Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Ministerial Responsibilities.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 30 November 2004

Tuesday, 30 November 2004

Ceisteanna (5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

Enda Kenny

Ceist:

5 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the responsibilities of the Ministers of State attached to his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24035/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

David Stanton

Ceist:

6 Mr. Stanton asked the Taoiseach the Minister who has responsibility for e-Government; the further plans in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25350/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Trevor Sargent

Ceist:

7 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the responsibilities of Ministers of State in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26393/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

8 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the role and responsibilities of each Minister of State within his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27857/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Ceist:

9 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the responsibilities of each of the Ministers of State in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28845/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Joe Higgins

Ceist:

10 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the role and responsibilities of each of his Ministers of State. [30193/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (55 píosaí cainte)

I propose to answer Questions Nos. 5 to 10, inclusive, together.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

The Government appointed Deputy Kitt as Government Chief Whip and Minister of State at my Department and at the Department of Defence. Deputy Treacy was appointed as Minister of State at my Department and at the Department of Foreign Affairs with responsibility for European Affairs.

Deputy Treacy will play a key co-ordinating role in advancing preparations for the ratification of the treaty on the European constitution. He will also play a central role in consolidating and further developing Ireland's positive bilateral EU relations, which were enhanced by our successful EU Presidency, especially with the new member states. In addition to these duties, Deputy Treacy will undertake a heavy workload within the Department of Foreign Affairs through which he will represent Ireland at Minister of State level on European Union affairs, including the Communicating Europe initiative.

As Chief Whip, Deputy Kitt is primarily responsible for the organisation of Government business in the Dáil and for the Government's programme of Dáil reform. He oversees preparation of the Government's legislative programme and has responsibility for the Central Statistics Office. The Minister of State has been given the same range of responsibilities for the information society as his predecessor, Deputy Hanafin. Deputy Kitt has responsibility for co-ordinating the Government's strategy for the information society as set out in the policy document, New Connections.

As Deputies will appreciate, understanding of the challenges of living in an information society and knowledge economy is evolving rapidly. Fortunately, this is also true of our policy response in the areas of infrastructure and the development of e-Government applications. I have decided, therefore, to initiate a review of current arrangements, including those for interdepartmental co-ordination in this area. The review will be informed by a final report from the Information Society Commission, the mandate of which will be complete before the end of this year. Many Ministers have responsibility for direct provision in this area. The Cabinet committee on the information society is part of the framework within which these responsibilities are co-ordinated with the assistance of the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt. Following the review process, I envisage that new arrangements on co-ordination and advisory requirements will be put in place early in the new year. These arrangements will enable the Government to renew its efforts in this important area.

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. In the context of his communicating Europe initiative role, does the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, have responsibility for the implementation of the Lisbon Agenda in the area of competitiveness or is that strictly the responsibility of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment?

Deputy Kitt has been in contact with Opposition Whips on his proposals for Dáil reform. What are the terms of reference for the review of e-Government arrangements? The Taoiseach is aware of the report of the Information Society Commission which was published earlier this month. It stated clearly, and I am aware questions from Deputy Durkan and other Deputies will be dealt with later, that the pace of new generation broadband services is relentless, that Ireland is seriously lagging behind and that to achieve parity with EU averages a further 300,000 connections must be made.

We are anticipating questions later to the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

No. The Minister of State has responsibility for the information society and I am referring to the information——

The Deputy can make a passing reference but he can go into detail, as appropriate, with the line Minister. There are other questions——

The only passing reference I can make to the Information Society Commission is to the report it published, and that report comes under the aegis and responsibility of the Minister of State. That report stated that new generation broadband services are relentless, that Ireland is seriously lagging behind and that we need an additional 300,000 connections. Deputy Durkan has tabled questions about broadband but will the Taoiseach give me the terms of reference for the review and when he expects those to be published? Also, in respect of the Information Society Commission and e-Government, can the Taoiseach confirm that we will move in parallel with the business of wireless connection for broadband purposes?

To reply to the first question on the responsibilities of the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, practically all the Lisbon Agenda items come under either the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment or, in many cases, the Minister for Finance.

On the second question, it is hoped the final report of the Information Society Commission, Learning to Innovate, will be available before the end of the year. The remit of the Information Society Commission will run out at that time. It has been working for some time now and it has more or less finished its agenda in terms of what it was engaged in. It will issue a report on where it believes we should proceed now and the way we should co-ordinate issues.

On the Deputy's question about the areas, there are many Ministers involved. The Minister for Education and Science is involved in the schools aspect of ICT at first, second and third level, particularly the second level programmes. We, in my Department, have been doing a great deal of co-ordination on that in recent years but all the work is on the schools side. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, is involved in the mathematics programme moving out from the 19 areas to 67 areas and 123 areas of the country. As the Deputy said, the technology is moving. Even in the past three years I noticed that in many parts of the country the wireless technology was seen as ineffective, or it was considered that it was unrealistic to use it. That appears to be changing because many areas now use it. Also, the people who do the assembly work for the Sky TV box now have the capacity — I am not that knowledgeable on this — to span this out by way of a new product. They claim they can do that throughout most of the country. The range, use and effectiveness of doing this is moving apace and in terms of all the issues that exist it should dramatically change the connections and the fees. The Deputy has probably seen the advertisement by the Sky TV operators in terms of what they charge to do this and the costs are decreasing dramatically. That should extend the service.

There are many new areas. I do not want to pre-empt the work of the commission but some members of the commission have raised some issues with me. They say that research is showing the value of ICT and the new ways we can do things. They have highlighted the fact that this typically means innovation in the form of new work practices, skills and organisational structures. We started this seven or eight years ago but it has moved on apace. In the recent statement on broadband and 21st century infrastructure, the commission indicated that successful formulas will tend to be one part technology and nine parts innovation. It is increasingly looking beyond technology to a knowledge-based society. It highlights that it recognises human creativity as the ultimate economic resource and that the ability to come up with new ideas and better ways of doing things are becoming key success factors. Under Sustaining Progress, the Information Society Commission has been overseeing the knowledge society foresight exercise. The commission has worked with the social partners, NESC, Forfás, IDA Ireland and the Higher Education Authority. This exercise has explored the conditions to support and sustain wealth creation in an increasingly innovation-driven global economy by ensuring the costs and the benefits of accelerated change are distributed in an equitable way.

I do not want to pre-empt the final report but the commission states that there might be a broader way of doing this and, perhaps, more people should be involved in collaboration rather than only a few Departments. The policy should be more inclusive and take in people who do not have access to ICT. It states that a key issue in its work programme is to maintain momentum in the context of Sustaining Progress and shape the appropriate initiatives for taking this forward by ensuring ICT is available to people in more disadvantaged communities. That is happening because, in fairness to many ICT companies, they are providing considerable resources to set up facilities. That perhaps should be in education. One way or the other, as Deputy Kenny said, in regard to the structure that has operated for the past eight years, time has passed that by and I think the commission will recommend a new structure. I do not know what is in the final report but I can see from what these people are saying that a broader initiative is needed than the one that has been in place for the past eight years.

Where does Ireland stand in comparison to its competitors in regard to the e-government initiative? Are we dropping back? What action does the Government intend to take in this regard?

The Deputy is anticipating Questions Nos. 70 and 80 on the Order Paper for oral answer by the line Minister.

I apologise for anticipating something about which I knew nothing. I tabled those questions some time ago and, therefore, perhaps the Department anticipated them. I apologise, it was totally unintentional.

What is the cost of the public service broker initiative? Will the Government's target to have all its services on-line by 2005 be met? Does the Taoiseach agree with the finding that e-government advances are diminishing both domestically and internationally? Does he concur that social welfare recipients very often find it difficult to access information because they do not have computers? Does the Government intend to make technology more widely available to people accessing social welfare services who do not own or have access to computers and who have no training in this area?

As I did not anticipate all those questions, I do not have all the answers. However, I will address the general issue and, perhaps, the line Minister will address the specifics later. The Minister of State at my Department, Deputy Kitt, chairs the e-government committee. The development of polices in this area continues to be co-ordinated by the information policy unit in my Department and responsibility for implementing those policies rests with the relevant Ministers. The central e-government group includes my information policy unit while CMOD in the Department of Finance was established to address particular issues. It is trying to come to grips with the interoperability and identity management issues. The Government, via the Cabinet committee and the Information Society Commission, has agreed on more than 80 services, which have been identified by individual Departments as on-line priorities. This is growing rapidly. These services have been chosen based on their ability to provide benefits and economic viability. The Deputy asked about the Reach agencies. Reach is working with individual agencies on development of services for on-line delivery in keeping with the stated aim of having the services available by 2005. That is still the aim.

Subsequent to Government approval, work has commenced on development of a standardised framework for the public service card. The objective of this programme, known as Safe, is to develop a strategy which will enable all public service agencies to deliver token based services to citizens in a co-ordinated way. A steering group is being set up to deal with that.

On the issue of e-payments, the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance are currently in the process of drafting a memorandum on furthering the use of e-payments for the Civil Service and public service. We are trying to extend that. The Deputy is correct that there are those who do not have these services. The services are still there for people, even for payments. I answered questions on this recently. There are very few people on salaries left who do not use the direct payment system. The same is happening with people looking for services. I do not have the information with me but as far as I can recall enormous numbers of services now use direct payments. It is a bit like what happened with Revenue. It started off very slowly but now approximately 90% of the payments are made on-line. The same is happening even with the smallest of companies and in the agricultural community. That is why broadband is a big issue on the farming agenda, something I welcome. This surprises me a little, but individuals are using the schemes and I welcome what is happening in that area.

The last area for which I have responsibility is e-Cabinet. Phase one of the e-Cabinet system has been implemented. It went live last May and was officially launched prior to the summer. It provides for authoring and internal processing of all the memoranda in each Department into departmental consultation draft memoranda and for electronic submissions. It is operating and computerising the whole Cabinet secretariat. I do not want to say that everybody is an expert yet, but we are all trying, some like me harder than most. The Cabinet secretariat has been accepting electronic submission of memoranda for Government since June and Departments have been availing of the system on a voluntary basis. Developments are significant. An unplanned example out of the blue was a question which was asked about a memorandum drafted, circulated and submitted on the system some time ago as to what it gained. The gain was that it avoided having to print and deliver 10,000 sheets of paper in the system. Even for some of us sceptics this is a significant benefit. These changes do not happen over night but they are——

Can Deputy O'Dea log in directly to the Sunday Independent?

Or to the Army abroad.

It is just for information — not on Deputy O'Dea. It is planned to further augment the functionality in a number of phases during next year. There are three phases, namely, the provision of electronic briefing facilities for Ministers; key features facilities for Ministers and other high-level users; and post-meeting electronic compilation and circulation of documents direct from the Cabinet secretariat to Ministers. It is moving and will have benefits throughout the entire system. This is happening, by extension, to the Reach programme and the local government system and services.

Has the Taoiseach got figures on the cost?

I do not have the figures on cost.

I thank the Taoiseach for his extensive reply, particularly with regard to the responsibilities of the 15 Ministers of State, which presumably explains the €450,000 expenses announced in May 2004 for them. Did he omit one of the responsibilities that was referred to in the Irish Examiner of 6 October 2004 which referred to the requirement on Ministers of State to hold clinics for Fianna Fáil backbenchers, apparently on the orders of the Taoiseach? Is that responsibility to be extended to other Members of the House or is it exclusively for Fianna Fáil? Are the Progressive Democrats included in that as well?

The question relates to duties of Ministers of State.

It is an onerous responsibility that is to be carried out on the express wishes of the Taoiseach. Is it available to any of the rest of us in the House, given that Ministers of State are responsible to all the people, many of whom elected Members on this side of the House?

I am always available to talk to Deputy Sargent.

I refer to the responsibilities of Ministers of State. The Taoiseach did not state in his reply if he counted it among their responsibilities.

No, because I am not responsible to the House for party matters. However, it is good for party members who are honoured to be in privileged positions to talk to those who are not yet in that position.

And the lapses they discover.

What about the Independent Deputies?

They are Ministers of State and as office holders they are responsible to all the people, not just Fianna Fáil members.

The Taoiseach is not responsible for the party activities of Ministers of State.

He is responsible for Ministers of State.

Have delegation orders been made, if appropriate, in the case of the Ministers of State? Have delegation orders been made in general by Ministers for their Ministers of State since the reshuffle? Regarding the responsibilities of the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, in the communicating Europe initiative or, more pertinently, preparing for the referendum, is he part of any co-ordinating network at European level? The first state will hold a referendum on 20 February 2005. The Taoiseach has not been specific but if we are to hold a referendum towards the end of 2005, we would need to be well up and running in the months before the summer to ensure there is no repetition of the experience with the Nice treaty and so on. Will he generally say a word on that area?

I would be glad to. European Ministers meet more or less on a monthly basis at European level and they co-ordinate their programmes at that level. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, has by and large continued the same work and positions as the former Minister of State with responsibility for that area, Deputy Roche. He represents Ireland at all EU meetings at Minister of State level on European issues generally and at other meetings.

A group within Government meets regularly on European issues. It is not a new development and it concentrates on preparatory work. It has prepared the first document on European issues, which has been circulated widely. It is working on a more extensive document which it is hoped will be produced early in the new year. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, is also involved in the preparation work of the referendum commission and co-operates with the parties and the representatives in the Forum for Europe, meeting the education sector and the various elements of the social partners. An extensive programme will commence from the beginning of January.

I assure Deputy Rabbitte that a great deal of effort and work is taking place. I am trying to get everything completed so that whatever date we ultimately choose will comply with the 90-day rule. We should have all the work completed early at all levels, probably by Easter. I have informed the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, and all the people involved who are doing the preparatory work that they should make themselves available from the start of 2005 to give extensive briefings to whatever groups or organisations require them. I also know that many other groups on the "pro" side are making similar plans and, where it is suitable or fits in, the Government will also help them as they are, by and large, non-political.

In regard to the communicating Europe initiative, I have said frankly to President Barroso that commissioners should be much more active in explaining the benefits of the Commission. If it is not impolite to say so, I suggest that they should put themselves about a bit and explain what they do and how they do it as they are in the best position to do so. I have asked for this to be done extensively in this country, but it should be done everywhere.

To the best of my knowledge, the delegation orders to which Deputy Rabbitte referred are complete and most of them are through, although I will have to check.

Will the Taoiseach advise the House if either Ministers of State in his Department or both have a particular responsibility with regard to the peace process? For instance, we know that the North-South Ministerial Council and the relevant areas of co-operation come under the direct remit of the Department of Foreign Affairs. In that context, has any particular function in the Department of the Taoiseach been allocated to either of the Ministers of State? I acknowledge the experience and role of the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Kitt, in his previous portfolio. Will the Taoiseach consider widening the roles of his Ministers of State in this area, particularly given that we are hopefully facing the restoration of the institutions and North-South work? In that context, does he believe there is merit in widening the responsibility within his Department and apportioning further responsibility and functions to Ministers of State, given that when — not if — all that is achieved, there will be a responsibility not only on the Government but also on the Oireachtas to step up its activity in this area significantly?

I agree with the Deputy's use of the word "hopefully". No particular responsibility has been assigned but obviously the Ministers of State assist me in North-South, east-west and British-Irish Council work. The Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, has been very active in this work for several years and continues to work closely with me on these issues within the Department, time permitting, because he has an expertise in this area. If we get the institutions up and running again, a number of line Departments will work on North-South issues. We never stopped work on the implementation bodies or in other areas outside them and we will continue with that work.

If the process gets up and running again, we will step up work in areas in which we have not been able to make progress, not only since the institutions were suspended but since some Ministers, mainly from the Democratic Unionist Party, were not actively engaged in North-South work. It is to be hoped we will not be in such a situation again where a party is effectively in the system but also outside it. It is to be hoped we are not back to that again.

Will the Taoiseach inform the House if the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, is happier with his appointment than his predecessor, who was eminently unhappy when she was made responsible for Government business? Will the responsibility for EU matters of the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Treacy, involve him being the director of the Government's referendum campaign on the proposed new EU constitution? What instructions has the Taoiseach given him in that regard? Has he given the Minister of State a date for when he is considering holding the referendum on the constitution? How much notice will the Irish people get so they can have a proper discussion on the matter?

Finally, given that this constitution is a right wing, neo-liberal document, providing for the European armaments industry and battle groups abroad, and that it is certain the Irish people will reject it——

The Deputy is going outside the scope of the questions.

——will the Taoiseach accept the first result if they reject it rather than making them vote until he gets the right result?

The Deputy has gone well outside the scope of the questions.

I have given no responsibility at this stage to anybody to direct a campaign. What we are doing, with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, is co-ordinating in advancing preparations for the ratification of the European constitution. We have not decided on a date but there is a broad timeframe. We know when it must be ratified. Before a referendum takes place, as I told Deputy Rabbitte, we wish to ensure there is a national dialogue on the European constitution based on clear and accurate information. That requires us to do as much work as we can to prepare the ground for that.

This constitution contains an enormous amount of helpful and positive provisions, including on the charter of fundamental rights and on issues relating to the social and workers' agenda. These are enormously important as they set out people's rights in a clearer and more transparent way than has been done previously. The constitution will replace all the treaties which have been passed previously. For that reason there is broad support for it, not only in this country but also elsewhere.

With regard to e-government, does the Taoiseach agree it is most important that the information on Government websites is reviewed regularly by the Ministers concerned? The website of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was, up to four weeks ago, advertising the first-time buyer's grant two years after it was abolished——

That is a question for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

——which is a disgrace.

That is progress.

The Deputy should put down a question to the Minister.

Does the Taoiseach agree that his Ministers ought to examine the information on their Departments' websites regularly to ensure it is up to date? Second, will the Taoiseach examine websites such as that of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government which are impossible to navigate? They are so out of date, one cannot use them. Does the Taoiseach agree it is a disgrace that such information is being offered to the public by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government as an model of e-government?

That is a matter for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Will the Taoiseach deal with that? Is that how e-government should be?

It is e-confusion.

Maybe it will be back tomorrow; they could be ahead of time.

I will highlight that. It is a valid point.

I have already highlighted it to him and look at what happened.

Try it once again——

I will send him an e-mail.

——but do not expect any result.

If he can get onto the website, he will be doing well.

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