Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 27 February 2013
7. Deputy Joan Collins asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the number of public sector workers who have retired in the last three years within his Department or any office or body under his aegis that have been reinstated; the pay rates they are receiving; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10373/13]
Amharc ar fhreagraIn response to the Deputy's question, the Public Appointments Service, PAS, in the course of running recruitment competitions for the public service, avails of trained and experienced individuals from the private and public sectors. Those assisting in this that are in receipt of a public or private sector salary receive no payment whatsoever. A fee per day is paid to retired individuals and to those from the private sector who forego earnings in order to facilitate PAS. The list of individuals who assist PAS in undertaking its task is constantly changing but would number several hundred. It would include retired public servants who act as interviewers, assessors or as decisions arbitrators. At any given time, there would be approximately 60 active who would be used from time to time for short periods.
For this work, retired individuals are paid on a fee-per-day basis and are subject to tax and other relevant deductions. The fees are linked to pre-retirement grades and take account of the principle of pension abatement. These positions are not advertised but any trained professional can apply to PAS to be placed on the database for our selection boards.
The outgoing chairman of the Public Appointments Service board, who is a former civil servant, was reappointed by me in September 2011 and is paid a stipend of €11,970 per annum. The chairperson of the PAS internal audit committee is also a former public servant and was paid a fee of €2,137.50 in 2012. She was appointed by the former chief executive of the PAS on the basis of her experience in the area of corporate governance.
The Office of Public Works has engaged the services of a former member of staff for the period of the EU Presidency. This person was selected because of previous experience of EU Presidencies and other important events. The abatement principle was considered to be a cost-effective way of contributing to the smooth running of all Presidency events in Dublin Castle. The cost of that person's services to the OPW is approximately €28,000. Other than in the bodies already mentioned, no retired public sector workers are currently on my Department's payroll.
The wording of my question may have led to its being misunderstood. The phrase "or body under his aegis" refers to the wider role of the Minister in public sector reform and throughout the public service. I am trying to get information on the phenomenon of the re-hiring of people who took early retirement and were in receipt of big lump sum payments. Although people who are retired from the top echelons of the public service and in local authorities have very substantial pensions, it is often the case that days or weeks following retirement they are being re-hired on salaries which, when combined with their pensions, are effectively at the level of their previous salaries, along with significant retirement lump sums. I was hoping to get informative figures on the extent of this phenomenon. I take the point that the question may not specify that request. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that this is happening, which is alarming. Levels of public services are declining, resulting in long waiting lists for social welfare and other areas. Front-line services are suffering due to the moratorium on recruitment, while people who were at the top of the public service and in local authorities are being taken back after retirement. That is a big problem.
I do not disagree with the Deputy. He makes a very fair point. I am accountable for my own Department. The Public Appointments Service and the Office of Public Works are the only bodies that have engaged such people. The Public Appointments Service needs experienced people with high status to make evaluation decisions. In general terms, there has been a laziness in some quarters - perhaps a predisposition to appoint people who are known and who have been in senior positions in public administration, even though they have been very well provided for.
I will not mention the name of one individual who is well known. She undertakes a significant amount of pro bono work and does not ask for one cent, even for expenses. There are public servants who do this and it is to be commended. By and large, the principle enunciated by the Deputy is an important one. On foot of the Deputy's inquiry I will contact my colleagues to point out that this should not be a general principle.
I welcome the Minister's response. It would be useful to quantify the extent to which this is happening, because it grates hugely with people who are lower down the ladder. It also raises the question of why people were retired if their skills were still required. Either they should have been retired or they should not have been. If retired, they should have stayed retired and those on the live register should have been given the opportunity to take up those jobs. The situation needs to be examined. The perception could be created - rightly or wrongly - of jobs for the boys.
I refer to individuals who retire and are re-hired by agencies. I note the HSE spent more than €200 million in 2012 on agency doctors and nurses. It is not known how many of them may have been public sector retirees. Will the Minister confirm the figures for each Department in which employees who availed of retirement before February 2012 have been re-employed on an agency basis to do the same job? It would not be deemed very fair if this was a widespread practice.
In reply to Deputy Boyd Barrett, the most effective way of getting that information is for the Deputy to table a parliamentary question to all my colleagues. I should not be encouraging that sort of thing but I will write to my colleagues as this information would be useful. Each line Minister would be able to answer that question.
In reply to Deputy Wallace's question about agency workers, the main focus of the new set of recommendations from the Labour Relations Commission is to minimise as far as possible the practice of buying in agency workers in order to get the best value from the cohort of people who are working full-time within the public service by not having to pay excessive premium pay, by extending working hours and so on. I hope this will mitigate the situation. The simple answer to the Deputy's question is that I do not know, for example, how many agency nurses are retired HSE staff who are on pensions. I do not know the answer to that question.
