Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 18 December 2013
5. Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for Health if he will establish a timeframed independent inquiry into the practice of top-up payments to senior executives at section 38 entities; the steps he has taken to impress on all such bodies that these payments must cease with immediate effect; if recoupment is being pursued; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [54127/13]
Amharc ar fhreagraThe recent focus on salary top-ups was not just about the irregular practices at the Central Remedial Clinic. The Health Service Executive and the Department themselves have, in some cases, approved top-ups of a very substantial nature. Does the Minister agree that a timeframed independent inquiry into such practices at all section 38 entities is now required?
I have initiated this process arising from the Health Information and Quality Authority report into practices at Tallaght hospital. I requested that the Health Service Executive conduct an internal audit of all section 38 funding recipients. As a result of this audit, as has been reported extensively, a considerable number of funding recipients have been found to be in breach of Government pay policy with regard to the remuneration of senior staff. I have requested urgent action to ensure every agency is fully compliant with Government pay policy.
The HSE has a team of senior managers following up with individual agencies. The director general of the HSE met with the chairpersons and chief executive officers of all section 38 organisations last Thursday. That meeting focused on the requirement of the board of each agency to strengthen governance standards. Also agreed was a new requirement to furnish the HSE with a compliance statement from the current financial year and for each year thereafter. This statement will have to be approved by the board of each agency on an annual basis, signed by the chairman and another director on behalf of the board, and submitted to the HSE together with the organisation's annual audited accounts. This annual compliance statement will be required in addition to the annual service agreement between the agency and the HSE.
Further and separate meetings are being held by senior HSE managers with all of the disability organisations and hospitals concerned this week to ensure that a clear plan to achieve full compliance with health sector pay policy is developed with each agency.
The question of recoupment will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. As indicated, the HSE is urgently meeting individual agencies and it is important that due process is followed. I have no plans to establish an independent inquiry into the practice of top-up payments to senior executives at agencies funded under section 38 of the Health Act 2004.
Time will show that an independent inquiry was required because one of the first things that has to be established or re-established here is public trust and confidence, which has been seriously dented. I believe the issues involved are more than just the top-ups themselves, although they are the most vexatious. We have also seen exposed the unusual arrangements in regard to pensions and other issues. However, if we do not know the questions, it is very difficult to get to the core of what is involved. An independent inquiry will establish a number of irregular practices and, hopefully, contribute to their eradication.
In the context of all of this, and of the efforts the Minister has just outlined to us, has he ensured that patients of these entities are not to be further penalised by further Government funding cuts in the HSE service plan to be announced later this morning?
It is important to point out the HSE has been investigating this issue and it is the body which revealed what we now know. There are further revelations that will become apparent when it is finished its investigation. The investigation will not be a finite thing that suddenly stops and that is the end of the matter. As I have already said, new arrangements are being put in place to ensure people remain compliant. The HSE is taking this very seriously. It has 17 senior management staff involved in pursuing these organisations to ensure public pay policy is in place. Equally, as we know, people who give charitable donations want to be assured that those donations will be used for the purposes for which they made them. To do otherwise is to betray public trust in the most shocking way.
While the Minister is leaving it to an evaluation on an individual basis, I believe he should signal in the strongest possible terms that recoupment is indeed a target of the exercise. I believe the funds should be restored to their intended target area, which is the services to the patients involved. Again, I am very concerned that it is the HSE on which we are depending in this instance given the top-up arrangements within the HSE put a question mark as to its suitability in this regard. I understand that it can certainly do the initial work but an independent inquiry is, I believe, the way to go.
In the spirit of the day that is in it and the times we are living in, does the Minister agree with me that the most important people in all of this are the patients who avail of the vital services provided by section 38 bodies across our health services? Will he join with me, as I am sure he and all colleagues in the Chamber will, in a public appeal to citizens to maintain their strong support for all charitable organisations which are providing most important services to our people, services that simply would not be there but for the generosity of the Irish people? They cannot afford to take the hit that is currently being recorded. I ask everyone to be of one voice on that.
As the Deputy will know, I have already made that appeal very publicly on the airwaves and television screens of the nation. The Irish people have always been very generous, I suppose because of a deep and dark past and the experience we had two centuries ago. Even in hard times, they were never found wanting in giving to others who were less fortunate than themselves. I certainly appeal to the generosity of people and ask them not to be put off by these recent events. These matters will be resolved. The last people we want to suffer are those for whom the charitable donations were made in the first instance. I know, having spoken to them, that many of the organisations have suffered a reduction in contributions so I would ask people to think again and perhaps to give as they have before.
In regard to the whole area of an independent inquiry, I believe that is not necessary at this juncture. However, I would never rule out such a thing in the future if it became necessary as a result of the investigations being carried out by the HSE.
