Gerry Adams
Ceist:1Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the publication of his Department’s Strategy Statement 2011-2014. [21605/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraDepartmental Strategy Statements
Ceisteanna (23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
Micheál Martin
Ceist:2Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach his Department’s role in tackling the jobs crisis as outlined in his Department’s strategy statement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23883/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:3Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the policy areas for which he or his Department are specifically responsible; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23751/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:4Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if his Department is adequately staffed to allow for implementation of the full Programme for Government as outlined in his Department’s Strategy Statement 2011-2014; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24818/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:5Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the way he plans to promote further transparency from his Department as outlined in the Strategy Statement 2011-2014; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24819/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (18 píosaí cainte)
I propose to answer Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together. The statement of strategy from my Department, published in March, reflects the considerable process of change and restructuring the Department has undergone since I took office. The Department of the Taoiseach, in its position at the centre of Government, has a very important role to play in supporting me and the rest of Government as we work to secure Ireland's future.
The statement of strategy outlines the key strategic priorities to be focused on in the period to 2014. These areas are jobs and growth; Europe; the programme for Government; service; trust; reform; fairness; and peace. The focus of my Department is to ensure that Government policy in these areas is progressed across the whole of Government. Through the system of Cabinet committees and senior official groups, key initiatives such as the Action Plan for Jobs and Pathways to Work have been given appropriate priority by my Department. Through these structures, my Department is monitoring progress on the implementation of the action plan for jobs and the first quarterly report was published on 20 April. My Department will also continue to work closely with other Departments to rebuild Ireland's position at EU level and internationally. This will be facilitated by the creation of an integrated EU division in the Department. Ministers and their Departments are, of course, specifically responsible to this House and to the public for policy matters covered within their areas.
The Government is committed to reform of the public service and of the way Government operates in order to become more transparent, accountable and efficient. In this regard, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, is overseeing a major programme of change, for example, in relation to freedom of information legislation, whistleblowers' legislation and regulation of lobbyists. There are also a significant number of commitments in the programme for Government assigned to my Department relating to constitutional and Oireachtas reform.
In addition to its general responsibilities to progress these commitments, my Department will also take specific actions to promote transparency. The Department already publishes details of foreign travel costs online and will soon be able to publish details of purchase orders worth over €20,000. It is also considering how best to publish other financial information online on a monthly basis.
The staffing needs of my Department are kept under ongoing review in order to ensure that it meets its strategic objectives. In addition to staff who transferred from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the enhanced EU division in my Department, further staff have been redeployed from other Departments and a number of specialist temporary staff have been recruited to work on preparations for the EU Presidency. A number of staff have been seconded to my Department from the National Economic and Social Council and Forfás to assist in policy implementation. My Department will continue to change, develop and strengthen its capacity and expertise in light of emerging challenges and priorities.
In the spirit of transparency to which the Taoiseach referred in his reply, have any retired civil servants returned to work in his Department? There has been considerable public commentary about this phenomenon of civil servants leaving on pension and returning, in some cases to the same Department. Common sense dictates at a time of high unemployment that when vacancies arise within the service those positions should be filled by some of the many thousands of skilled people who find themselves on the dole queues or in the airport departure lounges. I ask the Taoiseach to clarify whether any position in his Department is filled by a person who has returned after retirement. I ask for his view on this phenomenon in general.
The Taoiseach has said that jobs and growth are a key priority for his Department and this is welcome. How does he see his role and that of his Department in the delivery of any economic stimulus plan? What is the role of his Department in overseeing the delivery of action plans for job creation? His strategy statement makes clear the need to avoid what is termed group think and I presume this arises from the findings of the Nyberg report, the Regling Watson report and the Honohan report.
In recent weeks we have heard how repeated cautions by a Department of Finance official in 2005 of the impending economic crash, were persistently removed from public statements and from responses to priority questions. What steps has the Government taken to avoid a repetition of any such scenario?
To my knowledge, there is nobody in the Department of the Taoiseach who has been rehired following retirement. I will check this information for the Deputy to ensure its accuracy but I do not believe this to be the case. On the general policy of rehiring people following retirement, the Minister for State, Deputy Brian Hayes dealt with this issue last week in the matter of the rehiring of a number of specialists who returned on contract. For example, in the case of members of the teaching profession, their employer is the board of management of a school and the Department of Education and Skills acts as the paymaster general. The Government made a clear decision early this year that teachers who retired under the voluntary scheme at the end of February and who were teaching the junior certificate and leaving examination classes, could be rehired to continue with their classes until the end of the examination period because of the special bond between teachers of examination classes and their pupils. We did not wish to see disruption caused to those classes if the teachers were replaced by new personnel.
The Deputy will be aware of the issue of the employment of a number of hired veterinary surgeons to carry out inspections in meat factories. These are taken from a long list of veterinary practitioners, the vast majority of whom are in private practice. I do not wish to speak further as a Supreme Court case is pending and the Department closed the list some time ago. As a general principle it is my view that when people retire on pension or gratuity, the opportunities for work should be available to new people who will have that extra enthusiasm and energy for the work. I acknowledge there are cases where particular specialists may be required on a contract basis but as a general principle I believe that when people retire this means retirement rather than a return to work as described by the Deputy.
As for overseeing the delivery of an economic stimulus or action plan, the Office of the Taoiseach, through the Cabinet sub-committees, has the opportunity to call together the agencies and the Ministers and to organise the time line for required actions. I am not suggesting that this does not happen but in order to avoid an occasional drift it is very important to have a regular assessment of progress on the action plan. This is the reason for the special section in my Department which includes personnel from Forfás. Together with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, this section monitors and oversees the jobs action plan which was published in February. The plan contains 270 proposals specifically designed for the small and medium enterprises and small businesses sector. This section in my Department is constantly engaged with Secretaries General, Ministers and Ministers of State in regard to the quarterly schedule of issues and actions that need to be addressed, decided upon and implemented.
I believe the response was approximately 96% in the first quarterly report of that action programme. This may be the easy section and the next section may be more difficult because some of the issues are more complex. I have direct and regular contact with that section of my Department, which cuts across all those other Departments, and I see how those action plans are being implemented. The same applies in regard to the programme for Government as the section is in constant contact with the Ministers and their Secretaries General to ensure the Government plan is implemented in full over its period.
The Deputy asked how I can ensure there will not be a repeat of what happened in the past. I can report that the entire regime has changed and there is now a new emphasis on openness and transparency in the Department of the Taoiseach with a new Secretary General who has considerable experience and who wants to be very proactive in dealing with people. That is why these measures will be published online and ongoing financial transactions will be published monthly for the information of the public and everyone else. I hope that regular meetings between the senior officials of the Department of the Taoiseach and myself will ensure that the areas of responsibility of the Department and of the Government are followed through rigorously and actions which should be accomplished within a particular timescale are seen to happen, all in the interests of better services for everybody.
As I have four of the five first questions, the Ceann Comhairle might give me an opportunity to come back in again.
I will, yes.
I have raised the Taoiseach's role in tackling the jobs crisis, as outlined in his Department's strategy statement. I asked him to make a statement on the matter as well as outlining the policy areas for which his Department is responsible, and whether his Department is adequately staffed. The Taoiseach's colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, loves to choose his words carefully. Whether he is trying to rock the foundations of the State or just getting a laugh, he does not speak without thinking things through. It was therefore very revealing that he recently told a group of energy executives that the Government does not have a plan for the economy. This was reported in the Sunday Independent. He said the Government was essentially reacting on a day-by-day basis. Cutting through the spin, it seems there is a lot of hype about things but very little is actually happening.
The Department of the Taoiseach basically has the same staff as it had 18 months ago, but his office's role in formulating economic policy has been significantly reduced. His office hosts a lot of meetings, but he has removed most of the staff whose responsibility was to co-ordinate and deliver a jobs strategy. Would the Taoiseach agree that is one of the reasons the jobs strategy, which was launched last year, comprises over 90% of re-published existing strategies? There is nothing new or very fresh in that jobs strategy.
Given the admission by the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, that the Government does not have a strategic plan for the economy, should the Taoiseach not take genuine control of the situation and direct proper strategic economic planning within Government? His Ministers are clearly of the view that no such strategic plan exists.
I reject the report, that I have heard about, of comments attributed to and alleged to have been made by the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte. He was clear and categoric in his response to that, stating that no such thing was said by him. In the past, there were parallel departments of finance. There was a semblance of a department of finance in the Department of the Taoiseach, keeping a close eye on what was happening in the Department of Finance itself. For quite some time in the past, we had evidence of the scarcity of qualified people to drive economic policy in the country, but that has changed. The Government has a clear plan for dealing with our economic problems and woes, which is partly related to the programme for Government. It is also related to the fact that we are in a bailout programme and must get our deficit down to 3% of GDP by 2015. We must also consistently work with and renegotiate elements of the memorandum of understanding with the troika, and reduce our debt. In addition, we must grow our economy thus providing opportunities for business to grow, exports to expand and jobs to be created. Contrary to the Deputy's allegation, the Government has a clear plan which we are following through to develop our economy and provide those opportunities.
In so far as the formulation of economic policy is concerned, Deputy Martin is aware that I chair the Economic Management Council, which deals with issues of an economic nature that arise prior to their being presented to Government. At the council we have a direct input, assessment and discussion about each of these issues. In addition, as director of the Cabinet agenda, I follow through with my colleagues discussions on the formulation of economic policy and how that should be decided.
In appointing Ministers, the Taoiseach allocates responsibility and those responsibilities should be lived up to. There is no need for extensive duplication in Departments, with one doing the same as another. There are clear guidelines as well as a clear structure and strategy. If Ministers are having problems with a particular issue we discuss it, release the blockage and get on with it.
From the perspective of the Office of the Taoiseach, it is achievable to have fixed times for responses to various stages of whatever action might be being followed. In that sense, economic policy formulation is discussed with Ministers, organisations and groups across a broad spectrum prior to these policies being finalised. Deputy Martin says that nothing new has happened here, but when I launched the jobs action programme with the Minister, Deputy Bruton, I said that quite a number of good suggestions were made in the past, including when Deputy Martin was in government. However, they were never acted upon; they were left lying in reports which gathered dust on shelves in various Departments, having been paid for by the taxpayer. I make no apology for saying openly that a number of those proposals were there for years. I see no reason they should not be implemented now if they are good suggestions of a practical nature that will help business to flourish and increase job creation opportunities. When the jobs action plan was published, I said that these were not all new ideas from this Government. A number of them had been there for some time, but were never followed through. They will be followed through now. There is a specific section in the Department of the Taoiseach to see that this actually happens, with assistance from redeployed personnel from Forfás.
It means that when Ministers come before Cabinet sub-committees they are requested to report on progress in so far as how items, for which they have responsibility, on the jobs action plan are behaving. They know that the next quarterly publication will be made public, so it is in their own interests to make decisions within their Departments. It is not just a question of saying that they have done this, but also of outlining its impact and effectiveness. This must be seen by the wider business community as helping to achieve our ambition of demonstrating that, by 2016, we will be the best small country in which to do business.
I am glad the Taoiseach has clarified that the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, denies that he made the remarks attributed to him at the weekend. In the context of transparency, I also take it as an adamant denial of any suggestion that the Minister told the executives present that this was not to be spoken about afterwards, and that he did not want his remarks to be re-articulated or published subsequently.
I put it to the Taoiseach, however, that the jobs strategy is not working. At the time the growth target was set by the Government, everybody said it would not happen. The Government has belatedly acknowledged that its growth target will not work. As far back as the budget, the Government's own documentation was predicting an increase in unemployment this year. Therefore there is no evidence whatsoever that the jobs strategy is up to the game, given the scale of the problem.
There is no specific targeting of youth unemployment. We published a youth employment strategy last week with a view to getting a political consensus around the idea of focusing proactively on young people and the predicament they face in this crisis, which is the worst globally since the 1930s. We need to take extra measures and engage in out of the box thinking in order to help young people leaving schools and colleges to gain work or, at least, be put on the pathway to employment by gaining valuable experience through internships and thus securing jobs.
I do not accept the Taoiseach's political point about previous plans not being followed through. It is clear that the work we did with Enterprise Ireland and the IDA in recent years has borne fruit. For quite some time, the country's essential industrial strategy has worked for foreign direct investment. In addition, the reform and re-priorisitising of Enterprise Ireland's strategic objectives have worked to help Irish-owned companies grow and export. The development of a venture capital fund strategy happened quite a number of years ago through Enterprise Ireland, in the absence of the private sector. All of that has been effective but the current crisis has impacted most on the domestic economy, on the retail sector, in particular, and the hospitality sector, in terms of construction. I do not see a jobs strategy across all sectors in any response or sense of a series of measures being devised to assist those sectors earn some breathing space to come through this crisis. The Government stands indicted in terms of a lack of creative thinking-----
A question, please, Deputy.
-----to help employment creation in the domestic sector. I put it to the Taoiseach that he needs to go back to the drawing board in terms of a jobs strategy that is effective and that generates jobs.
In terms of health, will the Taoiseach tell the Minister for Health to stop massaging the figures in regard to waiting lists? He announced that 12 months was a new-----
These are questions to the Taoiseach.
This relates to the programme for Government.
No, that is an issue relating to the Minister for Health.
Question No. 4 asks about the implementation of the programme for Government. I do not think the Taoiseach has enough staff to follow what the Minister for Health is doing but he needs to make sure that some of his staff stop the Minister from deliberately massaging the figures and setting up false targets.
I would appreciate the Deputy's co-operation.
In this context, the target was always six months, not 12 months, and the Minister has claimed 84% of a reduction. That is a con job of the worst kind and it should be stopped at once.
That is a separate issue for the Minister for Health.
Deputy Martin said that the jobs strategy is not working. It would be wonderful to be able to report job creation figures like we had back in the 1990s when the then Minister, Deputy Bruton, was announcing 1,000 new jobs a week. Clearly, it is the kind of economic policy position to which we would like to return, where we were competitive, export driven and jobs were being created at significant levels.
It is true to say that the current strategy has realised 1,000 new foreign investment jobs a month over the past period and that employment has stabilised. While the unemployment numbers are much too high, we are creating more jobs than are now being lost, which is a sign of confidence in its own way. The figures for growth have been revised to 0.7% increase for this year, which is very much in excess of the eurozone and euro area in general, and it is projected to be 2% for next year. These figures have been referred to by other independent commentators.
I put it to the Deputy that there already 5,000 places on the Springboard scheme, announced by the Department of Education and Skills. Only yesterday the Minister, Deputy Quinn, announced a further 6,000 higher educations places for the unemployed. There are more than 5,000 places for young unemployed graduates on the JobBridge scheme, which is private sector driven and has been of enormous significance. When one speaks to employers who have taken on young graduates who are employed on that scheme, the majority of them are exceptionally pleased with the quality of the young personnel they get and many assume responsibilities permanently in those places. The Minister, Deputy Burton, is following through the Pathways to Work scheme, which affects the young and not so young.
From that point of view changes have had to be made here. The Deputy will be well aware that when his party was in government and small businesses approached banks, money was provided hand over fist as if there was never a requirement to pay anything but that is not the situation now. That is the reason the Government published the legislation in respect of partial loan credit guarantees in order that small and medium enterprises can have the flexibility, working with banks, to be able to draw and have access to credit, which we discussed last week, in the interests of employment and taking on new people. The same applies in the case of the micro-finance agency, a model of which is now to be worked on, which should provide up to €100 million for lending to small enterprises at commercial rates.
The Deputy mentioned issues such as the situation that applies here in general for business. There is no doubt that the retail sector is under pressure. If one travels to any town in the country, one can see evidence of that. There are reasons for it in terms of a lack of confidence and a loss of consumer confidence. That is the reason that for each of the last four months, despite the capacity to spend consumers are making other choices. It took some persistence to restore clarity and decisiveness about our corporation tax situation, about which there was some confusion and misinterpretation last year.
We have messed around in this country for a long time with our strategy to deal effectively with the broadband issue. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is now dealing with that and world class speeds can become available to business and a programme for the next young generation is being connected to schools.
The Deputy mentioned the hospitality sector. The decision to reduce VAT to 9% from 13% has resulted in 11,000 jobs in that sector. If the Deputy talks to those working in the sector, they will tell him that it has been a direct injection to their benefit. The same applied in the case of the reduction of PRSI for employers for the lower paid. The Government has set out its strategy for the next year in the hospitality sector for the Gathering. We hope to being in another 350,000 people to the country during the course of 2013 for those occasions, which will be of direct extra benefit to the hospitality sector.
These are challenging times, as the Deputy is aware. I do not accept that the jobs strategy is not working. It is now beginning to have effect. In dealing with 400,000 people on the live register - 130,000 of whom work three-day weeks and part-time and others who sign on while they are retired until they reach pension age - clearly, those who require significant motivation are those who are in a rut, who do not see any hope or do not have the confidence to project themselves in a way that possibly they can. The Pathways to Work, Springboard and JobBridge schemes and other areas, plus decisions to put responsibility down to local authority level for enterprise boards and enterprise operations will have a significant impact in the months ahead. For its part, the Government's priority will be to focus on that jobs and business area, clear those blockages and open those doors in order that business will have a genuine environment in which to thrive.
Economic Management Council
Ceisteanna (28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)
Joe Higgins
Ceist:6Deputy Joe Higgins asked the Taoiseach the number of occasions that the Economic Management Council has met since the Christmas recess. [12200/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraGerry Adams
Ceist:7Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach the number of times the Economic Management Council has met since the Easter recess. [21609/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraGerry Adams
Ceist:8Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if the Economic Management Council has met with the Irish banks since the Easter recess. [21610/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraGerry Adams
Ceist:9Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if the Economic Management Council has any plans to meet with the Irish banks. [21611/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:10Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on any recent changes to the supports in place within his Department for the Economic Management Council. [23875/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:11Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has reviewed the membership of the Economic Management Council. [23876/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraMicheál Martin
Ceist:12Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the number of meetings of the Economic Management Council. [23878/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (123 píosaí cainte)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 12, inclusive, together.
The Economic Management Council has met 55 times since its establishment. The members met 18 times so far this year, most recently on 16 May and five times since the Easter recess. The Government intends to work closely with the Irish banks to ensure that the banking sector supports economic recovery. The members of the council last met with the banks on 21 February. As part of this ongoing process, I expect that members of the Economic Management Council will meet with the banks again in the not too distant future.
The membership of the Economic Management Council consists of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The support for the Economic Management Council is a core function of my Department and is undertaken in addition to other responsibilities of the staff involved, with assistance from other Departments, as may be appropriate.
I read in a briefing note that the function of the Economic Management Council is to manage the Government's programme in respect of economic planning and budgetary matters, economic recovery programmes, including the representation of Ireland in negotiations with the European Union, the IMF and the European Central Bank, and that additional support for the council is provided from within the existing resources of the Taoiseach's Department, working in close conjunction with staff from the Departments of Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and Foreign Affairs and Trade. In view of that mandate for the Economic Management Council and of the fact that it has met 18 times this year, is it not incredible that the Irish people are not getting a single assessment from the Taoiseach of the economic impact of the fiscal rules straitjacket he agreed in Brussels at the summit of European leaders in December? In the course of the hundreds of hours of media debate and discussion, and the Taoiseach's side allegedly putting out information, we have had no idea of the fiscal impact of the new fiscal rules the Taoiseach proposes to enshrine in Irish law and to agree by treaty. Will the Taoiseach explain why this is the case? Is it not really shameful that instead of an honest attempt to lay out the implications of the permanent austerity rules the Taoiseach seeks to frighten our people? Will he correct this urgently so in the coming week the Irish people can have as objective information as possible, based on the projections of the Department of Finance and others, on how the new fiscal rules would impact on the economy from 2015?
I do not accept Deputy Higgins's assertion. He knows very well what the fiscal impact will be because the treaty states it quite clearly. A "Yes" vote guarantees access to the ESM. A "No" vote guarantees no access to the ESM. Deputy Higgins does not have to take my word for it; I am quite sure he respects Mr. Justice Feeney and the other members of the independent Referendum Commission who are absolutely impartial, apolitical and utterly focused on telling the people the reality and the truth about what will be the fiscal impact here. Deputy Higgins does not have to accept my word for it. I am quite sure he will not deny accuracy and truth to the chairman of the independent Referendum Commission. The commission has made it perfectly clear a "Yes" vote would guarantee access to the ESM if it were ever required.
It is equally clear that much of what is in the fiscal stability treaty has already been enshrined in European Union legislation be it through the six pack measures or the Stability and Growth Pact. The difference will be that everybody will have to adhere to these conditions, big countries as well as small countries. The Deputy will appreciate that in the past big countries broke the Stability and Growth Pact and did not suffer any consequences. The new situation will bring good housekeeping to the fore which will ensure no future Irish Government or collection of parties will ever again be able to run away with the people's money.
Several weeks ago Deputy Higgins and those who support his call for a "No" vote called for the vetoing of the ESM and Sinn Féin was stating the IMF and the EU should take their money, get out of here and leave us alone. Now they state that of course on the day we will have access to all of these funds but with no indication of what the fiscal impact might be. In other words, when Deputy Higgins states the treaty leaves us with an austerity programme, I would like to know what is his view of the interest rate one would pay if one was to follow his proposal.
His question is about the fiscal impact. The fiscal impact is that the country will have access to the ESM if ever it requires it. More important are the jobs I discussed earlier with Deputy Martin from the multinational investors which are very clear, decisive, deliberate and large. Each of them reduces the deficit by €20,000. These matters speak for themselves. They have confidence in our people and country because of our tax record, technology and talent pool. We want this to continue. We might not win all of the jobs, but a "Yes" vote guarantees significant interest in investing in our country will continue. A "Yes" vote guarantees access to the insurance of the permanent fund for all European countries were it ever to be required. It also allows us to apply good housekeeping rules here. Deputy Higgins is well aware the less interest one pays and the less in debt one is, the more one has to spend on important facilities such as schools, primary care centres and front line services because the money is not required to be paid on high interest rates because of decisions taken in the past. This is the situation.
There the Taoiseach is, leading us on another wild goose chase employing diversionary tactics to answer the nub of the question I put to him. Perhaps I will have better success the second time. The Taoiseach is absolutely wrong that a country which does not sign the austerity pact will not have access to the ESM.
It is not an austerity pact.
Is the Referendum Commission wrong?
Read the treaty.
If the Irish people vote "No", it is a mandate to the Taoiseach to ensure he removes any doubt there might be. I can go into the details of the ESM treaty itself.
I would prefer if you did not.
Please do not.
I can go into other matters with the Taoiseach.
The Deputy's question is on the number of times the Economic Management Council has met since Christmas.
The Taoiseach will not find any magic bullet in what he is looking at there. The nub of the question is that the 0.5% structural deficit is new.
We are not having a debate on the stability pact. We are asking questions to the Taoiseach.
Yes, but the fiscal targets and the automatic debt reduction are new.
That is not your question. You asked a question about the Economic Management Council.
I asked the Taoiseach why the economic council has not laid in front of the Irish people what would be the impact in 2015 and beyond of the implementation of these new facets, namely, the €5 billion to €6 billion in cuts or tax increases or a combination the structural deficit will involve and the €4 billion to €5 billion of the automatic debt reduction.
Does the Taoiseach not accept it is utterly fraudulent for him and the Labour Party, with all their posters promising us stability in the same way they promised us jobs in the second Lisbon treaty campaign-----
What is certain is that there will be no stability if we follow Deputy Higgins's course.
Does the Taoiseach agree he has no control over those who will decide whether there is stability, namely, the financial markets? The Taoiseach signing a bit of paper committing our people to further austerity will not satisfy their thirst for more and more of the lifeblood of the resources of people in the form of profits if they fear their funds are at risk. The Taoiseach is making a fraudulent claim when he promises stability.
Deputy Higgins will give us the ball and chain.
I am disappointed in Deputy Higgins. He has been here for quite a considerable time and he also has some experience of Europe. He went out there for a little rest before he came back to proclaim his new method of driving our country.
It is not new. In fairness, Deputy Higgins has been very consistent.
I am disappointed he should decide that Mr. Justice Feeney, the chairman of the independent Referendum Commission, is not in a position to be accurate with his facts.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
This is very disappointing because the people of the country, if they do nothing else, have absolute respect for the impartiality, independence, accuracy and truth of the statements made by Mr. Justice Feeney as chairman of the independent Referendum Commission. Deputy Higgins should withdraw his assertion that the commission is not being accurate or truthful in its comments.
Hear, hear.
No, he is right that you signed it.
If he reads the stability treaty, and I know from the past that he is a good reader, he will see it states on page 9:
STRESSING the importance of the Treaty establishing the European Stability Mechanism as an element of a global strategy to strengthen the Economic and Monetary Union and POINTING OUT that the granting of assistance in the framework of new programmes under the European Stability Mechanism will be conditional, as of 1 March 2013, on the ratification of this Treaty by the Contracting Party concerned and, as soon as the transposition period mentioned in Article 3(2) has expired, on compliance with the requirements of this Article,...
It is perfectly clear, as the chairman of the independent referendum commission has pointed out, that only those countries that ratify this fiscal stability treaty will have access to the ESM. It is difficult to predict accurately what the scale and nature of each individual country's plan will be to get down to 60% and 0.5% starting after 2019 because the growth figures that will be driven from this country will have a dramatic impact on the scale of that. We had this previously. I regard it as reprehensible for Deputy Higgins to stand up in this House as an elected representative and condemn the chairman of the independent Referendum Commission and accuse him of being inaccurate in his statements to the public.
Hear, hear. Deputy Higgins should apologise.
May I just make one point, please?
I call Deputy McDonald. Deputy Higgins had one question on this matter.
May I just finish the point, a Cheann Comhairle?
Deputy McDonald, on behalf of Sinn Féin, has three questions, as does Deputy Martin.
The judge said that the Taoiseach signed off on it.
I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
He did not go on to say that the Government could change that-----
I call Deputy McDonald.
I am struck-----
This is not about the stability pact. The questions tabled to the Taoiseach deal with the Economic Management Council.
I am struck by the Taoiseach's faux indignation and his concern that Deputy Higgins is condemning the independent chairperson.
We will not have that either.
That is just nonsense.
Sinn Féin does faux indignation very well.
In an effort to be helpful, may I make the following suggestion to our colleagues on the Government benches and to the Taoiseach in particular? He is obviously very concerned to debate the matters contained within the austerity treaty.
It is not austerity - there is no austerity there.
Can I suggest to him-----
Perhaps the Deputy should table parliamentary questions on it.
-----that rather than detaining this session with a discussion on it-----
It would be helpful if the Deputy tabled parliamentary questions on this particular issue.
-----he should make himself available outside this House for a debate with Deputy Adams, the leader of the "No" campaign. That would be useful.
I ask the Deputy to ask her supplementary question. Time is running out and Deputy Martin has three questions.
I have made my point.
I thought you were the leader, Mary Lou.
He is one leader of the "No" campaign.
I have made my suggestion to the Taoiseach.
The Taoiseach is running away from debate on this matter.
If he is so utterly horrified by what the Deputy had to say, he should take the discussion outside this House.
Maybe the Deputy was also horrified.
During his meeting with the banks on 21 February, did the Taoiseach raise the issue of mortgage distress and how did they respond? Did he discuss the personal insolvency Bill and did they express a view on it - supportive or otherwise? Was the proposal to move loss-making tracker mortgages from Permanent TSB and other banks into the IBRC, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, discussed by the banks and the Economic Management Council? Were the 2,500 redundancies at Allied Irish Banks discussed with the banks? I understand the IBOA is involved in talks with AIB management today, but I would like to know whether the matter was discussed. What did the Taoiseach have to say and what did representatives of the banks have to say? Was he in any way shocked by or condemnatory of anything members of the banking fraternity may have said to him in the course of his meetings?
Before the Taoiseach replies I wish to put the following on the record. From time to time I have to disallow questions about was discussed at Cabinet sub-committees - it is not in order to ask these questions. As I understand the Economic Management Council is a Cabinet sub-committee, I ask Deputies to be careful about their supplementary questions.
Arising from what Deputy Higgins said, Mr. Justice Feeney's remarks were "one of the sources of funding which Ireland which Ireland is currently availing of will not be available" in the event of a "No" vote.
That was not my question.
I know it was not the Deputy's question.
The Taoiseach should have the debate outside.
I remind her of something she said when she mentioned her leader. She has been very categorical in her accurate misquoting of what the treaty states. Specifically she misquotes Article 12, which states that-----
I did not misquote anything.
-----"the ESM may provide stability support... subject to strict conditionality". There is a big difference between "may" and "will".
That is for the purpose of stability in the eurozone.
Her party leader was very clear in his vocal-----
The Taoiseach should have the debate outside the House.
Sorry, Deputy.
-----assertions that the EU and IMF should get lost and take their money away from here.
And the Taoiseach wants them to stay for a second bailout.
Sinn Féin had also stated that the Government should veto the ESM and now it states that we will avail of the ESM - of course it will be all right on the night and we will get it at low interest rates. Sinn Féin has no idea of the scale of what is involved in that.
No, but the Taoiseach does.
The Taoiseach should read Article 3 then.
I had the privilege to sign this treaty on 2 March. The chairman of the independent Referendum Commission has made it perfectly clear for Deputy Adams and all of his party. All Sinn Féin wants to do is cause as much protest as it can around the country. I meet many of its members in various locations. I have seen some of them on a regular basis and have got to know them very well, and am always guaranteed a noisy and warm reception. I have no problem with peaceful protest which is perfectly legitimate.
The Deputy should come out with him.
The Deputy might tell some of those with whom she might be associated or her leader to-----
Not wear balaclavas.
-----refrain from being over-enthusiastic or over-exuberant. In respect of what the Ceann Comhairle has said, far be it from me to-----
(Interruptions).
Deputies, please.
We were much more organised, Micheál.
You were more secretive.
The Economic Management Council has had a number of meetings with the bank. Any meeting with the bank did not actually constitute, in itself, a Cabinet sub-committee. So I can say to the House and to you, a Cheann Comhairle, that the Government had a series of detailed questions for the banks, which we met collectively and individually. We asked about how the banks are ensuring SME credit targets will be met; practical initiatives to ensure and assist SMEs access credit, which is a big issue and was discussed last week; and willingness to implement and support the Government's action plan for jobs for small business - we got reassurance on a number of those issues. We also asked about mortgage credit; how banks are ensuring that credit is available to support the Government's budget initiative; the checks and balances being put in to ensure that the conditions on mortgage credit are fair and balanced, and not unduly restrictive; whether banks are monitoring outcomes between different regions; the situation that applies in the case of mortgage arrears; and the strategy for each of the banks. We discussed examples of how banks are assisting those in difficulties. We asked about progress in respect of the Keane report; when their teams will be in place to sit down with individuals who are in mortgage distress, negative equity and very concerned about their positions; and when they expect to provide their reports to Mr. Elderfield for consideration of the sectors and the categories involved here.
These are all issues that were discussed with the banks. I assure the Deputy that there was a comprehensive discussion of the financial situation of many people, access to credit, mortgage distress and mortgage arrears. While I am no favourite of the banks, I must say that their plans - if they follow through on them - were very constructive in a number of areas and I would like to see them happen. We need a banking system that has the trust of people and works in the interest of business. From travelling around the country - sometimes meeting some of the Deputy's colleagues - I find that the younger generation working in the banks work exceptionally hard and take the brunt of the stick which was not due to them in the first place because of decisions made higher up. I will be happy to report to the House on a regular basis on the progress being made here.
To clarify, that was one of a number of regular meetings with the banks which, of itself, did not constitute a Cabinet sub-committee. The EMC is such a committee.
Was personal insolvency discussed?
Yes, we outlined the progress made on personal insolvency although obviously we were not in a position to outline all the detail. Banks are clearly well aware of what the Government's intention is here.
When the Economic Management Council was established, the Taoiseach said it would ensure that projections for growth and other matters were fully accurate. He also talked about how items would be reviewed intensively. The Taoiseach placed great store on it. Since then, he has done everything but admit that the growth projections from December were wrong, almost from the moment they were published. This goes to the heart of the credibility of the Economic Management Council. The IMF and the EU downgraded the growth forecasts very early but it took the Government a long time to follow suit.
The Government is now predicting lower growth rates, lower GDP, lower job creation, higher unemployment, lower real wage growth and higher public debt than it was predicting 12 months ago. Some of the variations over the 12 months are significant. The average projected growth of GDP from 2012 to 2015 was 2.9%, but that has been revised down to 2.2%. Projected growth of GNP has been revised down from 2.4% to 1.4%. Average annual investment growth has been revised down from 4% to 1.8% over that period. Nominal GDP has been revised down from €182.7 billion to €178 billion. Net job creation from 2011 to 2015 was projected last year to be 101,000; this April the Government is projecting that it will be 61,000 over that same period. That is a decline of 40,000 jobs in the forecast.
It is more than were created under the last Government.
In April last year the Government was predicting an unemployment rate of 10% in 2015; now it is predicting a rate of 11.7%. That is an increase of 1.7%. The Government is also predicting a reduction in real wage growth of -1.7%.
I hope that is not Bertie texting the Deputy.
On the debt to GDP ratio in 2015, a very serious measure, the Government was predicting last year that it would be 111%; now it is predicting it to be 117%. That is a very significant variation in one year.
There were many variations in the last ten years.
We were told that the Economic Management Council was established to provide accuracy in how things were measured in order to inform policy. How is the EMC managing this area? Is its failure with growth projections due to political decisions or, perhaps, to the lack of adequate technical support? I would appreciate if the Taoiseach would address this.
I am running out of time so can I ask my second question now, a Cheann Comhairle, while I am in full flight?
Yes.
With regard to the membership of the EMC, there was a public dispute recently between the Government parties about who sits on the EMC and what its role is. Labour Party Ministers told journalists that the briefing which the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, made against the Tánaiste some time ago was motivated by jealousy over not attending the EMC. Did the Taoiseach speak to those involved at that time? Ministers regularly complain to journalists that the Cabinet is marginalised on economic issues because of the Economic Management Council. They say that what it does, in essence, is take economic items off the Cabinet agenda without really adding anything extra. Has the Taoiseach examined the membership of the EMC and its relationship with the Cabinet's deliberations on broader economic issues?
I believe the EMC was a minor initiative which was over spun, like many others at the time the Government was formed. It is a small Cabinet committee with little support and, already, a poor record after 12 months in existence in terms of growth projections and so forth. We discussed mortgage arrears earlier. There has been no sense that the EMC has had any effectual impact on the mortgage arrears crisis. We dealt with that earlier in Leaders' Questions. Will the Taoiseach discuss the growth projections and will he comment on the EMC?
I reject all the assertions made by the Deputy.
The Taoiseach cannot do that. They are his projections.
The EMC met 55 times. It has a real work programme. The membership comprises myself, the Tánaiste, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The council is served by civil and public servants, as is appropriate. I have no interest in allegations or assertions as to who said what in anonymous reports in newspapers. The Ministers attend Cabinet sub-committees as required. As I said to Deputy McDonald, the value of this from my perspective is that once a strategy or pathway is laid out for whatever action or economic matter is being considered, there is a time line included and Ministers and Departments are expected to respond, which they do. The public service responds very well to clarity of requirement or decision and the time in which it must be done.
The growth projections?
Obviously, growth figures are revised on a regular basis. They are not subject to a single individual criterion or condition. External demand is always an issue and it depends on whether other economies are able to purchase exports from this country. Yes, the figure has been revised down to 0.7% for this year and to 2% for next year, which is significantly ahead of both the eurozone and the European Union. The OECD forecasts were published this morning. They project growth of 0.6% for 2012 and a deficit of 8.4%-----
That is less than the Government's revised projection.
They project growth of 2.1% in 2013 and a deficit of 7.5%. The OECD's assessment of the Irish economy is that the recovery under way will gain further momentum, which is to be welcomed.
What about the employment projections?
The OECD is projecting that Ireland's GDP will increase by 0.6% this year, which brings the OECD more into line with the prevailing consensus from the Department of Finance of 0.7% and the EU Commission's projection of 0.5%. IBEC gives a projection of 1%. These are all independent projections.
The Government was projecting 1.7% up to a month ago.
The Irish economy returned to growth in 2011 and I welcome the OECD assessment that the economy will continue to improve and grow for a second consecutive year in 2012. Despite the challenging times, these are very worthy of comment. Next year, the OECD expects a strengthening of activity and is forecasting GDP growth of 2.1%.
Has the Taoiseach any comment on the net job creation figure?
The Deputy is not listening to the answer.
These are the OECD figures for this morning.
I did not ask about the OECD figures. I am asking about the Government's projections.
The Deputy asked about growth projections and I am telling him what they are. I have given the Deputy the growth projections of IBEC, the Commission, the Department of Finance and the OECD.
The Government has reduced by 40,000 the net increase in the number of jobs.
They are all on the plus side-----
They are not.
-----with clear forecasts of projected increases for next year again, in terms of growth in the economy.
The Government is predicting 40,000 fewer jobs than it was predicting five months ago.
What about the number of jobs lost between 2008 and 2011?
Can we have a bit of quiet please?
With regard to jobs, we have a rate of 1,000 job announcements per month from foreign direct investment in this country. The Deputy was very quick out of the blocks with Eli LIlly and Apple when they made their announcements about jobs in Cork.
I have worked with Apple for a long time.
He never questioned their job creation figures in his constituency.
These are the Taoiseach's figures.
Why would he? Of course, they are welcome. I had to drag out of Deputy Adams an acknowledgement of the 1,000 jobs in Dundalk created by PayPal. I would like if these figures were higher and that is the priority of the Government. It is focused both on our indigenous economy of small and medium enterprises and business and on continuing the strong line of investment into this country.
Written Answers follow Adjournment.