Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014

Other Questions

Local Authority Housing

Ceisteanna (87)

Bernard Durkan

Ceist:

87. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the extent to which the various relevant local authorities have brought to the attention of his Department the seriousness of the housing crisis which relates to the lack of any available houses in the short term, the emerging problem of homelessness and the ongoing problem of families living apart due to lack of accommodation; if reference has been made to the lack of available private rented property; the lack of suitable family-type accommodation and the attendant emerging social problems arising; if a housing emergency can be declared in those areas most seriously affected by the housing shortage with a view to putting in place urgent measures to tackle the problem immediately; if submissions have been received from the local authorities detailing their respective housing requirements relative to the numbers on their housing lists; if it is expected that the resources made available in the recent budget might be brought on-stream now in order to address the problem; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4926/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (8 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

This question arises as a result of the serious and daily emerging housing crisis that exists in the counties in the eastern region, in particular those adjacent to Dublin - Kildare being one of them - and the urgent need to do something about a problem that, undoubtedly, the Government inherited. However, that should not mean for one moment that we would fail to recognise that it is now a growing crisis that needs to be addressed.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The Government’s 2011 housing policy statement clearly outlines that the priority for Government will be to meet the most acute needs of households applying for social housing support. I am addressing that priority in the context of the resources available to me. In July 2012, I announced details of a three-year funding programme of €100 million to deliver some 800 new units of voluntary and local authority-owned social housing. In 2014, funding of more than €587 million is being made available across a range of housing programmes. This includes a €50 million capital stimulus to support construction and related programmes, primarily in the housing area, including €30 million to recommence a State house building programme; €10 million for an unfinished housing estate resolution project; and €10 million for housing adaptation grants. When that is taken into account, funding for housing for 2014 is effectively maintained at 2013 levels.

With the benefit of the additional capital for new housing construction, I intend to announce details of a new social housing construction programme for local authorities for the period 2014 to 2015. I expect that up to 650 new social and voluntary homes will be delivered under these measures. I also intend to announce details of a special investment of €15 million for the retrofitting of boarded-up local authority houses to bring these back into productive use. I expect the measure will deliver some 400 homes for persons in need of social housing. The homelessness oversight group, which I established in 2013 for the purposes of reviewing the progress of the approach being advocated in the homelessness policy statement, has submitted its first report to me which is available on my Department’s website, www.environ.ie. I am currently considering the group’s recommendations.

My Department understands that some local authorities are experiencing difficulties in sourcing suitable accommodation for households transferring from rent supplement. That said, in 2013, local authorities transferred more than 4,700 households from rent supplement to the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, and other social housing options. Of this figure, my Department estimates some 2,400 would have been accommodated in the private rented market.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

My Department maintains regular and effective communication with housing authorities on key housing priorities. This is greatly facilitated through the City and County Managers Association, CCMA, which has a dedicated housing sub-committee in place. In spite of the financial constraints within which we are required to operate, I expect the final output across all social housing programmes for 2014 to be in the region of 5,000 new housing units.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive reply. I know she is doing everything possible. However, I am afraid that events are catching up with us all. In my time in public life I have never seen the urgency of the situation that is now presenting itself. A number of families have presented as homeless that ordinarily would have been able to provide themselves with homes. They cannot rent a house because none is available. They cannot buy a house because no finance is available from the lending sector. The position that is now emerging is not like it was 20 or 30 years ago where somebody got a mobile home and planted it beside a house because that is now prevented by planning rules and regulations. The emergency housing facilities and hostels are full and there is no place to go. Some couples with children are now living in the open air. Due to the severity of the winter for the moment they are accommodated by their respective families but families have broken up as a result of the situation. In light of the situation could an emergency measure be taken to address the more serious parts of the issue with a view to achieving results in the very short term? We do not have time to play with.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I recognise that there is huge pressure, in particular on some local authorities. I will ensure in the allocation of funding that we are aware of the local authorities that have the most pressing needs. We are recommencing a reconstruction programme. The fact that public capital budgets were cut to such an extent in recent years because of the recession and the economic collapse has meant that the amount of housing available for social housing by means of the previous system of construction has not been available to us and we have had to use methods such as leasing, which addresses immediate problems for families. However, we are returning to construction.

There is no doubt we have to use every measure we can irrespective of whether that involves getting NAMA units. The funding I will be announcing for the voids programme will bring back many local authority houses that are lying idle because they need significant work done to them. We are using every measure we can to address the problem which is acute in certain local authority areas.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister for her reply and compliment her on the work she has done to date in identifying the problem. However, I would emphasise that the problem is so serious now that it will not go away. It will explode into a serious social issue which we have not contemplated. There are a large number of families in certain circumstances who are unable to source a house. We now have large families attempting to access two-bedroom accommodation units, which is crazy.

I appeal to the Minister that this matter be dealt with at the highest level, which I know is happening, and an emphasis be placed on the urgent need to meet the housing requirements of the kind of families to which I and other Members have referred. This is a serious issue, the like of which I have not dealt with before in my time in public life.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

Some of the issue relates to rent supplement and rent caps. My colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, reviewed the rent caps recently but there is a constant pressure in that particular area. The transfer of long-term rent supplement, which came under the Department of Social Protection, to the local authorities, which comes under the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, will address the area of rent caps as this will move to a system where people pay rent on the basis of their ability to pay, like local authority tenants do, and move away from dependency on rent supplement.

I appreciate this is an urgent problem but we are doing all we can through various methods to provide housing for those on local authority housing waiting lists and the families as described by Deputy Durkan.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

Question No. 89 is identical to this one. Why could they have not been grouped together? We are going to come back to the same question and answer when we take Question No. 89.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As we are over time, we will deal with it later. It is the way the Department deals with the questions. We need to move on to Question No. 88 in the name of Deputy Clare Daly.

Irish Water Staff

Ceisteanna (88)

Clare Daly

Ceist:

88. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the analysis conducted by his Department of the PricewaterhouseCoopers, PWC, report which led to the establishment of Irish Water and the discussions he has had with the LAPO, local authority professional officers, of SIPTU, other local authority unions and management on staffing. [5024/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (11 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Clare Daly

This question relates to the establishment of Irish Water, based on a PWC analysis which local authority engineers stated contained significant errors, omissions and inappropriate comparisons which have led to a frenzy about the idea of local authority workers standing around doing nothing.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I assure Deputy Clare Daly that local authority workers are not standing around doing nothing.

The Government decided in December 2011, based on the recommendations of the independent assessment, to establish a public water utility company to take over the operational and capital delivery functions of local authorities in the water services area. The Government also decided the question of whether the role of Irish Water should be assigned to an existing State Agency merited further analysis. This further analysis considered the capacity and capabilities of a number of State agencies with the potential to incorporate a new water utility and was undertaken by a team comprising my Department and NewERA, in consultation with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The analysis concluded that Bord Gáis had key capabilities which could be brought to bear in the establishment of Irish Water. These capabilities could be paired with the experience and commitment to service in local authorities, as well as the specific water and wastewater capabilities and expertise that exist in local government, to build the new organisation within the Bord Gáis Group.

As part of the reform process a specific structure, the Irish Water consultative group, chaired by Mr. Kevin Foley of the Labour Relations Commission, was established in 2012 to facilitate engagement between unions and management on the water sector reform programme. The deliberations of this group included discussions regarding the human resources aspects of the reform process.

Deputy Clare Daly

We have been subjected to a frenzy in the media over the past while about local authority workers standing around doing nothing under the new arrangements with Irish Water. It is a campaign led by a media largely owned by Denis O’Brien, who obviously has a vested interest in the whole Irish Water scenario. The decision to set up Irish Water as a stand-alone entity was based on inaccurate comparisons with Scottish Water.

As was pointed out to the Minister, the reality is that the aforementioned PricewaterhouseCoopers analysis referred to the Irish water pipe network as being 25,000 km in length when it was actually 50,000 km long. It also referred to a workforce in Scottish Water of approximately 1,600 workers, whereas in reality, the number of workers was nearer to 4,000. As a result, spurious comparisons are being made about workers in local authorities currently engaged in managing the water supply being idle under the new arrangement. Is it not true that the Minister's decision to set up Irish Water has more to do with the possibility of privatising the service in the future than any beneficial advantage in remediating or dealing with Ireland's water supply, which task the local authorities were doing quite well and which they would have been doing a lot better had the Government and its predecessors invested in it properly?

Deputy Phil Hogan

First, there will be no privatisation of Irish Water unless the Deputy is going to support this in the future. I have no intention of bringing that proposition to the Government or the Oireachtas and I note it would require an Act of the Oireachtas to change the legislation passed in respect of this matter.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

All of the private consultants have it already.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Deputy is welcome to the Chamber. The criteria used to assess the relative merits of an existing utility versus a greenfield operation meant the Government gave consideration to existing semi-State companies. In order to leverage savings and their capability, the Government considered Bord na Móna and Bord Gáis Energy on the grounds of certain criteria, including legal and governance, regulatory or transitional or criteria for dealing with customers, as Bord Gáis was. I suppose that was the overriding advantage as to the reason Bord Gáis was able to deal with the setting up of a new public utility such as Irish Water. It was able to compete better across the range of approximately ten or 12 headings in the view of NewERA and the Department in taking on these new responsibilities. Moreover, by leveraging this expertise and these skills, as well as the software and hardware systems Bord Gáis already had in place, it was possible to save €87 million. This is not a stand-alone entity but is being set up within the local government system through service level agreements and the Bord Gáis group. I agree with the Deputy that the workers of local authorities are doing a great job. They will continue as local government employees with the expertise and knowledge and in the role they have had during the years. Obviously, this will be subject to review each year as part of the service plan.

Deputy Clare Daly

The dogs on the streets know that Irish Water has been a ridiculous waste of money and that there is no benefit to it.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I do not know to what dogs the Deputy has been speaking.

Deputy Clare Daly

I am unsure whether the Minister heard the point I was making, which was that the decision and the analysis made to set up Irish Water were based on inaccurate and, frankly, wrong information. Incorrect figures were given for the pipe network in Ireland, as well as the number of people employed in Scottish Water. As a result of that incorrect analysis, the Government has had a false policy. The local authorities, where they could do so, were dealing with improving water conservation and fixing leaks but instead, under the guise of allegedly dealing with Ireland's primitive water structure, one has the establishment of a new company. While all of the waste products, septic tanks and wastewater facilities, are being left in the hands of local authorities, responsibility for the water service is being given to Irish Water and the only logic to this scenario pertains to the commodification of the water supply. The Minister is well aware that once one starts to charge for a public service in this way, one cannot stop private operators from bidding to get their greedy claws on it. Consequently, his commitments that there will be no privatisation, frankly, are not very comforting.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I do not know to what dogs the Deputy has been talking on the street, but I assure her that there will be no privatisation of water services by the Government. Although I do not know, perhaps she might support a future Government in that regard and may have something in mind. All I can do is to set out what is the current and the future position of the two parties in government on Irish Water. There will be no privatisation.

The Government carried out a highly detailed analysis - not just that contained in the PwC report - of water services. It is making a significant investment in respect of the quantities and quality required for the Deputy's constituency, the greater Dublin area and the east coast, in general. A capital investment programme will be announced in the next couple of weeks by Irish Water which I hope will identify many of the gaps and demands to ensure and safeguard the supply of water that evidently is wholly inadequate in the Dublin area. The margin one needs in any particular area is 15%, but we are down to a figure of just 3%.

Maybe Deputy Clare Daly is happy to allow the waste of water in the existing system to continue. We are not. We want to double the amount of investment and we will do that through one centralised model rather than through 34 local authorities. I am surprised Deputy Clare Daly does not welcome the fact that it is being done through public ownership and a public utility.

Deputy Clare Daly

We will see.

Local Authority Housing Provision

Ceisteanna (89)

Brian Stanley

Ceist:

89. Deputy Brian Stanley asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the number of new social housing units that were built by local authorities in 2013; the current number of local authority homes here; and the amount by which he intends to increase that number by the end of 2014. [5030/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (12 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Brian Stanley

We spoke earlier in answer to a previous question on the housing shortage. What I want to know specifically is the number of housing units built by local authorities in 2013, the number of local authority houses we have in the State and what the Minister will do about this crisis we have.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

While the figures in respect of housing completions for the fourth quarter of 2013 are not yet available, I expect that some 5,000 units of accommodation were delivered across the full range of social housing measures last year. Delivery of social housing is significantly facilitated through more flexible funding models such as the rental accommodation scheme and leasing, but the Government continues to be committed to other funding mechanisms, including the use of private finance by approved housing bodies, AHBs, for the construction and acquisition of social housing units.

In July 2012 my Department announced a construction and acquisition programme for the local authority and voluntary sectors over the period 2012 to 2014. This comprised 808 units of accommodation in total, involving 185 units by way of local authority construction, 246 local authority house purchases, 111 units of construction under my Department’s capital assistance scheme and 266 acquisitions by AHBs.

Over the course of 2013 my Department issued funding approval for the acquisition of a further 385 units of accommodation involving 250 local authority and 135 AHB house purchases. As I am awaiting returns for quarter four in respect of housing completions, I cannot as yet provide firm figures for the year as a whole. However, at the end of September more than 400 units had been completed.

In terms of overall social housing numbers, the eighth annual report on service indicators published by the local government management services board in April 2013, which details service indicators in local authorities in 2011, put the total number of dwellings in the local authority social housing stock at 130,810. Looking ahead to 2014, I recently signalled a return to modest levels of new housing construction over the next two years. I expect around 1,000 new starts over that period. Some 400 of these will be delivered under the local authority housing construction programme, 250 will be delivered by approved housing bodies and 350 new homes will be provided under regeneration. I will be making more detailed announcements on each of these measures shortly.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I thank the Minister of State, but the problem is that she is only scratching the surface. There is a major housing crisis. The Minister of State said 185 council houses were built last year. There are more than 100,000 people on the waiting list. Housing need has doubled. In County Laois the housing waiting list has more than doubled over the last four years. Fewer than 500 NAMA properties have been developed. Private rents are increasing. Some of the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, tenants who rely on social leasing are being moved on because landlords decide they want to end the contract. There is a major housing need. Dublin City Council built only 29 houses last year although it has a waiting list of 16,000.

I want the Minister of State to view this differently. She might have a job convincing her partners in the Government, but back in the Marian year, under her party, many council houses were built. I want the Minister to consider the economics. In County Laois, for example, I estimate that the amount of rent revenue coming in will be almost €5 million this year. The amount spent on housing maintenance is €700,000. Local authority or council housing does not have to be a drag on the economy or on local authority budgets. House building is cheap now. I want the Minister of State to view this differently. We need a significant house building programme.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I have no ideological argument with Deputy Stanley. That is why we are commencing-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

What about Deputy Hogan?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

Deputy Hogan is not stopping me from building houses either. Unfortunately, what stopped us from building houses over the last number of years was the Celtic tiger boom and bust during which, despite the fact that a very large number of private houses were built, the local authority house building programme was not enormous. Later it was seriously constrained by the agreement with the troika whereby capital funding had to be cut back year on year.

We have turned the corner and are in recovery, which is why we are beginning again to construct local authority housing and I intend to ensure we continue with this. I accept what the Deputy has said in terms of need, but, unfortunately, we inherited the situation as it was and we are only now beginning to get back to construction. For that reason, we are using whatever methods we can, including NAMA units, leasing, the RAS and all of the other methods, to house people.

One of the more positive programmes this year will be the voids programme, a programme for dealing with void or empty local authority housing that can be brought back into use. We also want to encourage local authorities to turn around their empty houses as quickly as possible. Some are much better than others at placing new occupants in houses as soon as they are vacated.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are almost out of time as we only have six minutes for each question. I ask Deputy Brian Stanley to be as brief as he can be.

Deputy Brian Stanley

The programme to deal with void units is a good measure, but there are very few such units in County Laois. On funding, I accept that there is no crock of gold anywhere, but the European Investment Bank will lend at low rates for genuine projects where we can show a revenue stream and a cash return. There is no cash return in the leasing of social housing, as money is just being poured into black holes. I accept the budgetary position has been difficult in the past few years, but the Minister of State has said we have turned the corner. We are in a different position on housing and there are sources of funding. I put it to the Minister of State that in accessing money and it showing up on the balance sheet, there is an opportunity to set up housing trusts through the local authorities in order that the moneys can be sourced off balance sheet, invested and provide a return. A key element of such a scheme is that after rent has been collected for ten or 20 years, the house can be sold to the tenant, if he or she wishes to purchase it. The problem with social leasing and the RAS is that the moneys go into a black hole and cannot be taken back, yet we still have to find a home for these tenants and families. Leasing and the RAS are very short-term measures.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

We have made an application to the European Investment Bank for €100 million, to be used for the provision of local authority apartments in major cities. However, it will probably not affect County Laois. This is the first application we have submitted, but we will keep the option in mind for other construction projects.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I hope the Minister of State is not considering Labour Party heartlands only.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

With regard to trusts, if local authorities want to set up voluntary housing bodies, we will not stop them. Also, we are moving towards regulation of the voluntary sector in order that it will be better able to raise funds. In that regard, I will meet the new regulatory authority tomorrow, but at this stage we are only implementing a voluntary regulatory code, in conjunction with the voluntary housing sector. We are moving towards new ways of providing funding in order to provide social housing.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I must ask the Minister of State to look beyond the Pale. If the Government is borrowing €100 million, she must look beyond Dublin to other parts of the country. Houses are needed throughout.

Irish Water Establishment

Ceisteanna (90, 455)

Catherine Murphy

Ceist:

90. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will make available a full copy of the foundation document compiled in his Department in 2013 in relation to Irish Water; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4978/14]

Catherine Murphy

Ceist:

455. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will make available a full copy of the foundation document compiled in his Department in 2013 in relation to Irish Water; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5141/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (11 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Catherine Murphy

This question calls for all documents relating to the creation of Irish Water to be made available to the public. One thing that causes concern and encourages people to believe something else is happening other than what is put in the public domain is the need for them to retrospectively root out information. The creation of Irish Water should have been a much more open process from the start; it should not be about trying to extract information. The Minister said he was not going to micro-manage the project, but why would people not start to think there is something more to the project when the Minister will not provide information publicly? I call for the foundation document to be provided.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I propose to answer Questions Nos. 90 and 455 together.

I have no difficulty with providing any information and if there are documents such as a foundation document, I will make them available to the Deputy. The document to which I assume she is referring is the project initiation document - the starting process in the early days in the Department back in 2012 - which was compiled by Bord Gáis Energy and related to all of the issues that needed to be examined in the setting up of Irish Water. If this project initiation document is the document to which the Deputy refers, I will be glad to make it available to her and all Deputies and place it in the Oireachtas Library.

It deals with the assumptions underlying the programme and the objectives, scope, plan and structure for the programme. It outlines a detailed view of the blueprint of the organisation and the critical path for delivery, including tasks associated with the establishment of the company, the appropriate organisational structure, the functional and business capability and a detailed analysis of what is required from a financial, legal, regulatory, customer and people perspective to achieve establishment in the required timeframe. All of these issues were referred to in detail by the Irish Water executive when it appeared before the committee.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

We do not want to discover in six months time that there is another piece of information. It is essential that whatever is available is provided in order that people can scrutinise it and ask questions. Whatever the merits of Irish Water, we need to have this process. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform constantly comes here to speak about new ways of doing things, stating it is not about freedom of information but having a more transparent approach from the word go. That is exactly what should have happened in this case. As we keep speaking about this being a major initiative, why has this position not been adopted? If doing things differently is the ultimate aspiration, why is this about retrospective freedom of information rather than a transparent approach?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin, has dealt with the issues regarding freedom of information. We have put in place and set in train the necessary orders to ensure it will happen as quickly as possible. We have absolutely nothing to hide with regard to the establishment of Irish Water. It is a very difficult task to establish a new public water utility in the timeframe laid down by the troika. Constraints were put on us and work had to be done in the first place to ensure the right decision was made in the view of the Government with regard to all of the studies conducted. We must do it in a new way because the existing 34 authorities delivering on behalf of the taxpayer do not work as 40% of the pipe network leaks. Successive Governments have invested much money in rehabilitating the pipe network, but 40% of it still leaks. We are examining new and innovative ways to get more capital into the system and deliver the water service product because if we do not, we will have serious problems in the Deputy's constituency and the Dublin area, in particular.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

My question is whether Irish Water has merits or if it has been hugely discredited by virtue of the fact that information has been dragged out of the Department. Even with regard to the amount of money invested, it came as a huge surprise to many that it had gone to private consultancies. To be perfectly honest, I am still trying to get my head around how €40 million could have been spent on IT in a very short period of nine months because it suggests a major project could be delivered in such a short space of time. This is the money that was spent. Why would people not have been concerned when they saw neither a framework for spending the money in advance nor a more transparent process?

Deputy Mick Wallace

The Minister has stated successive Governments spent lots of money in trying to fix the leaks from the pipes. In reality, neither the previous Government nor this one spent any money on fixing the pipes. Almost 12 months ago when I asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, whether he would fix the pipes before he started spending money on installing meters, he stated absolutely, even if it cost €500 million. Wastewater services will remain within the remit of Irish Water, but local authorities want to deal with pollution. Is this fair, given that it seems local authorities will be cleaning up after problems created by Irish Water's failure to deal with wastewater properly? Responsibility for surface water will remain with local authorities. We all know flooding will be a big factor in the future and is unpredictable. Does the private sector not have an appetite to deal with the unpredictable, such as water problems?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Deputy Mick Wallace is very familiar with difficulties we had in the construction boom in pipes being put just under the surface of the ground, the lack of building controls and dealing with various other issues.

We are trying to deal with those as well, and we will deal with them in respect of new building code regulations as well as investment in the first-leak policy.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Most of the problems with the leaks in this city are 4 m and 5 m down.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Deputy knows all about it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy. The Minister to reply.

Deputy Phil Hogan

What we are trying to do is deal with a huge legacy in regard to under-investment in water services, and we must do that under the constraints of a public capital programme, which will be a problem for the next few years whether we like it or not. Dublin, and the east coast in particular, cannot wait that long for investment in water.

Deputy Murphy should be aware that in the traditional sense we have spent approximately €12 million on consultants in terms of legal and accountancy services. The hardware and software IT systems are essential to setting up a new public water utility company in the same way as they were for the single electricity market for electricity generation on which €256 million was spent. By dealing with Bord Gáis in this way we are saving €87 million.

The Deputy might want to be politically blind about this because after all the explanations she got from the Irish Water people as well as the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht she does not want to see where these savings are made or that we have to do it in this particular way. I challenge the Deputy to tell me the cutbacks she will make in housing, education and health to provide the capital programme for water. The Deputy will find that very difficult to do but we have to find a new way of getting investment in water. This is the vehicle we intend to use to ensure we will not run out of water on the east coast in eight to ten years time.

Planning Issues

Ceisteanna (91)

Denis Naughten

Ceist:

91. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government his plans to revise the planning legislation on the taking in charge of housing developments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4839/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (10 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Denis Naughten

I have tabled this question because the regulations in the legislation have changed in that previously they stated that the majority of residents could request that an estate be taken in charge. That has changed now to refer to the legal owner. Where owner-occupiers form a minority in an estate, that causes huge problems.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

My Department is currently considering, in consultation with Irish Water, the amendments to section 180 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, which relates to the taking in charge of housing developments, that will be required in the context of the establishment of Irish Water and the transfer of water and wastewater infrastructure assets to Irish Water. My Department will also consider whether it is appropriate to make further amendments to section 180 on the taking in charge provisions generally in the context of the forthcoming planning Bill, which is being progressed primarily to implement the main recommendation of the Mahon tribunal for the establishment of the Office of the Planning Regulator but which will also review other elements of the Planning and Development Act. I intend that the necessary legislative amendments would be made as soon as possible.

I appreciate that is a general answer and the Deputy has raised a specific issue on which he may have further questions.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I have raised a specific issue because section 181 of the Act was changed. It stated that the majority of the people on the register of electors could sign a petition to the local authority requesting that an estate be taken in charge but the law has been changed now to refer to the legal owners. That causes two problems. First, because of the tax designation and so forth in many parts of my constituency, developers are continuing to hold on to some of the properties. The owner-occupiers, therefore, do not form a majority of the residents in the estate and it is very difficult for them to force the local authority to take the estate in charge. That causes huge problems. Second, in terms of trying to source that legal documentation, particularly if one is in difficulty with the bank, the last thing one wants to do is go into the bank to look for legal documentation that one can show to the local authority to prove one is the legal owner of the property.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I appreciate that there is a specific issue in that regard. The legislation refers to the owners of housing units. As I said, significant planning legislation is due to come forward and I will examine it to see whether, with regard to taking estates in charge, there are areas that need to be changed. I would make the point, however, that the local authority does not have to wait to get this request from the legal owners. It can initiate the process of taking in charge but I appreciate the Deputy is raising a specific issue, which relates to changing demographics and the fact that the majority of occupiers of houses in any one estate may not necessarily be the owners. I appreciate the Deputy raising the issue.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I would make two points. First, the Minister of State needs to check that because she may be legally incorrect in that regard. A request has to be made by either the developer or the legal residents for the estate to be taken in charge.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The developer can request it as well.

Deputy Denis Naughten

The difficulty is that the developer is left with responsibility for it because of the way the legislation is worded. Why was the reference changed from residents - that is, the people who are on the register of electors - to the legal owners? Given the amount of bureaucracy involved in proving legal ownership, would it not make more sense to use the property register as a mechanism to identify owner-occupiers, who have a long-term interest in their estates, rather than landlords or developers?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I could comment on why the legislation was changed but, obviously, I was not the person who changed it. Deputy Naughten asked me to examine the current situation. I will consider the issue in the context of forthcoming legislation.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I also wish to express concern about this issue. It has always been the case that residents were consulted in regard to estates being taken in charge. However, the process of taking an estate in charge can last between four and eight years. We are still chasing the completion of certain estates to this day. I fear the final decision will be left to people who own their properties. It would be outrageous to tell people living on these estates that they do not have a say or cannot request that they be taken in charge. We cannot leave it to a small number of people to make the decision.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

As I noted earlier, we will be introducing significant planning legislation in the near future. The primary intention of the legislation is to implement recommendations arising from the Mahon tribunal and to ensure the planning system is trusted. Any Member who has been on a local authority will be aware that issues relating to taking in charge of estates occupy a significant amount of attention for councillors and residents. I agree that we should examine the legislation in this regard on a regular basis. With regard to the Deputy's questions about the length of time involved and ownership versus occupancy, we will have an opportunity to debate these and other issues in the context of the forthcoming legislation.

Local Authority Housing

Ceisteanna (92)

Bernard Durkan

Ceist:

92. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if provision will be made to augment the direct local authority house building programme proposed in the recent budget, with particular reference to the urgent need to tackle the housing shortage in County Kildare and adjoining counties; if arrangements will be made for senior officials in his Department to engage with officials of the respective local authorities with a view to taking immediate steps to address what is now a serious housing crisis; if urgent provision will be made to put in place a major house building programme to yield sufficient housing units to meet the requirements of those families who are now on the local authority waiting lists, some for up to ten years; if such provision will address the problem that has arisen due to a lack of adequate provision in this regard since 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4927/14]

Freagraí ó Béal (11 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

My question pertains to the serious housing crisis in north Kildare and the need for senior officials in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to liaise with the relevant officials in Kildare County Council with a view to identifying how best to proceed. There are currently 8,500 families on the local authority's waiting list and the figure is growing on a daily basis.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

This is an issue we have discussed already in the context of an earlier question.

Deputy Barry Cowen

On a point of order, who grouped the questions?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I also want to hear the answer to that question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I understand the Department groups the questions.

Deputy Barry Cowen

It will be another six weeks before the Ministers opposite are before us again for Question Time, and the last time they were here was six weeks ago. In the space of 12 weeks, we cannot get answers to the questions we table in the House. They tell us we have openness and transparency but the only change has been for the worse.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

We cannot even get answers to questions we have tabled.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is Deputy Durkan's question. Questions are answered by lottery and we must operate the system we have agreed.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

As outlined in the Government’s housing policy statement of 2011, the main focus in terms of housing supports provided by Government will be on meeting acute needs, with increased reliance on more flexible, revenue-based approaches based around the rental accommodation scheme, the leasing of properties and the use of private finance by approved housing bodies for the construction and purchase of properties. The constraints on the State’s finances and the necessity to reduce public expenditure to sustainable levels rule out a return to large-scale local authority housing construction programmes. That said, I recently signalled a return to modest levels of new social housing construction, with 1,000 new starts expected over the period 2014-15. Four hundred of these will be delivered under the local authority housing programme, 250 will be delivered by approved housing bodies and 350 new homes will be provided under regeneration. I will be making more detailed announcements with regard to each of these measures shortly, including on projects in Kildare. In addition, my Department and the Housing Agency continue to engage with NAMA to ensure continued delivery of housing units for social use.

This year, in addition to the funding levels set out in the abridged Estimates for 2014 in respect of my Department’s social housing investment programme, a further €30 million has been approved for the delivery of social housing. Some €15 million of this will go towards the local authority construction programme, with €15 million being invested in bringing boarded-up houses back into productive use. As a result, I expect that some 450 vacant houses will be made available to persons on housing waiting lists this year.

In terms of the consultation process, my Department’s housing division maintains regular and effective communication with housing authorities on key housing priorities. This is greatly facilitated through the City and County Managers' Association, which has a dedicated housing sub-committee comprising a representative group of managers and directors of housing. Meetings between this group and my Department take place at regular intervals, including twice-yearly plenary sessions with all directors of housing in attendance. My Department will also be meeting with directors of housing from all local authorities shortly as part of our annual housing action plan process. These routine meetings at housing practitioner level provide a forum for effective oversight of capital budgets and housing programme management.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State for her comprehensive reply. Even since I first stood up to introduce this question, however, I have received a text message regarding a family who will be homeless tonight. This is happening on an hourly basis. Will the Minister of State instruct senior officials in her Department to make contact with the relevant officials in Kildare County Council with a view to taking emergency steps to address the emerging crisis?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

As I noted previously, we have resumed construction of local authority housing. That is an important development in terms of the Government's intentions and we intend to continue investment in this area. Officials in my Department meet regularly with directors of housing and county and city managers, but if it is necessary to hold a meeting specifically with officials from Kildare County Council, I am sure my officials would be happy to do so at the earliest opportunity.