Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 13 November 2012
3. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach the number of times since the Dáil recess that the International Financial Services Centre Clearing House Group has met; the issues that were discussed; the actions that have been taken as a result; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44100/12]
Amharc ar fhreagra4. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the number of times officials from his Department attended Clearing House Group meetings in relation to the International Financial Services Centre; the main issues being discussed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44239/12]
Amharc ar fhreagra5. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the progress made to date in his Department in relation to the strategy to create 10,000 jobs in the International Financial Services Centre sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44240/12]
Amharc ar fhreagra6. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach the number of times the Financial Services Clearing House Group has met and the issues they discussed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48419/12]
Amharc ar fhreagra7. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has met representatives of the International Financial Services Centre recently; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49613/12]
Amharc ar fhreagra8. Deputy Joe Higgins asked the Taoiseach the number of times officials from his Department have attended Clearing House Group meetings; and the issues that were discussed. [49712/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 8, inclusive, together.
The IFSC Clearing House Group has met once since the Dáil summer recess on 25 September and is due to meet next on 22 November. Its associated working groups meet regularly, typically on a monthly or bimonthly basis.
My Department has supported the international financial services industry in Ireland since the establishment of the IFSC in 1987 by providing a forum for the exchange of views and the co-ordination of efforts through the mechanism of the IFSC Clearing House Group and its related working groups. During this period the IFSC has grown to employ 33,000 people and contribute over €1 billion annually through corporation tax and payroll taxes.
I have met representatives of the international financial services sector, as I do representatives of all sectors, on a number of occasions at various events since the launch of the IFSC strategy in 2011. For example, I addressed the Irish Funds Industry Association at its annual conference this year and spoke at the Financial Services Ireland annual dinner in 2011. My Department is represented at all meetings of the Clearing House Group which has since its establishment been chaired by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach.
Membership of the Clearing House Group comprises public and private sector representatives and reflects a wide range of experience and expertise in order that its objectives of identifying opportunities to develop sustainable business and employment in the various sectors of the international financial services industry can be achieved. The primary focus of the group is to identify and consider issues of importance to the long-term development of the international financial services industry in Ireland in line with the programme for Government which states the Government “supports the future development of the IFSC as a source of future employment growth, subject to appropriate regulation” and commits to the development of the financial services sector to maximise employment opportunities. In 2011 the group contributed to the development of a "Strategy for the International Financial Services Industry in Ireland 2011-2016", framed on the basis of an objective to create more than 10,000 net new jobs, protect existing employment and business and consolidate the sector as a key driver of the economy in the next five years. The group monitors progress on implementation of the strategy. Since its launch, both the public and private sectors have been actively involved in executing the strategy across a broad front and considerable progress has been achieved, including significant progress on initiatives such as green finance and Islamic finance; notable investment wins by IDA Ireland, including Northern Trust, MasterCard, PayPal, HedgeServ, ICBC Leasing and CIMB Principal Islamic; a technology centre in financial services has been launched with initial research projects approved; and among a range of related initiatives, Enterprise Ireland is promoting the Payments Ireland initiative to brand Ireland as a centre of competence for payments companies.
In addition to a series of initiatives to ensure the availability of an appropriately skilled workforce for the financial services sector in Ireland such as Finuas, Financial Services Ireland has recently launched the FSI CareerStart programme. This one year training programme offers participants the opportunity to gain new skills in the area of international financial services, while providing an in-depth knowledge of the industry. The programme is funded by Springboard, an initiative funded through the Department of Education and Skills to provide education and training opportunities to support unemployed persons. Other issues considered by the Clearing House Group in the past year include the marketing and promotion of Ireland's strengths in the international financial services industry and how best to enhance and support the competitive position of the international financial services sector in Ireland.
Since the inception of the IFSC, close co-operation between industry and the public sector has been a foundation of its success. It is entirely appropriate that the public sector works with companies that employ tens of thousands of people, with a view to protecting and creating jobs and maintaining Ireland’s competitive position as a leading centre for international financial services.
In line with the Government’s focus on increasing the transparency and openness of government, a number of measures are being taken with regard to the IFSC Clearing House Group to ensure transparency and accountability in its work. First, the minutes of meetings of the group which have taken place since my election as Taoiseach to the end of September this year will shortly be published on my Department's website and www.merrionstreet.ie. Second, a report on the work of the group during this period will also be published on the websites. Third, I have asked the Secretary General of my Department who is chairman of the group to write to the Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service offering to brief it on the work of the group. These initiatives will ensure increased awareness of the continued importance of the international financial services sector to the economy and highlight the progress being made by the private and public sectors working together in creating and protecting jobs for Ireland, a priority which is shared by all parties in the House.
When the issue was raised in the Dáil last March, the Taoiseach told us he was unaware whether the IFSC Clearing House Group had discussed the issue of a financial transaction tax. Then, in information revealed to The Irish Times by way of a freedom of information request, it became clear that the group and its sub-groups had discussed the issue of a financial transaction tax at 13 meetings between October 2011 and May 2012. Interestingly, the public positions of Ministers dovetailed exactly with the consensus in the financial sector. The Clearing House Group is a Who's Who of the banking and finance sectors and was actually successful in having changes made to the Finance Bill to allow a 30% tax exemption on incomes of between €75,000 and €500,000. Further tax reliefs on school fees of up to €5,000 were included at its behest, despite opposition from Revenue. What I am trying to get at is the relationship between the Government and an elite group such as this. Those citizens in mortgage distress - 160,000 households - do not have a clearing house group and do not have access to the Government at this very top level. Is it not time to review the Government's relationship with the IFSC Clearing House Group?
The Taoiseach said there was a commitment to creating 10,000 new jobs. It would be interesting to find how many of these jobs have been created since the launch of the strategy way back in July last year. We have since had AIB announcing the loss of 2,500 jobs. There have been 1,000 job losses in Bank of Ireland, in addition to 3,700 who have left since 2009. In Ulster Bank there were almost 1,000 job losses in January 2012. In Permanent TSB there were 250 losses in July, while National Irish Bank closed 20 branches, resulting in 100 job losses, in June. It does not give me any satisfaction to recite that litany of bad news items, but I am trying to get between the propaganda and the reality in terms of jobs growth in this sector. I am hugely concerned that the Government, in whatever sector we are dealing with, has a different relationship with the elites - in this case, the financial sector. Compare the Government's relationship with the Clearing House Group and the bankers' attitude to Oireachtas committees. Last week the Taoiseach said the way they were treating Oireachtas committee representatives was totally unacceptable and that the huge bonuses they were receiving were totally unacceptable-----
We are straying a little from the question.
Is it not time to review the Government's relationship with the IFSC Clearing House Group? A cosy relationship is not good and it appears that this group has access well and above the level of other equally important sectors.
First, it is important to set out what the Clearing House Group actually does. It is not a case of cosy relationships. It is a forum chaired by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach which draws together representatives of the private and public sectors to look at issues of importance to the country. When the question of a financial transaction tax was first raised, a range of different views were expressed. The matter was discussed extensively in the media and raised in other quarters, including this House.
If I am correct, the spokesperson on finance for the Fianna Fáil Party spoke in the House in October last year and raised the prospect of difficulties being created in terms of job creation and job retention if a financial transaction tax was not considered properly. The Departments and the Clearing House Group did consider the issue. The Departments discussed the matter with various elements of industry and those involved in the financial services area. Independent research was carried out by the ESRI and the Central Bank. It is quite in order that the Government should consider such matters carefully before it would agree to a change. The decision announced by the Minister for Finance on behalf of the Government was that we would not be supportive of a financial transaction tax unless it applied universally. The reason is that one does not want to place Dublin and the IFSC at a disadvantage in comparison to London where such a tax might not apply.
Deputy Gerry Adams is aware that stamp duty is applied in this country. As part of the process of the European Union, he is also aware that enhanced co-operation applies where a majority of countries wish to pursue a particular course of action. Eleven countries wish to introduce a financial transaction tax. As the incoming holder of the Presidency, I have made it perfectly clear to colleagues in Europe that we do not support a financial transaction tax for the reasons set out, but that will not prevent us from processing the enhanced co-operation element under the rules that apply and the eleven countries that wish to introduce such a tax can go ahead and do so. It is not a case of the Clearing House Group making policy decisions; it is only a forum for interaction on the development of information and the analysis of views between private and public in the interests of the financial services area and the retention of jobs and the promotion of job creation. As always, policy is a matter for Ministers to develop and Governments to accept and disseminate. I hope that clears up the issue for the Deputy. The Clearing House Group is chaired by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach and there is no question of cosy relationships being adopted. I have met representatives of the industry on a number of occasions. It is perfectly in order for them to say the regulatory position, in so far as regulator X or Y is concerned, is too restrictive and needs to be adapted or modified in order that decisions can be made about business that will make it easier to retain and create jobs. As the Deputy is aware, the number of jobs in the IFSC has grown to 33,000 from 8,000 20 years ago.
Since 2011 more than 3,000 jobs have been created as a result of the advantageous decisions taken with IDA support for investment in this country. We hope that, as part of the strategy for the international financial services industry,10,000 net new jobs can be created by 2015. This figure is based on the reckoning of the industry. I will forward a copy of the strategy to the Deputy, if he does not already have one. A good start has been made with the first 3,000 jobs.
Does the Taoiseach accept that a balance is always required in dialogue with industry, which is necessary – the Clearing House Group has been effective in that regard – to ensure relations are not too cosy and that there is clear guidance on how to proceed and rules of engagement between the sector and Government officials? The financial services area is a competitive world. I regard the fact that 33,000 people are employed in the IFSC as a significant factor to be taken into consideration in any policy position we adopt. The creation of this initiative is an extraordinary and enduring legacy of the Fianna Fáil Government in 1987. There was a seminar on the subject in the Global Irish Economic Forum. The concern articulated by many who are aware of what is happening around the globe is that the challenge for the IFSC is to move to higher value activities and that there is a deficit in terms of the quality and skill sets of personnel required in view of the type of people we need to attract to this country from other centres with their products and companies over and above what we already have. It has been said certain of the activities ongoing for some time are vulnerable to migration to other low-cost regions and that we must attract higher value activities to the IFSC. The point has been made that there must be a combination of upskilling education and working through arrangements to encourage or incentivise individuals to move from one sector to the next.
If the Taoiseach reads what Paul Krugman or others have to say, he will be aware that they are clear that the "Great Recession", as they dub it, that we are now experiencing is fundamentally one that initially was a factor in causing the collapse of the financial and banking world. First and foremost, it was a global financial and banking collapse, followed by sovereign iterations of the problem when they took on board the financial collapse. I often believe there is an absence of contrition in the financial and banking world about this reality. It is in that context that I ask whether the Clearing House Group has discussed the issue of pensions or salaries. One invariably hears about global benchmarking in the setting of salaries and some countries tend to do it better than others. We have had discussions in recent weeks about the pensions and salaries of bankers. I presume the issue has been discussed between the Government, departmental officials and the representatives of the financial services sector. The sector has much work to do, with other sectors, to regain respect and credibility from the person on the street who is aghast, annoyed and angry at the scale of the salaries and pensions enjoyed by bankers. Were these issues discussed with the Clearing House Group and what has emerged from it?
Apart from the ESRI and the Central Bank, did the Government commission research on the likely impact on the industry in this country and the IFSC of a financial transaction tax? The proposal ultimately emanated from Brussels. Do we have hard evidence-based research on potential job losses or the impact of such a tax? I have heard various estimates, ranging from €150 million to €3 trillion worth of activity. We must have clear answers on that front. I would be interested in hearing whether specific research has been conducted in that regard.
It is only right and proper that there be balance in the dialogue between the public sector and the private sector. The Deputy is aware that this is not always a benign environment. The way companies operate is cut-throat and competitive.
In so far as the chairing of the Clearing House Group by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach is concerned, it is to provide a forum for discussion, analysis and views on how the industry might be both protected and developed. I accept the Deputy’s point about the opportunity to attract new skill sets in various areas. I refer, for example, to green finance, Islamic finance and also companies that deal with the processing of payments for other companies. I had the opportunity to open such a company recently in the IFSC. These are areas that are always under consideration.
A detailed report was produced by the European Commission on a financial transaction tax. It pointed to the scale of job losses that could occur. As the Deputy is aware, there are different views on such matters. The Department of Finance carried out research on the matter. I will ensure whatever research is available will be presented to the Deputy. I am not sure whether the Government commissioned a formal report on a financial transaction tax, but we came to the view that if such a tax was to be imposed in this country and not in London where the Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, was clear in his view on the matter, it would place the IFSC at a disadvantage.
We have moved on to making that clear at a European level, pointing out that the enhanced co-operation-----
It might be no harm to do a study.
I will look at what was done and follow it through.
The Deputy asked about pensions. There are five working groups in the IFSC and their roles are clearly set out. The first is the IFSC banking and treasury working group, which deals with banking, asset financing and corporate treasury, as well as taxation issues that arise from all areas of the international financial services industry in Ireland. It makes recommendations for improving the competitiveness of the industry in these sectors. Many of its proposals have been reflected in the recent Finance Acts, largely in respect of regulation. The IFSC banking and treasury working group includes representatives of the industry sector, banking and corporate treasury, industry financial advisors, accountants dealing with taxation issues and public sector representatives from Departments and agencies. I do not know whether they have discussed the question of bank pensions. This area is about asset banking and corporate treasury.
The second group is the IFSC CF funds working group which considers the administration and management of investment funds and examines the future of the funds industry in Ireland. Its work involves recommending the right legislative, regulatory and taxation issues, co-ordinating the market effort between IDA Ireland, Government and industry, and maintaining awareness of the impact of international developments on competitiveness. We hear about the last point all the time from industry. The group has as its mission statement that it will ensure that the quality of the environment and infrastructure for the wider funds industry in Ireland is comparable to and competitive with what is called "best in class" internationally. It states that this forum should be where experts in the public and private sectors can together prioritise relevant issues for resolution, which can be taken at a higher level, if appropriate. This group includes representatives and practitioners, relevant Departments and agencies in the Irish Stock Exchange.
The third group is the IFSC insurance working group, which considers issues of relevance to the continued development, expansion and competitiveness of Ireland as a reputable centre for the provision of insurance products and services. It includes proposals for and monitoring of fiscal and regulatory changes, and any other improvements that are deemed necessary to enhance and protect the international insurance sector, the co-ordination of marketing efforts and promoting and fostering working relationships between IDA Ireland, the Government and the industry. It maintains awareness of and analysis of the impact of international developments and aspects of business which affect the overall competitiveness and attractiveness of Ireland as a centre for insurance.
The fourth group is the IFSC pensions working group, whose role is to promote Ireland as a prime location for the centralised management of pension funds. That objective is best achieved by active collaboration and appropriate representation on the working group of the main interested parties, as well as individuals with particular experience, including industry representatives of multinational companies. The Departments of the Taoiseach and Finance, the Pensions Board, IDA Ireland and Financial Services Ireland are all members of the pensions group.
The fifth group is the IFSC asset management working group, which considers issues of relevance to the development of a broader based institutional asset management business in Ireland. Its focus is to advise the IFSC Clearing House Group on the fiscal and regulatory measures that are needed to promote Ireland as a centre for international asset management activities and to identify impediments - fiscal, regulatory, skills or otherwise - and suggest appropriate remedies. It also validates and supports the implementation of an appropriate marketing strategy.
These groups are all designed to fit in promoting Ireland and making it a better place for asset management business. Included are the Irish Association of Investment Managers, IAIM, industry practitioners, Departments, the Central Bank and State agencies, which all meet on a regular basis. I do not have the detail of what they have discussed but we will shortly publish on the website the minutes of the Clearing House Group meetings since last September. These will include the opinions and proposals of the five individual groups.
My question was whether pensions and salaries were discussed. Outside the financial world there is a significant sense that these people have set their own rates, globally. If we look at history, at the late 1920s and the analyses of the Wall Street Crash, the raison d'être and entire approach of the financial sector has been to create products and services that nobody - allegedly - could understand except the experts within the sector. They were the experts and because the layperson could not ever achieve their level of intelligence they dictated what the pay norms in the sector were. Their position was that they deserved these extraordinary sums of money and pensions because they are a super-league kind of people who can devise the most imaginative-----
Like Deputy Martin.
-----and intelligent products to sell in terms of pension funds, derivatives, or whatever. We saw where all of that got us. Throughout history the rest of society has tended to nod the head deferentially and genuflect in the direction of the financial elites. That is where we stand and it is time we challenged that position. I am all for the IFSC and for the jobs but we all accept this went too far in terms of the remuneration people awarded themselves. We are talking about people earning millions prior to the collapse, across the globe, in Europe and in Ireland.
Reform must begin somewhere and I would like to see a no-holes barred discussion with Government representatives and the industry through the clearing house mechanism. It would be no harm to give a sense of where the rest of society stands on this. Will the Taoiseach put that to the clearing house? There is a very real issue here.
I share the Deputy's view about contrition being required from the financial sector in general. A number of persons in this country have had charges placed against them in respect of their activities in the financial sector. The law will take its course, whatever that might be.
I would prefer if a discussion of that kind were to take place at a more local level, at the Cabinet sub-committee, which will have a broader remit in respect of banking. If there were a row, or a very competitive discussion between the private and the public sectors at an IFSC Clearing House Group, chaired by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach, it might not be so very beneficial. However, I share the Deputy's view of some of the truly extraordinary salaries and arrangements, both internationally and at home.
I outlined the five working groups. I do not believe they sat down and discussed salaries and pensions. I read out what their remit is, as working groups. When the minutes of the IFSC Clearing House Group are published on the website they will reflect what the groups have fed into the entire group for decisions at plenary session. I will take note of what the Deputy observed.
The Clearing House Group and its unprecedented relationship to Government and top civil servants, as described by the Taoiseach, begins to look like Ireland's dirty little secret when taken together with our extremely low corporation tax and the Taoiseach's unwillingness even to look at the issue of financial transaction tax. Is it not amazing that although the Taoiseach slavishly submits to every dictate for austerity made by the troika, when it comes to hitting public sector workers and pensioners, privatising public services, attacking low and middle income people and the vulnerable in our society, the one line he draws and stands against the troika is on the financial transaction tax and corporation tax? These are taxes that would hit the speculators and financiers, the very people who caused the crisis. However, the Taoiseach draws the line there and protects them. It seems we have discovered the reason.
Essentially, these are the speculators who caused the crisis and they have been given unprecedented access to the Taoiseach, the Government and top civil servants. They are writing the script for the Taoiseach - in some cases, as we have discovered, literally word for word - when it comes to his policy on these matters.
How is it possible that these people can have seven or eight meetings with the Taoiseach-----
Perhaps the Deputy will ask a question.
I just used the term "How is it", which implies a question. How is it that these people can have seven or eight meetings-----
The Deputy should abandon his speech on the financial services sector and ask a question.
For the third time, how is it that the financiers and speculators to whom I refer can have eight meetings at the highest level with the Taoiseach and with top civil servants while the representatives of the 450,000 people who are unemployed cannot do so? Why are the representatives of hundreds of thousands of workers not invited to such meetings in order to discuss the problems those people are facing or their ideas for job creation and the protection of their incomes? It is only the bankers and speculators who gain the level of access to which I refer. Should we not just remove the Tricolour from above all State buildings and raise the Jolly Roger instead? What the Government appears to be doing-----
This is Question Time.
-----is facilitating tax piracy and financial pirates at every juncture, while the ordinary workers of this country are continually hammered when austerity is demanded by the troika.
What the Deputy wants to do is to send Ireland down to Davy Jones's locker.
The Government is already doing a good job in that regard.
The problem is that the Deputy did not listen to the reply I gave in respect of the questions tabled by Deputies Martin and Adams regarding the number of occasions on which the Clearing House Group met.
Since September. I am concerned with the position for the entire year.
I indicated that it had met once since the Dáil returned from its summer recess on 25 September. The group is due to meet again on 22 November.
The Taoiseach indicated that it met on six previous occasions earlier in the year.
Deputy Boyd Barrett has made a charge to the effect that I met the IFSC Clearing House Group and bankers, speculators and so forth on seven or eight occasions.
The Taoiseach-----
I ask Deputy Boyd Barrett to please stop interrupting.
The Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach chairs those meetings. In my initial reply I also indicated that I met representatives of these groups on various occasions - at business functions, etc. - as is my responsibility and as is part of my remit. I have not been in attendance at seven or eight meetings of the IFSC Clearing House Group. I have been at pains to point out how that forum operates and also who chairs it. Perhaps the Deputy might include that information on the flag to which he refers and bear it in mind on the next occasion on which that banner is flown.
There are people who live in Deputy Boyd Barrett's constituency who work for one of the many companies that have invested in the IFSC. Just as he got his answer in the referendum on the fiscal stability treaty, the Deputy should bear in mind that some of those who live in his constituency work for companies which have invested in and operate out of the IFSC - Zurich, AXA, Generali, Allianz, Citibank, State Street International, J. P. Morgan, BNY Mellon, Bank of Montreal, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, Prudential, Northern Trust, UniCredit Bank Ireland, Pioneer Alternative Investments, HSBC and many more. Is he saying it is not appropriate that these institutions should invest in our country or that they should not have created, developed and maintained 33,000 jobs here?
The Government has made its view on the corporation tax rate of 12.5% - 11.9% effective across the board - very clear. For many years this rate has been a cornerstone of this country's ability to attract investment. However, it is not the only factor. Our position with regard to technology, our track record and our pool of talent are all factors when it comes to attracting investment. When one adds to these the fact that ours is the only English-speaking country in the eurozone, in the words of former US President Bill Clinton, this makes Ireland enormously attractive to investors. Whether it is in the wider sense outside the financial services industry or in the context of investment in Ireland in general, there are over 1,000 companies that have come here and that are driving our economy. Their efforts will play an enormous part as we make progress towards exiting the bailout.
I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that there is some kind of conspiracy at play or some type of cosy cartel in operation here. I am sure he has visited the Irish Financial Services Centre. He may have met and spoken to the people there - he may even know some of them - who work in the interests of this country in the context of creating job opportunities. We want not only to maintain what is happening at the centre but also to enhance and expand it. The financial services industry has indicated that it wishes to create a further 10,000 net new jobs by 2015. That is the value of this industry to our country. As I pointed out to Deputy Adams, some 3,000 jobs have been created in this area alone since 2011. We want to maintain and develop our strategy in respect of this sector in the interests of both the economy and our people, some of whom Deputy Boyd Barrett might meet on the streets of his constituency. He should not decry those individuals for the work they do.
Does the Taoiseach not find it extraordinary that what is essentially an arm of the Government is an institutionalised conduit for the world's financiers and financial speculators to have a decisive influence on Government policy in respect of crucial issues - the taxing of super wealth, financial speculation, etc. - which could have an effect on their profits? Whereas lobbying is part of the establishment and the capitalist political process, that to which I refer involves far more than lobbying. The Taoiseach referred to four working groups-----
I referred to five.
-----one of which is dedicated to dealing with the participation of hedge funds - including vulture capitalists - which have wreaked enormous damage internationally as a result of their speculation and related activities. Is it not extraordinary that these entities have such inordinate influence on Government policy? How on earth could they do anything other than oppose measures that would affect their super-profits? Would they tolerate tax increases in respect of their profits or a financial transactions tax? Would foxes return stolen chickens to a henhouse? The obvious answer is "No".
The big banking and financial institutions to which the Taoiseach referred and to which he is willing to concede such influence are precisely those operating in the financial markets about which we hear so much. They are part of this new dictatorship which is exerting influence over Europe and they created the crisis which is affecting the entire continent at present. If I were to ask whether he would consider establishing an Irish care for the elderly clearing house in order that home helps and representatives of elderly people could meet regularly to engage in discussions, etc., the Taoiseach would probably scoff at the idea. Is it not reasonable that the representatives of the majority and of the people who are suffering under austerity should have more influence on the Government than those who caused the crisis? Does the Taoiseach not accept the rationale being put forward in matters of this nature?
The Deputy is deliberately confusing the two. It was not the IFSC in Dublin which caused the country to go over the edge of the cliff-----
Many of those who work in it did so.
-----or which caused the extreme situation that obtains internationally. In the context of how it does its business and what it does, the IFSC is in a different league from commercial banks - with their lending policies, moves into the area of property and all the rest of it - which created a bubble that exploded, left the country in the lurch and saw to it that 150,000 construction workers became unemployed. Nor is this an institutionalised conduit of Government for dealing with the institutions in question. There are, after all, 33,000 men and women who are employed at the IFSC. These people do an enormously important job for both the economy and the reputation of the country. The Deputy should not brand them as being the same as those who operated in the other arm of banking, whose incompetence led to a debacle.
Policy is not set by the banks or the Clearing House Group; it is set by the Ministers and by the Government. It is perfectly in order for Ministers or for the clearing house group to hear the views of the industry, which after all employs 33,000 people, about the changing nature of advantages and opportunities for business abroad and how that might impact on this country. While these matters are subject to regulation, such regulation should be effective but not over-restrictive. That is a very important element for creating further advantage, brand image and the opportunity for people to work in it.
I had the privilege of launching its document last year. It describes the opportunities for future business in different and more creative ways. The Clearing House Group is a forum for the public and private sectors to come together. It is chaired by the Department of the Taoiseach and its brief is to look at the long-term development of international financial services. It is absolutely above board. There is no cosy cartel in operation. The minutes of the meeting will be on the website very shortly. I have written to the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform with the intention of giving the committee members a full briefing. The report which has been published will also be put up on the website of the Department. Far from it being some form of secretive, clandestine, conspiratorial, institutionalised conduit of the State, as the Deputy calls it, this is a very effective forum for dealing with job creation, improved investment in the country, the development of our economy, the creation of jobs and a much happier country. The Deputy may not support that but I have a very different view.
It is a pirates' cabal.
We will keep it as a very objective forum.
They should be taken into public ownership and under democratic control.
