Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 9 October 2013
1. Deputy Sean Fleming asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his views on whether the full targeted savings under the Haddington Road agreement will be achieved in 2013 and 2014; the implications of the rejection of the agreement by the ASTI for the achievement of the target; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42568/13]
Amharc ar fhreagraThe Haddington Road agreement sets out the basis of a further €1 billion contribution by the public service pay and pensions bill to our fiscal recovery through a series of equitable and sustainable measures. These measures will allow for the creation of a more streamlined and unified public service. In addition, the agreement will give certainty to public servants over the next three year period.
As Members of the House are acutely aware, we entered into discussions with trade unions with an ambitious target of agreeing on a number of measures aimed at reducing the public service pay and pensions bill by €1 billion by the end of 2015 and by €300 million this year. That was the basis on which we engaged with staff representatives and it was the imperative on which any agreement had to be delivered. As I have stated previously in the House, the Government is satisfied that the provisions set out in the Haddington Road agreement will deliver the targeted savings of €300 million this year and €1 billion by 2015.
The agreement has already started to deliver in terms of significant cost reductions, increased productivity, changes to work practices and key reforms. The €300 million savings target for 2013, arising from measures under the agreement, was incorporated into the various Votes in the context of the Revised Estimates, which I published last April as the Deputy will recall. In this context, Deputies will be aware that the Exchequer returns at the end of September show that expenditure is being effectively managed within those voted allocations. The Haddington Road agreement is playing a key part in ensuring expenditure continues to be contained within those relevant ceilings.
I find the outcome of the ASTI ballot on the agreement regrettable. The Government is fully supportive of the Minister for Education and Skills in seeking to minimise the disruption the industrial action taken by teachers will cause in classrooms, while seeking to ensure the integrity of the public service agreement, and the achievement of the necessary savings from the education sector pay bill. I again ask the ASTI to examine the costs to its members of remaining outside the Haddington Road agreement and to reflect further upon this matter, particularly given that the non-implementation of this agreement will have the greatest impact on young, newly qualified teachers.
I thank the Minister for that general reply. He confirmed there will be savings of €300 million this year and in regard to the Croke Park agreement, now the Haddington Road agreement, that serious savings are targeted for the health services in particular. I know the Minister will say that savings are a fraction under budget but there seems to be underlining trends in that cost savings have not been fully agreed and there seems to be a breakdown in the overall management of the HSE finances in that figures are coming in on a region by region basis but not adequately on an overall basis. Some funding last year could not be accounted for in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report in terms of where overruns occurred. The Minister might be able to tell us if there will be a Supplementary Estimate for the health area as a result of the Haddington Road agreement not being implemented in full in the course of this year.
The Minister expressed his support for the Minister, Deputy Quinn but I hope he would agree with me that his opening remarks following the ASTI vote, when he spoke about the issue of compulsory redundancies, were at best most unhelpful.
I cannot be definitive on whether there will be a Supplementary Estimate for the health area. I can tell the Deputy that the most recent figures we have, which I just published last week, show that every line Department is within profile, either below its voted expenditure limits by the end of September or on target. Out of an amount in excess of €6.9 billion, the Department of Health was €1 billion off target, and we will have to monitor that between now and the end of the year. As the Deputy knows, health is a very volatile area in terms of demand. We do not know whether there will be a winter vomiting bug or something else that would dislodge matters, but as of now the Department is on target, and I hope that will be the case for it. I will forward the Deputy a breakdown of the €300 million savings figure arising out of pay if he is interested in how we apportioned it for the year. It might be helpful in pursing this in committee where there is more time to pursue these matters.
I acknowledge what the Minister said. I look forward to receiving the e-mail to be forwarded to me and I will study it. It will be helpful, especially in light of the budget next Tuesday.
A monetary mechanism is an element that may be missing in respect of the Haddington Road agreement. Is there a proper monetary mechanism in place in respect of it? We had a good implementation committee in place that produced regular reports which showed cost savings, and most people were comfortable when there was a body doing that. What arrangement has the Minister in place in order that members of the public who are the taxpayers can be satisfied these targets are being achieved and that they are not simply being masked in the overall public sector pay bill, namely, that they are attributable to the Haddington Road agreement? I would ask the Minister to have some external people from the pubic service management and public service trade unions involved in that process It would add credibility to such a process if one or two outsiders where involved in it and people would be more satisfied about it.
Does the Minister propose to contact the Labour Relations Commission or the Minister for Education and Skills regarding the ASTI? What actions will the Minister take to ensure students are not disadvantaged? This is all about pupils at the end of the day.
The Deputy has asked a number of questions. First, in regard to the monitoring apparatus for the new Haddington Road agreement, Deputies opposite were quite critical of the monitoring of the last one. I thought it was a good monitoring system because it gave quantifiable savings and some of those were externally audited again by a firm of auditors. I am open to suggestions in that regard. The last monitoring system was exclusively in-house in that it involved the unions and the management of the public service. I do not know whether some external person might be better, but I am willing to hear any ideas in this regard.
On the ASTI dispute, the union is the only one outside the agreement. We cannot allow the Haddington Road agreement to unravel. It is a critical part of the economic projections on the road to recovery. ASTI members understand that and I would hope we would have some engagement. It will be a matter primarily for the Minister for the Education and Skills to ensure the ASTI is brought within the fold. That would be in its members' interests.
