Departmental Agencies

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 27 November 2013

Wednesday, 27 November 2013

Ceisteanna (3)

Shane Ross

Ceist:

3. Deputy Shane Ross asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the total sum of the grants given by quangos in his Department for job creation purposes since he came into office; the number of jobs that have been totally or partially created by these grant giving quangos; the cost per job across all those agencies; his estimate of the value of the quangos individually in his Department; if he has changed his mind on the need to replace the boards of all the quangos he inherited; his views on whether the directors of those bodies are worth their fees from the State; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50614/13]

Freagraí ó Béal (12 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Richard Bruton

The total value of grants paid by agencies of my Department in the years 2011 to 2013 is €641 million. This comprises €268 million by IDA Ireland, €313 million by Enterprise Ireland, €42 million by the county enterprise boards, and €18 million by InterTradeIreland.

The total gross number of jobs created in those years assisted by IDA Ireland and EI comes to an estimated 90,000 jobs between 2011 and to date in 2013. The cost per job for IDA Ireland and EI is based on the cost per job sustained over a seven year period. They currently stand at €13,475 for IDA Ireland and €12,597 for EI. The cost per job for the CEBs in 2012 was €6,181, while the cost per job for InterTradeIreland in 2012 was €12,251, although in the latter two cases the calculation is on a different basis.

The agencies in my Department are performing very well in a challenging environment. They are driving a vital transition from an economy founded on property to one built on enterprise, exports and innovation. Their impact is measured by the gross job creation in enterprises supported by them, the net job movements across their portfolio as well as numerous agency-specific key performance indicators which are regularly published. I am encouraged by the progress across almost all of these indicators at a time of declining staff in these agencies.

These agencies are an integral part of the development and delivery of Action Plan for Jobs. They are driving an export-led recovery through work in the marketplace and an increased number of trade and investment missions. The boards of the agencies have put in significant effort in steering these agencies through this transition. They bring insights from relevant backgrounds and, in replacing members, I seek people who will supplement the capacity of the respective agency.

Deputy Shane Ross

I thank the Minister for his reply. I would like to say "Well done" on yesterday's CSO figures. While they are a photograph of a point in time, they are an improvement and that should be acknowledged.

The reason I asked for these data is I am doubtful about the role played by these State agencies and it is difficult to say whether the assistance they give creates jobs. We know they exist and the jobs are created, but the cause and effect are difficult to prove and the cost per job is still high.

I accept the figures the Minister has given and I am grateful for them. Some years ago when the Minister was in opposition he made a most perceptive speech at the MacGill summer school saying that when Fine Gael came to power it would get rid of the boards of all the quangos. I do not make a political point; it is more of a political plea. It was a very good idea. I no longer expect, in the light of what has happened and following statements made by Ministers, any Minister to keep a promise but I would like to know if the Minister still holds that view. He said that significant insights have been made on the performance of the semi-State bodies of which he is in charge.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I thank Deputy Ross for acknowledging the progress made on the employment front. It is always difficult to discern cause and effect but there is no doubt that IDA Ireland, for example, is deemed internationally to be one of the most effective agencies at delivering employment opportunities in a very competitive environment for foreign direct investment. Equally, following the collapse the challenge for Enterprise Ireland was significant in terms of picking up small Irish-owned businesses and bringing them into export markets. Against that background, at a cost per job of €13,000, we know that each year a person is taken off the live register the Exchequer gets €20,000. If those jobs are sustained there is a clear benefit.

The paper to which the Deputy referred was one in which I spoke about virtually all of government and how public service reform could be introduced. I suggested that over time new governments should consider replacing boards after a period had elapsed. I did not in any way indicate a promise on behalf of Fine Gael. If the Deputy reads the speech he will see there are many other suggestions about how we could improve. As Deputy Ross is aware, statutes set out the way in which boards are replaced, which is typically two per year, and that is the basis on which I work.

Deputy Shane Ross

I do not accept the Minister’s interpretation of his paper but I will look it up again when I have time.

Deputy Dara Calleary

It was a pre-election statement.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Deputy Ross is revising it.

Deputy Shane Ross

I can understand why he has interpreted it in that way at this stage of his career. The Minister inherited quangos with State-appointed boards and directors from the previous Government. To be charitable, the Minister promised a great deal of reform of the boards. That has not happened. The boards are large. The average number of directors on the boards of which the Minister is in charge is more than ten by my latest count, nearly all of whom are paid. There are some extraordinary anomalies. Why in the name of God does the board of the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority, IAASA, for instance, have 15 people when the board of IDA Ireland, for which the Minister has so much praise has, perhaps rightly, only 11?

Deputy Richard Bruton

The size of the boards are set out in statute. One would have to go back to read the wisdom of the Oireachtas originally.

Deputy Shane Ross

The Minister makes the law and he promised reform.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I did not promise to change the statutes and to introduce 12 new Bills to try to change boards without any analysis of the merit of such a case. The Deputy is putting forward the case that we should reduce the size of the boards but he has not offered any coherent argument.

Deputy Shane Ross

I have not had time but I will.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I am willing to listen to argument. Let us take the case of the IDA board. It includes such people as Lionel Alexander of Hewlett-Packard (Manufacturing) Limited, Liam O’Mahony of CRH plc., Paul Duffy of Pfizer and so on. Many of them have waived their fees for participation on the board. They are people of considerable quality in sectors we need to bring to bear in the work of IDA Ireland. The boards are quality boards delivering a quality service. One could equally say that of various other boards. By and large board members are there for the right reasons. Perhaps that is not the case all the time but we are very careful. We advertise board vacancies and try to get the best talent available.