Budget 2013

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 26 September 2012

Wednesday, 26 September 2012

Ceisteanna (3)

Catherine Murphy

Ceist:

3. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the input she has had in the preparation of the annual budget specifically in relation to proposed cutbacks in State funded services to children and young persons; the extent of consultation other Departments seek from her Department in the preparation of the budget; if she will provide a full list of State funded services to children and young persons which either partly or wholly come under the auspices of her Department including the total annual spend last year and to date in 2012 in respect of each; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40656/12]

Freagraí ó Béal (5 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

As the Deputy will be aware, the Government is engaged in consideration of budget 2013 and it would be inappropriate for me to comment in detail on budgetary discussions. My Department works in close partnership with other Departments on a range of cross-cutting issues in regard to both policy and provision as they relate to children and young people. I also point to the fact that my Department is in the process of developing a new children and young people's policy framework and that it is intended this overarching policy document will provide a seamless, whole-of-childhood approach to policy-making, including budgetary decision-making, for children and young people across the whole of government in the period 2013-18.

As regards the published 2012 Estimates for my Department, the Deputy might note that the full gross allocation for 2012 stands at just under €427 million, of which €418 million relates to current funding and the remainder to capital funding. Given the number of key priorities facing my Department which include establishing the new Child and Family Support Agency, holding a constitutional referendum on children's rights and the continued provision of the free preschool year in early childhood care and education, the resource allocation represents a 2% increase in funding when compared to the Estimates outturn of €419 million for 2011.

That shows the priority attached to the delivery of the programmes which come under my own Department. I was very pleased to obtain capital funding of €6 million towards child care this year. The Deputy will also be aware of the money that has been agreed and given by the Government so that we can take children out of St. Patrick's Institution. The capital fund for that is quite substantial.

With regard to my own direct remit, the Deputy will be aware of the child and family support programme, which includes funding for the Family Support Agency, the National Education Welfare Board, the school completion programme and child detention centres. With regard to early childhood, we have the free preschool year, and we also support a range of programmes including the national longitudinal study of children in Ireland, the national children's strategy, the lottery funding scheme, provision for the Ombudsman for Children, the Adoption Authority of Ireland and the constitutional referendum on children's rights, which will take place next month. That summarises the range of resources in my Department.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I thank the Minister for her reply. I am trying to work out the wider departmental position and do not want to engage in a debate about the budget itself. Every time I wish to pose a question I must ask myself whether it should be directed to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, the Minister for Health, the Minister for Education and Skills or some other Minister. Children are represented in almost every single Department.

In terms of children's issues, we are seeing things pushed to the limit and we have measurement by failure. Recently I have been made aware of a transport problem at St. Raphael's special school, the removal of the dental service for primary school children in my constituency and the fact that developmental clinics for babies are being seriously cut back, to give but a few examples. During last week's debate about the Department of Health, the filling of vacant positions in areas such as speech and language therapy and occupational therapy was raised. There may well be two priorities in that Department but children are the big losers due to the lack of such services.

I am trying to understand whether the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs sits at the Cabinet table as an advocate. Does she analyse what each Department is doing from the point of view of children? Does she examine the failures that occur, such as the curtailing of developmental clinics for babies, which is pretty serious? What approach does the Minister take where she sees such failures, and is there a proactive approach on the delivery side?

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

I thank the Deputy, who makes a reasonable point with regard to the cross-departmental nature of many of the services that affect children. Another way of looking at that is to ask how we should organise our services so that we get the best delivery for children. If the Deputy has not read the task force report on child and family services and how they should operate under the new agency, I would recommend that she do so. The report argues that the way we organise our services is not as friendly to children and families as it needs to be. It recommends that we try to deliver services to customers in a customer-friendly way so that they can readily access the services they need. There is an issue with regard to the structural organisation of some of our services.

In response to the point raised by the Deputy, there is clearly a whole-of-government responsibility to children. As Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, I have very specific responsibilities in the areas I outlined earlier, but some issues are cross-departmental. The issue of developmental clinics referred to by the Deputy, for example, is something about which I would be very concerned. As a member of the Government, I share in the collective responsibility when it comes to making decisions on budgetary matters and matters that affect children. I am engaged in detailed discussions with other Cabinet colleagues, through Cabinet sub-committees and through quite a number of interdepartmental working groups on an ongoing basis to ensure better delivery of services. I am also engaged in regular bilateral meetings, such as those currently taking place with the Department of Social Protection on child care services.

There are two answers to the Deputy's question. One relates to how we actually deliver the services at present, what Departments they are organised under and how seamless the services should be. The second relates to the fact that there is a whole-of-government responsibility in terms of child-proofing policies and decisions. The concept of equality-proofing was accepted some time ago but that still has a long way to go. The Government must be sensitive to the cumulative impact of decisions on children and families. I have a particular responsibility to interact with other Ministers in that context.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I agree with the Minister's point about how services are delivered, but I ask that when talking about children we refer to them as citizens rather than customers. It is more reflective of the fact that children have an entitlement to services. Will the Child and Family Support Agency be responsible to the Minister in the same way that the HSE is responsible to the Minister for Health? It will be very difficult to maintain proper scrutiny if the agency is at arms length or outsourced, so to speak. As members of the Opposition we are supposed to hold the Government to account but, in the case of the HSE, for example, it is really difficult for us to figure out how services are run. It can take ages to receive replies to questions and so forth. How does the Minister anticipate the agency will work? That will be critical if we are to move towards a different model of service delivery.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

The new agency must be established by legislation, which will be before the House. The governance of the new agency will form part of that legislation when it is presented for debate before December. The Government has yet to take some decisions regarding the new agency. In response to the question of accountability that the Deputy raises, it will be far easier to achieve accountability with an agency that is dedicated to this area with a sole focus, as opposed to being part of a large organisation such as the HSE. In the latter organisation, managers have multiple jobs and multiple focuses. As I said in an earlier reply, we have reduced the number of managers from 34 to 16 and there is much clearer accountability. It is much closer from the front line to management. Gordon Jeyes has made the point repeatedly that accountability is essential. There will be clearer political and front-line accountability because we will not have several layers of management in the new agency. The governance structure will form part of the legislation that I will bring before the House in the coming weeks.