Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 1 December 2005
7 Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the efforts his Department has made to reduce housing waiting lists; if these efforts were carried out in conjunction with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37252/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra21 Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when the rental assistance scheme will be fully operational throughout the country; the financial and personnel provision that will accompany the scheme; the provisions for co-ordination between his Department and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government that have been made regarding the administration of the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37304/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra27 Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of persons who were receiving rent supplement for more than 18 months and have subsequently been housed under the rental accommodation scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37283/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra38 Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if his Department has worked with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to reduce social housing waiting lists; the work to date in 2005 and its progress; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37253/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra60 Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if the new rental assistance scheme is intended to be a long-term housing option for housing applicants; if so, the categories of persons to whom this option will be available; the length of time he anticipates housing applicants will be engaged in the scheme before a long-term housing solution will be offered in the event that it is not to be a long-term housing solution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37288/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra85 Ms Enright asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his views on whether the rental accommodation scheme has been a success; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37282/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra96 Ms Enright asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he or his officials have held recent meetings with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government on the rental accommodation scheme; when these meetings were held; the outcome of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37281/05]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 21, 27, 38, 60, 85 and 96 together.
Reducing local authority housing waiting lists is a matter for my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, and neither I nor my Department has any direct role in that regard. However, under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, administered on my behalf by the community welfare division of the Health Service Executive, a weekly or monthly rent supplement is available to assist eligible people who are unable to meet their immediate accommodation needs through their own resources.
In recent years, a significant number of people have come to rely on rent supplements for extended periods, including people on local authority housing waiting lists. In response to this, the Government has introduced a new rental assistance arrangement giving local authorities specific responsibility for meeting, on a phased implementation basis, the longer-term housing needs of people receiving rent supplement for 18 months or more. When fully operational, local authorities will meet the housing needs of these individuals through a range of approaches, including the traditional range of social housing options, the voluntary housing sector and, in particular, a new public private partnership-type rental accommodation scheme. These arrangements are intended to comprise a long-term housing option for the people concerned. Some €19 million has been transferred from my Department's Vote for 2005 to that of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to finance this initiative and similar arrangements will apply in 2006 and succeeding years as the new arrangements are implemented.
The rental assistance arrangements will also cater for new applicants for rent supplements and people who have been receiving rent supplement for less than 18 months, as long as the local authority is satisfied they have a long-term housing need. These people will be eligible for some form of assistance from their local authority under the scheme, be it contracted rental accommodation, voluntary housing or a local authority house. Local authorities are in the process of negotiating with landlords to form a stock of contracted accommodation.
The new arrangements are being implemented in 11 local authority areas and arrangements are due to be initiated in all local authority areas by the end of 2005. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has indicated that 56 tenants have been accommodated under the rental accommodation scheme by November of this year and that a further group of up to 200 will be accommodated this December. An initial independent evaluation of the implementation process will be undertaken in 2006 and it will consider remaining issues. Some 59,677 households are in receipt of assistance under the rent supplement scheme. Over half of these, almost 33,000 tenants, have been on the scheme for 18 months or more. My Department and the Health Service Executive are actively assisting the local authorities and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in implementing the new arrangements. For example, the latter Department has been supplied with detailed information on the 33,000 people who have been on rent supplement for 18 months or more.
Does the Minister agree that the target set earlier this year has been missed totally? Will he confirm what the target was when the scheme was first introduced? Was it not to deal with 5,000 cases by the end of this year? Will he explain why only 56 families have been transferred? Will he guarantee that this figure will increase to 356 by the end of this year?
Is the Minister confident that the scheme will work in spite of the failure so far to meet the very modest target to deal with 5,000 cases by the end of this year and given that 33,000 people are awaiting transfer? If the scheme is unsuccessful, as has been the case to date, what action will the Minster take to alleviate the obvious hardship suffered by people dependent on the emergency payment made under the community welfare schemes? What has gone wrong? Why is the scheme not working as the Minister had planned?
I acknowledge that the progress has been disappointing. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government tells me it will accommodate 256 people under the rental accommodation scheme by the end of the year. It reckons that up to 33,000 households could benefit eventually under the new arrangements. This would probably cost over €120 million.
I do not have a note on any particular targets, nor do I recall a target as large as the one suggested. The target is 33,000, in the sense that this is the number of people on the database who have been on rent supplement for over 18 months and who are therefore technically eligible under the scheme.
My colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, is pressing ahead to determine whether more progress can be made under the scheme. This is the correct approach although progress to date has been disappointing.
I would be appalled if 33,000 people were transferred under the rental accommodation scheme. They need to have their own houses and should not be subject to these short-term arrangements. Having said that, the scheme has some merits.
In the case of the 56 people who have benefited from the scheme and the further 200 who are to benefit therefrom by the end of the year, is only one landlord involved in the areas where the scheme is piloted? I have been told that, in the case of the Iveagh Trust, in co-operation with Dublin City Council, 50 persons were accommodated by one landlord. It is significantly different to negotiate with one landlord as opposed to many landlords.
A great deal of negotiation takes place between local authority personnel, landlords and tenants but no additional assistance has been given to local authorities. The Health Service Executive will be relieved of this task and local authorities will assume it. Will the Minister provide assistance by way of personnel to carry out this work? It is unrealistic to expect this scheme to be implemented if the staff are not available to do it. We will see local authority staff chasing around housing estates trying to find landlords with whom they can negotiate. That is hugely time consuming. The local authorities are also concerned about a range of legal issues. The modus operandi of this scheme will indicate whether it will be successful. Can the Minister say if the negotiations were with individual landlords or a group of landlords?
The information I have received from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is that 56 have been accommodated, with up to 256 being accommodated by the end of the year. I do not have a breakdown of whether that is one scheme or a number of schemes. I can get that information for the Deputy. Given how small the number is, I assume it is a small number of schemes as opposed to 256 individually rented houses.
With regard to staff, obviously the pressure will move to the local authority as the scheme proceeds. I expect the rate of transfers to accelerate significantly over the coming months, particularly through the voluntary housing sector. New template contract arrangements have recently been put in place to enable local authorities to engage additional landlord accommodation capacity under the scheme through a variety of mechanisms. As these additional units start to come on stream, the rate of transfer of people to the scheme should accelerate. Clearly, if there are staffing and resource implications, both Departments will have to address them.
A number of counties were used to pilot this, one of which was County Westmeath. To what extent have those counties achieved the projected outcome with regard to the use of the RAS? Could people who are offered a house by a local authority in an area in which they do not wish to live decide to stay where they are under the RAS? Is there evidence of that emerging? They might wish to stay where they are for a few years rather than move to another area where they might have no relations, for example, moving from the north to the south of a county.
The objective should be that moneys that were spent on this should be used to build a significant number of houses to ensure that these people do not remain within the private rented system for a long time. Is that not the best way out of housing poverty and adverse housing conditions? Is it not an indictment of the Government that the former Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, changed the Planning and Development Act 2000? Many of the people who now find themselves in difficult circumstances would have been far better off if the Government had been sufficiently committed to carry through the objectives passed by this House in that Act.
The rental accommodation scheme is a new, additional housing option whereby a person can opt for either medium or long-term private rented accommodation or social housing or for both. There is a choice. A person can opt to remain in private rental type accommodation provided by the local authority if that best suits the person's needs. Obviously, providing permanent accommodation is the answer. It takes people off the rental schemes and provides them with permanent homes. As always, having that type of security of ownership is better than renting. However, many issues must be worked out as the scheme is implemented. The Deputy asked if people would stay where they are or move. It is a new scheme and they can opt to take part in it or not to take part in it.
The Deputy is correct that the negotiations with landlords should be quality negotiations to ensure that we do not inherit a cadre of landlords who do not look after their tenants. However, there is also strong landlord and tenant legislation on the Statute Book which should give some comfort in that regard.
The overall number of houses built is substantial although there appears to be more to do on the social housing side.
A lot more to do.
The Minister said three options are available. Of the 56 that have been completed so far, can he give a breakdown as to whether they were voluntary housing, local authority housing or other housing? Of the 200 more that are due to be completed, can he say where they will be facilitated? Given that the two Departments have missed the target for the end of this year, what is their target for the end of next year to judge this scheme? So far, it has failed dismally. What is the target for next year, if any?
The ultimate target as of today is, presumably, 33,000 but there is no date for that. We must press ahead and do as much as we can. That number might not remain static because people come in and out of rent supplement. However, that figure is the current number in rent supplement for over 18 months so that remains the target. The number could change if large numbers were to suddenly vanish from the scheme.
What are the chances of that?
I do not have a breakdown of the 56. The impression I get from the file is that it is substantially rented accommodation.
Private rented.
Yes. I will clarify it for the Deputy but that is my impression at present.
I did not hear the Minister respond to Deputy Penrose's question about the number of places in the pilot schemes and whether they have been realised. Cork city has one of the pilot schemes and, to my knowledge, while there is negotiation between the city council and the voluntary organisation, the 50 places in question will not be in place by the end of this year. I hope that 50 is not being counted in the total number of 256 given by the Minister. A treble subsidy is given by the State to many private landlords. There is tax relief for building apartment accommodation, tax relief on the rent received from rental accommodation and, as the Minister has mentioned on several occasions, the State pays 40% of all accommodation costs in the State. Is the Minister discussing with his Cabinet colleagues the option of getting rid of this? It must be the only area in which people who own property are getting a treble subsidy from the State.
The new arrangements are being implemented in 11 local authority areas and arrangements are due to be initiated in all local authority areas by the end of 2005. I can let the Deputy have the names of the areas. Clearly, with 56 completed, they are not widely spread.
Tax reliefs are a matter for the Minister for Finance. He is reviewing the tax breaks across a range of industries, including construction, in the context of the forthcoming budget. He will deal with that issue. What was the Deputy's other question?
I asked about the treble subsidy and the fact that 40% of all rental subsidies are paid by the State.
A substantial amount of taxpayers' money goes into construction in this country, through pension funds, rent allowances, capital allowances and so forth. If one adds it all together, a great deal of taxpayers' money is fuelling the construction boom we are experiencing at present. I agree we should take an overview of that.
Is there a timescale for the roll-out of this scheme? A similar question was asked but I did not hear the answer. With regard to saving money in the long term, is there evidence that this is happening? Some of the officers involved in the scheme have suggested that because the landlords are getting guaranteed tenants for a certain period, the rents are decreasing. Are there savings for the State? Does the Minister agree that with the population we are discussing, the solution is to provide long-term social housing? Affordable housing and shared ownership, laudable by themselves, are not going to help the people on this scheme.
The timeframe is such that arrangements are being put in place to ensure that all local authority areas initiate the scheme by the end of the year. Clearly it will be into next year before the process is concluded. Some months ago there was evidence that rents were decreasing or levelling off. As Deputy Stanton has stated, it is important that limits are not set that would push up rents, as many people in the State pay rent. This could easily happen. There is recent evidence that rents are beginning to harden once more and we should monitor the issue closely to ensure that an adequate level of rent support is provided without facilitating rises in rent.
With regard to the Deputy's point of social housing being the answer, it is only part of the solution. Many people on rent supplement for more than 18 months aspire to going out into the private housing market themselves at some stage. Our job is to help them get there if that is their wish.
It is based on the last year's income so taking the 18-month timeframe, it is a long way down the road.
If we had an immediate stock of social housing, it would be the answer. As we move down the road we will have a choice for people between rental, voluntary, social and private housing etc. To have a range of options under this scheme is probably the right way to go as one option may not necessarily suit everybody.
When was the €19 million transferred? Was it intended to cover all of 2005 or is the intention that the funding will roll into 2006 and 2007? If it does not roll into 2006 and 2007, will further moneys be transferred from the Minister's Department to the other Department next year? If the €19 million was for 2005, how many houses will it provide? Will the Minister confirm the Department of the Environment and Local Government's target of 5,000 for the end of this year, of which I was informed by way of a parliamentary question last June?
The €19 million was designated for 2005 and we did not have an agreement on the number of houses it would supply. It is current money as well as capital in that sense. It is given to the Department of the Environment and Local Government which may use it for acquiring a supply of rented accommodation, if necessary, but can also use it for capital purposes. It is between definitions. The €19 million is to begin the scheme and to get on with the projects. There will not be a second tranche in 2006.
Will the €19 million roll into 2006?
The €19 million has not been spent.
I would hope not. Does it roll into 2006?
I will not transfer any more until that is spent. It rolls into 2006. The funding was transferred to the Department of the Environment and Local Government from my Department and it will move the schemes forward. If additional funding is required, that Department will get back in touch with my Department. We will be able to go beyond that figure for 2006 and 2007 if the output is produced.
I call Question No. 8 as we have gone over allotted time.
I wish to ask a question relating to Question No. 60. Does the Minister consider that the residential assistance scheme will replace the provision of social housing for any category of people on it? If so, what will the category of people be? I am surprised by the Minister stating that people who would qualify for a rental assistance scheme or support from a community welfare officer would have any prospect of purchasing a house. They would not qualify for a loan of any description, be it a local authority loan or otherwise. I do not see how there can be a transition for that group of people from rental assistance to owning their own homes.
I take the Deputy's point that there may not be many prospects. I have met many of these people in my political career and many have the ambition or aspiration to do so.
Of course they do.
Our role is to help these people realise these aspirations of getting on the ladder. Rent allowance for rental accommodation is part of this process, as is the mortgage supplement. I would not set limits to where people in that difficulty can rise.
It is impossible.
My approach to the entire brief is not to block or categorise people by stating that people cannot reach a certain goal. I want people to look at the stars and believe they can go there, and I look to help them on their way. This is not meant to replace social housing which is only one of the options.
