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Irish Water Staff

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 4 February 2014

Tuesday, 4 February 2014

Ceisteanna (88)

Clare Daly

Ceist:

88. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the analysis conducted by his Department of the PricewaterhouseCoopers, PWC, report which led to the establishment of Irish Water and the discussions he has had with the LAPO, local authority professional officers, of SIPTU, other local authority unions and management on staffing. [5024/14]

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Freagraí ó Béal (11 píosaí cainte)

This question relates to the establishment of Irish Water, based on a PWC analysis which local authority engineers stated contained significant errors, omissions and inappropriate comparisons which have led to a frenzy about the idea of local authority workers standing around doing nothing.

I assure Deputy Clare Daly that local authority workers are not standing around doing nothing.

The Government decided in December 2011, based on the recommendations of the independent assessment, to establish a public water utility company to take over the operational and capital delivery functions of local authorities in the water services area. The Government also decided the question of whether the role of Irish Water should be assigned to an existing State Agency merited further analysis. This further analysis considered the capacity and capabilities of a number of State agencies with the potential to incorporate a new water utility and was undertaken by a team comprising my Department and NewERA, in consultation with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The analysis concluded that Bord Gáis had key capabilities which could be brought to bear in the establishment of Irish Water. These capabilities could be paired with the experience and commitment to service in local authorities, as well as the specific water and wastewater capabilities and expertise that exist in local government, to build the new organisation within the Bord Gáis Group.

As part of the reform process a specific structure, the Irish Water consultative group, chaired by Mr. Kevin Foley of the Labour Relations Commission, was established in 2012 to facilitate engagement between unions and management on the water sector reform programme. The deliberations of this group included discussions regarding the human resources aspects of the reform process.

We have been subjected to a frenzy in the media over the past while about local authority workers standing around doing nothing under the new arrangements with Irish Water. It is a campaign led by a media largely owned by Denis O’Brien, who obviously has a vested interest in the whole Irish Water scenario. The decision to set up Irish Water as a stand-alone entity was based on inaccurate comparisons with Scottish Water.

As was pointed out to the Minister, the reality is that the aforementioned PricewaterhouseCoopers analysis referred to the Irish water pipe network as being 25,000 km in length when it was actually 50,000 km long. It also referred to a workforce in Scottish Water of approximately 1,600 workers, whereas in reality, the number of workers was nearer to 4,000. As a result, spurious comparisons are being made about workers in local authorities currently engaged in managing the water supply being idle under the new arrangement. Is it not true that the Minister's decision to set up Irish Water has more to do with the possibility of privatising the service in the future than any beneficial advantage in remediating or dealing with Ireland's water supply, which task the local authorities were doing quite well and which they would have been doing a lot better had the Government and its predecessors invested in it properly?

First, there will be no privatisation of Irish Water unless the Deputy is going to support this in the future. I have no intention of bringing that proposition to the Government or the Oireachtas and I note it would require an Act of the Oireachtas to change the legislation passed in respect of this matter.

All of the private consultants have it already.

The Deputy is welcome to the Chamber. The criteria used to assess the relative merits of an existing utility versus a greenfield operation meant the Government gave consideration to existing semi-State companies. In order to leverage savings and their capability, the Government considered Bord na Móna and Bord Gáis Energy on the grounds of certain criteria, including legal and governance, regulatory or transitional or criteria for dealing with customers, as Bord Gáis was. I suppose that was the overriding advantage as to the reason Bord Gáis was able to deal with the setting up of a new public utility such as Irish Water. It was able to compete better across the range of approximately ten or 12 headings in the view of NewERA and the Department in taking on these new responsibilities. Moreover, by leveraging this expertise and these skills, as well as the software and hardware systems Bord Gáis already had in place, it was possible to save €87 million. This is not a stand-alone entity but is being set up within the local government system through service level agreements and the Bord Gáis group. I agree with the Deputy that the workers of local authorities are doing a great job. They will continue as local government employees with the expertise and knowledge and in the role they have had during the years. Obviously, this will be subject to review each year as part of the service plan.

The dogs on the streets know that Irish Water has been a ridiculous waste of money and that there is no benefit to it.

I do not know to what dogs the Deputy has been speaking.

I am unsure whether the Minister heard the point I was making, which was that the decision and the analysis made to set up Irish Water were based on inaccurate and, frankly, wrong information. Incorrect figures were given for the pipe network in Ireland, as well as the number of people employed in Scottish Water. As a result of that incorrect analysis, the Government has had a false policy. The local authorities, where they could do so, were dealing with improving water conservation and fixing leaks but instead, under the guise of allegedly dealing with Ireland's primitive water structure, one has the establishment of a new company. While all of the waste products, septic tanks and wastewater facilities, are being left in the hands of local authorities, responsibility for the water service is being given to Irish Water and the only logic to this scenario pertains to the commodification of the water supply. The Minister is well aware that once one starts to charge for a public service in this way, one cannot stop private operators from bidding to get their greedy claws on it. Consequently, his commitments that there will be no privatisation, frankly, are not very comforting.

I do not know to what dogs the Deputy has been talking on the street, but I assure her that there will be no privatisation of water services by the Government. Although I do not know, perhaps she might support a future Government in that regard and may have something in mind. All I can do is to set out what is the current and the future position of the two parties in government on Irish Water. There will be no privatisation.

The Government carried out a highly detailed analysis - not just that contained in the PwC report - of water services. It is making a significant investment in respect of the quantities and quality required for the Deputy's constituency, the greater Dublin area and the east coast, in general. A capital investment programme will be announced in the next couple of weeks by Irish Water which I hope will identify many of the gaps and demands to ensure and safeguard the supply of water that evidently is wholly inadequate in the Dublin area. The margin one needs in any particular area is 15%, but we are down to a figure of just 3%.

Maybe Deputy Clare Daly is happy to allow the waste of water in the existing system to continue. We are not. We want to double the amount of investment and we will do that through one centralised model rather than through 34 local authorities. I am surprised Deputy Clare Daly does not welcome the fact that it is being done through public ownership and a public utility.

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