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Garda Industrial Relations Issues

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 2 May 2013

Thursday, 2 May 2013

Ceisteanna (5)

Pádraig MacLochlainn

Ceist:

5. Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he has held any recent meetings with the Garda Representative Association and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors to address the wide range of concerns the representative organisations have repeatedly publicly aired. [20925/13]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (5 píosaí cainte)

In early autumn I invited the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, to discuss issues of mutual interest. I met with AGSI representatives on 19 October for nearly two hours in a constructive and businesslike meeting. I also spoke at its recent conference. However, the GRA never responded to my meeting request. I am always available to meet with representatives of either the AGSI, the GRA or the other Garda representative associations to discuss with them issues of concern to them and to their members. In addition to this, there are ongoing discussions between the Commissioner and his senior management and all the Garda associations on day to day matters as they arise in the Garda Síochána.

There has also been the recent negotiations on an extension to the Croke Park agreement. The aim was and remains to achieve the necessary savings in the public sector pay and pensions bill while at the same time ensuring a fair contribution from all. I regret that the GRA and the AGSI did not take the opportunity to take part in those discussions and to seek to have their concerns taken on board to the greatest extent possible. As has been made clear on many occasions by the Government in recent weeks, a rejection of these proposals does not change the fact that to conform to our budgetary targets and continue on our path to economic recovery, we need to make savings this year of €300 million. The Government has asked the chairman of the Labour Relations Commission to contact the parties to establish if there is a basis for moving forward, and I hope that there will be positive engagement by the GRA and the AGSI in this process. The reality is that a reduction in the public service pay and pension bill – because of its sheer size - must form part of the solution to our financial and economic difficulties.

I am fully conscious that any adjustment to pay and conditions can cause difficulties for members of the Garda Síochána, just as it can for other members of the public service. At an individual level there have been pay reductions, and for the force in general there are constraints on its budget. I fully understand how difficult this is at an individual and operational level and I earnestly wish that things were different and that we had inherited a situation where the public finances were in a healthy state. This, however, as everyone knows, is not the case and Government must take whatever measures are necessary to restore our fiscal sovereignty. I also recognise the important role that members of An Garda Síochána play in our society. It is especially praiseworthy that they have shown this dedication and commitment in these most difficult times.

As the Minister knows, the GRA annual conference is taking place this week and I had the opportunity, like so many others, to listen to the reports from Ms Valerie Cox for the Pat Kenny programme when she spoke directly to gardaí about the issues affecting them. Morale is at its lowest level and, sadly, the relationship has broken down between the Minister and the association, meaning he is the first Minister in 35 years not invited to attend the conference. Nobody wins in that case, which is deeply regrettable.

How can the Minister stand here today and speak about not engaging? Gardaí cannot form a union and right now the AGSI is taking a case to Europe to allow gardaí to form a union and negotiate pay and conditions. It has also proposed an independent commission to examine matters like pay, which has been supported by the Garda Commissioner. What will the Minister do to try to resolve this crisis? It is definitely a crisis when the relationship between the Minister of the day and front-line gardaí or, specifically, the organisation representing 10,500 gardaí, has broken down. We need to sort out the issue as nobody wins in the current scenario.

It is unfortunate that the GRA approaches a number of issues in the manner in which it does. It is unfortunate that it uses, with some regularity, inflammatory language. I recognise that there are members of the Garda force - as there are others throughout the community - who are suffering some personal financial difficulty. Not all the difficulty being suffered is directly connected to the pay and conditions of members of the Garda force. It may be a consequence of other issues and in some instances it is down to property investments that have, unfortunately, not worked out because of the property bubble bursting. The difficulties being experienced by some members of the force are replicated by others in the public sector and many in the private sector.

With regard to the GRA conference, I made a decision in circumstances in which I was not invited to the conference that I would not engage in a megaphone discussion from one part of the country to the other, from Dublin to Mayo, in responding to issues. I have said in the past and I repeat today that my door is open to meet members of the GRA, as it is to meet members of AGSI and other Garda bodies, to discuss issues of concern. Operational decisions on day-to-day matters are made by the Garda Commissioner and An Garda Síochána are a disciplined force. The members of the force, including members of the GRA, should show respect for the Commissioner, who provides leadership.

It was unfortunate and inappropriate that when he concluded his address to the conference, he was greeted with silence.

The GRA should consider the manner in which it approaches issues. I am concerned about some of what was said in circumstances where the Garda is being extraordinarily successful and deserves all our praise for its success in bringing those engaged in criminality to justice in circumstances where crime figures are substantially down, with burglary down in the last quarter of 2012, compared to 2011, by 11%. It is time the Garda representative bodies gave public acknowledgment to the successes achieved by members of the force, for which each and every member of the force deserves praise, and moderated their language and engaged constructively on matters of genuine concern.

To be fair about this, the relationship between the GRA and the Minister of the day has been antagonistic for a number of years. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in the last Government had a big row with the GRA as it was about to deliver a condemnatory address. This happened before the Minister's time in office but it serves no one's interest that it continues. I appeal to both the Minister and the GRA to resolve these issues. We cannot continue to have megaphone diplomacy. It is great for headlines, it will get the media interested, but it is terrible for the morale of gardaí on the ground. When I met gardaí on the beat they tell me, like they tell every Deputy, they do not have the personnel or the vehicles and that they are not happy about the closure of Garda stations. These gardaí, who are on the front line, are raising legitimate issues. The Minister might not be able to solve all of their problems but we must deal with this relationship breakdown that started with the previous Government and has continued into this Administration.

I agree with the Deputy that there should be a more constructive relationship between the Garda representative bodies and the Minister of the day. We have a history of this. I can recall when the Garda reserve was being established and the GRA fell out with the then Minister. There are now 1,100 members of the reserve and they are providing an important back-up to the full-time members of the force. There will be another graduation ceremony later this month for members of the Garda reserve in Templemore.

I wish members of the GRA, in the interests of all members of the force, would adopt a more constructive approach to issues and moderate the language they use. It is of vital importance for the continuing reputation of the force that it shows the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána, a man of outstanding ability, the full respect he deserves. Its present stance on this matter is inappropriate. I am willing to take any criticism people want to make but it is inappropriate for the Garda representative bodies to address issues in language that shows a complete lack of respect on occasions for the Commissioner. It is for the public to judge how they deal with issues related to me.

I should respond to one point, the call for an independent review of pay and conditions in the Garda Síochána. The AGSI also raised this and I addressed it at the AGSI conference, although my remarks got little notice. I said that a review of pay and conditions, taking into account any related Garda organisational or structural issues, is a matter that could be considered as one of a range of possible medium-term measures in discussions on achieving savings from the public service pay bill. However, consideration of any such proposal could not take away from or act in any way to postpone the absolute need to achieve the immediate savings required this year. I am giving favourable consideration to the proposal. It must deal with a broad range of issues, including pay and allowances, and it is important. I recognise the value in modernising the structures that exist to take account of present day realities. This is not an issue that can be dealt with in the context of postponing addressing the immediate pay issue.

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