if this Department is decentralised to these four locations, it will effectively have to be reconstructed, with 95% of its staff coming from outside the existing Department? What assessment has been made by the Minister or his Department of the cost of reconstructing the staff of the Department? What is the cost associated with the training which will be required if 95% of the staff have to come from outside? What assessment has been made of the loss of departmental memory which will result from the Department having to be reconstructed? What assessment has been made of the disruption of service to the public if the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has to be reconstructed, with 95% of its new staff coming from outside, in four different locations?
I will deal with some of the details because the Deputy is perhaps inadvertently exaggerating the nature of the problem. I will give him some idea of the figures. In the case of Wexford, there will be 249 CAF jobs. The number of applications made from the general service there is 228, or 92%. They are from all Departments.
How many are from the Minister's Department?
I am just making the point——
How many are from the Minister's Department? The question was about the applications from his Department.
The question——
On a point of order, my question concerns the number of applications from within the Minister's Department. I have not asked a question about the number of applications from outside the Department. I ask the Ceann Comhairle for his protection.
That is not a point of order. As the Deputy is aware, the Chair has no control over answers to questions.
I ask the Minister to confine his remarks to the question he was asked.
I will address the Deputy's specific point. As I indicated, 31 applications were received from within the Department.
That is equivalent to 5% of staff.
I wish to make a point regarding supplementary issues raised by the Deputy.
They were not related to figures.
They were about the workability of the Department in the context of the decentralisation programme. We will transfer talented people from other Departments. In the theory of public administration we operate, particularly in the context of the general services, the concept of mobility between Government Departments has been espoused, practised and praised for many years.
In the case of Wexford, to which 249 jobs will be decentralised, we have already received applications for 92% of available positions from the balance of the Civil Service. The applicants are talented, committed public servants who without doubt have the capacity to take up the jobs in which they will be placed. In the case of Kilkenny, to which 62 CIF jobs will be transferred, 77 applications have been made, which is 24% higher than required. I do not suggest there will be no difficulty. The Deputy could, perhaps correctly, point to the transfer of technical and specialist staff.
Will the Minister answer the question about loss of departmental memory?
I am making the point that in the concept of public administration we operate civil servants can transfer from one Department to another and regularly do so on promotion.
They do not all transfer at the same time.
People will bring vast experience from other Departments.
Has the Minister assessed the loss of departmental memory?
Given the manner in which public administration is designed, the issue of departmental memory is a canard, as the Deputy well knows.
What is a canard?
Let me inform the Deputy what is a canard. A canard is when a member of the public telephones the Department in Wexford and is told——
The situation is——
A canard looks and walks like a duck.
I find the comment from the member of the Green Party particularly bizarre given that his party argues there is over-concentration on Dublin.
I respect that the Minister has a sense of proportion and knows what difficulties the decentralisation process will create. Given that only 5% of staff from his Department have offered to move and the complexity of the issues with which his Department must deal, many of which are specialised, will he reconsider the proposed decentralisation of his Department in the manner announced? Every Deputy knows the proposal will not work if only 5% of staff agree to move.
The type of doomsday scenario described by the Deputy has not arisen in cases of decentralisation of whole sections. I suggest that rather than make false claims, it would be a good idea if every Member of the House threw their weight into making the decentralisation policy, which is good in terms of spatial strategy and the development of public service, work.
It is a daft policy.
It has no connection with the national spatial strategy.
