Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 24 October 2013
3. Deputy Mattie McGrath asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the reason the Government has not adopted a policy of forcing all 400Kv powerlines underground; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45355/13]
Amharc ar fhreagraDevelopment of the high voltage electricity grid as planned in the EirGrid Grid25 strategy is critical to Ireland's economic and social development. Ensuring secure, reliable and safe supplies of electricity is critical to Ireland’s ability to attract inward investment and retain and create jobs.
While the case for proceeding urgently with energy infrastructure in line with overall economic social and energy policy goals is critical to the national interest, I am aware that many people are concerned about the impact that new transmission lines and other energy infrastructure can have on the landscape, the environment and on local communities. Accordingly, it is essential that Grid25 and other energy infrastructure are taken forward on the basis of the best available knowledge and informed engagement on the impacts and costs of different engineering solutions.
Neither the Government nor I seek to direct the energy infrastructure developers to particular sites or routes or technologies, as was made clear in the July 2012 Government policy statement on the strategic importance of transmission and other energy infrastructure. That statement emphasises that these are matters for the developers and for the forward planning process through regional and local development plans and at project level through the development management process. In this context, energy infrastructure developers are encouraged to work with the forward planning processes at regional and local levels to set clear contexts for assessment of individual applications for planning consent and to facilitate as wide a degree of consensus as possible as to how and where to meet grid development needs.
The Government, as detailed in the July 2012 policy statement, expects the companies in making their choices of project specific technologies and routing, as well as mitigation measures, to take account of all relevant national and international standards, to follow best practice and ensure value for money and be informed by detailed consultation at local level.
It is a wonder that the Minister did not blame the last Government for this as well but in fairness to him, he did not. As we are led in everything by Mrs. Merkel, I do not know why Ireland cannot adopt the technology that is in place in Europe and now is the preferred option in Europe for high-voltage cables. Why did the Minister allow consideration of overhead pylons when it already has been decided in Europe that the best technical option is to have such cables placed underground? In his reply, the Minister referred to engaging with people, with the forward planning processes and with local and regional development plans.
That is a load of claptrap because the Minister knows about this better than I do. I heard him speak about this when he was on the opposite side of the House three or four years ago when there was talk of going up to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd's constituency with these lines. I knew what the views of the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, were at that time and I still know what they are but now this has all changed. The Minister and the Minister of State can laugh but that is the fact of the matter.
There is provision for protected views in the county development plan, on which I worked with the council officials, including protected views of Slievenamon, the Galtees and the Knockmealdown Mountains in Tipperary. Has the Minister costed the damage this would do to tourism? A Bord Fáilte survey showed that 24% of people asked said that these monstrosities would impact adversely on the region. Clearly, this energy will be of no benefit to the Irish economy as it will be exported. It is a case of big business and one of smash and grab. Like everything else, the Minister seems to be letting them do what they like; he is rubbing his hands and saying it all someone's else fault. He is the man in situ to ensure that the people's views are listened to. Thousands of people are turning up to meetings and they want answers; they want fair play and consultation.
The Deputy is like Cathy Barry's dog; he goes a bit of the road with everyone. I was not laughing, I was merely-----
Bhí tú ag gáire.
-----pointing out that in respect of the Deputy's claim that he heard me three years ago-----
I did
-----talk about a project-----
And the Minister's colleagues.
-----in the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd's area, I never opened my mouth on that one. We will have €100 on it if Deputy McGrath can prove to the contrary.
It was not allowed in any event.
Deputy, please.
As regards undergrounding, when the Deputy is not performing in the Dáil, in his private moments he will admit that we need energy supply for social and economic development. What is involved here is a €500 million investment to ensure that Munster has sufficient energy supply for economic and domestic needs into the future. EirGrid has learned from previous experience. The reason the Deputy knows about this is that EirGrid has been engaged in a public consultation process opening offices along the route to consult with local citizens about how and where is the optimum route.
That is baloney.
The Deputy knows well that unless we maintain the transmission system we will pay a heavy price for it.
On the Deputy's point on undergrounding, he is not correct in saying that undergrounding is the norm in Europe. The traditional overhead is still the norm and, as we have established elsewhere, the cost of undergrounding is approximately three and half times the cost of-----
That is not true.
It is true. We have had three experts from Scandinavia and, with all due respect to the Deputy's renowned knowledge, those three are experts on projects across Europe and that is the figure that they came up with.
The Deputy also accused me of claptrap in regard to something in his response, which I cannot remember.
The Minister will reply to the Deputy again, no doubt, in due course.
Deputy McGrath might remind me of what that was about.
I do not know whose dog the Minister talked about but he is like Murphy's cow with two dry tits, one blind tit and a sup of milk in the other tit. That is all the Minister is like. It is like the promises he made. Who can trust him about anything? He said on a programme recently that one makes those kinds of promises in the heat of an election. He also said that the people of Tipperary who did not have televisions were cavemen. That is the kind of obnoxious attitude he has.
A question please, Deputy.
He is lying down and letting the big business get on with this. The Labour Party, a socialist party, was founded in my town of Clonmel. The Minister is allowing big business ride roughshod over the whole community; they have him opening shops and offices and getting him up on a JCB to turn a sod to make this look good. The Minister has really fallen into the trappings of power and into delivering whatever Angela wants. All the Ministers will be fighting to go Europe for the EU Commissioner's job because they will not want to face the public. The people of Tipperary are not going to allow these to go ahead. I am pro-business and pro-economic development but I want reasonable account to be taken of people's right to live in safety, in health and to enjoy their environment and not be persecuted by these obnoxious pylons. The figure cited that the underground option would cost three times the overhead option is untrue. I understand this work a small bit. I am not saying I am the salmon of knowledge on everything but I have a small bit of experience in this kind of work and I know that is a lie. It is an untruth. I am not saying that the Minister came up with that cost but it is not three and half times the overhead option. He should go back and check that and maybe count the tits on Mrs. Murphy's cow.
Whatever about the tits on Mrs. Murphy's cow, to be honest that contribution by the Deputy was about as useful as tits on a bull.
The fact of the matter is that EirGrid has gone out of its way-----
It has not.
-----to consult locally.
It is a sham.
I regret that the Deputy should dismiss as claptrap and out of hand a €500 million investment programme designed to bring secure and safe energy to the south of Ireland-----
And to hell with the people - to hell or to Connacht.
-----in the future. To dismiss it out of hand is entirely unreasonable.
I was in the Deputy's constituency today and I missed him because he always gives a very warm welcome.
Of course I would.
I can assure the Deputy that I never accused any Tipperary man of being a caveman; I said the opposite.
The Minister said-----
I said there are no cavemen in this country-----
-----that anyone who did not have a television was a caveman.
-----and I did not mention Tipperary at all. I want to clear that I did not say that at any stage.
The Minister did. I heard him say it.
No, the Deputy did not.
The Minister was talking about televisions and he said that anybody who did not have a television was in a cave.
The Deputy is so busy talking he never hears anything; he is so busy talking he does not listen.
I do listen.
The Minister to conclude.
This is a good news story-----
Not for Tipperary.
-----and it is very important that the concerns of local communities and local citizens are taken into account-----
But they are not. That is my point.
-----and it is for that purpose that EirGrid has set up an expensive consultation process, along the line of the approximate route yet to be fixed on, where it can hear local representative organisations, local representatives, councillors and citizens make their feed in, as appropriate, to the process.
The Minister is like the Taoiseach; he is living in a cocoon.
