Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 15 May 2014
5. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will provide an update on discussions he has had with his UK and Northern Ireland counterparts in relation to the HGV road user levy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21591/14]
Amharc ar fhreagra13. Deputy Joe McHugh asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will provide an update on the issue of the UK HGV levy, in operation since 1 April 2014, following the recent meeting in Armagh of the North-South Ministerial Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21590/14]
Amharc ar fhreagra29. Deputy Dessie Ellis asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has sought any advice on the possibility that the HGV levy proposed by the British Government would be in breach of European competition or other business standards in view of the fact that it confers an advantage on businesses within its jurisdiction and undermines the haulage industry in neighbouring states; if not, whether he will commit to doing so; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21593/14]
Amharc ar fhreagraThis topic has obviously arisen on a few occasions. I am aware that it is in some ways beyond the Minister's power given that the UK authorities are allowed to do what they are doing. I realise the matter was debated recently in the Northern Ireland Assembly. It was stated that Secretary of State Theresa Villiers can exclude roads from the levy through an affirmative order. Therefore, if there is a will, there is a way. While the UK authorities can say what they are doing is within their rights under EU regulations, they could take a more friendly approach considering the strong relationship between our two countries.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 13 and 29 together.
As the House was informed at the last Question Time, there have been considerable discussions held with my UK and Northern Ireland counterparts on this issue. This issue has been raised by the Taoiseach with Prime Minister David Cameron and it has also been discussed by the North-South Ministerial Council.
As the Deputies know, this is a decision that rests with central government in London in the United Kingdom. Arising from the representations and discussions to date, approximately 7 km of roads that criss-cross the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic have been exempted from the levy. However, recent correspondence from the UK Minister has indicated that he is not inclined to make provision for the exemption of further Northern Ireland roads from the levy.
While it is accepted that the UK Government is within its rights under EU legislation to introduce the levy, the Irish Government is unhappy with the UK authorities' position on the exemption of the A5. I will request that they reconsider this decision. For a successful resolution to this issue, we need unity of purpose between the Irish Government and the Northern Irish Executive. In that regard, I am supported by my colleague in the Northern Ireland Executive, Minister Mark Durkan. However, I was disappointed by the partisan approach taken by some other parties in the Northern Irish Assembly when this was debated there on Monday. As a result of that, the Northern Ireland Assembly voted against our desired position on this matter. The contributions in the debate would drive one to distraction in many ways. The speakers were more concerned with the forthcoming elections than ensuring all-party support to get the A5 exempted.
A working group has been established to examine the feasibility of introducing a similar pay-as-you-go road tax scheme for HGVs in Ireland. There is precedence in Europe with the Eurovignette for a common road charging regime to be established, where only one charge is applied but where payers can use a number of different countries' roads. We should look to this example and seek to establish a common regime between Britain and Ireland. While there are a large number of issues surrounding this and while it requires the support of the British Government, a common regime may have merit given our circumstances. Therefore, my officials have begun tentative discussions with their British counterparts on this potential long-term solution. A common regime would be of benefit to hauliers in the North and South, and it would also result in benefits between Britain and Ireland, as opposed to two different regimes that would impose significant regulatory burdens on hauliers.
I thank the Minister for the reply. I realise he is trying to improve matters. Many industries in this State, including the haulage industry, are experiencing difficult times. When the hotels and restaurants were in real trouble, the Government's initiative on VAT was strong, good and very helpful. It was economically beneficial in both directions.
The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government is responsible for the vehicle road tax. Given that the rate of road tax for hauliers in Ireland is probably one of the highest in Europe and that the industry is in a difficult position, has there been any correspondence between the Minister and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government on the issue?
Yes, there has. There is now a working group including the two Departments and the Department of Finance. As the Deputy rightly says, road tax for hauliers in Ireland is very high. On the flipside, however, diesel prices are lower than in the North and Britain. In addition, there is a fuel rebate here. All these factors need to be taken in the round. Essentially, that is what we are trying to do through the initiatives of my Department, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Department of Finance and others. We are trying to examine the whole suite of charges that affect hauliers, including road tax, fuel levies, fuel rebates and road charging, with a view to determining what we can do to make sense of it all so we will not end up with a tax regime that disadvantages Irish-based hauliers. We have been very successful in making Ireland tax competitive, particularly for multinationals and others. We want to do something similar when it comes to haulage but it has to add up, obviously.
I welcome the Minister's concluding points on closer scrutiny of all taxes and levies, including fuel rebates and levies. From speaking to many of the hauliers within the industry, I understand they will be examining these matters very closely in the context of the next budget. Taxation presents a challenge we need to address
I thank the Minister for the update on the recent North-South Ministerial Council meeting. I was monitoring the debate in Stormont closely. Unfortunately, political footballs are being thrown all over Stormont on this issue. It is a travesty, to say the least, because this issue has been very much to the fore in the minds of hauliers in my county for a long period. In fairness to the hauliers, they have been trying to work with Stormont and Dublin. Their representatives had a meeting with the Minister, Deputy Leo Varadkar, which they found very helpful. They are aware of the work the Minister is doing.
I cannot understand why Sinn Féin, which is in government in Northern Ireland, has not been more proactive on this issue. It affects so many people, including hauliers, and the industry. The legislation at issue is UK legislation, from Westminster. In fairness to the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, he has been proactive and has been working with his counterparts in the North, but I believe we need serious engagement on the part of Sinn Féin in government in Northern Ireland.
Sinn Féin has ultimate responsibility because it is the secondary legislation that will ultimately be enforced. As has been pointed out by the Minister, Mark H. Durkan, that subordinate legislation is being not being enforced these days because the subordinate legislation is not in place. I ask Sinn Féin to be more proactive in government in Northern Ireland on this matter.
I have much sympathy with Deputy McHugh's remarks. We would like to see Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland taking the same view on this. It would be very helpful for me if the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly went to London and said that they want the A5 to be exempted, that the taxpayers are going to pay for a chunk and that they want trade between Donegal and the Border counties in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, the Assembly voted against that. The reason given by many Unionist members was that they felt that Sinn Féin in particular played a very partisan role in this. I will quote one of the people involved in the debate, Mrs. Pam Cameron MLA, who is a DUP representative. She said: "I am glad to be able to speak on this issue this afternoon. I was initially broadly in support of the motion, but given the proposer's remarks I am afraid that I simply cannot support it." The entire approach taken by Mr. Phil Flanagan MLA, who is the Sinn Féin proposer of the motion, put off many people in Northern Ireland who might have supported it. This has really harmed Irish hauliers.
It is ironic that Deputy McHugh says that Sinn Féin is not doing enough when the Minister says that Sinn Féin brought forward the motion. We have certainly been fighting this corner, have made representations and have brought this motion before the Assembly. We have made representations directly to Westminster on a number of occasions.
One of the major problems we have is that with this in place, many road hauliers will take their business North. Are we able to calculate the damage that will be done? Damage will certainly be done because of the tax here which ranges from €3,500 to €4,000. In comparison, the tax in the North is £640. This area must be looked at. We must look at a broad range of areas in terms of taxes. The Minister mentioned that he might look at this area.
Does the Deputy have a question?
Some areas are exempted. We have 7 km. Why can we not go the extra mile and put on extra pressure? If Secretary of State Villiers can make decisions like this, surely we can keep putting more pressure on and making representations. This is going against the Good Friday Agreement in terms of co-operation and we should keep putting pressure on and go to Europe.
We will keep putting pressure on. One of the solutions may involve adopting the same system as that in the UK. I do not think there is anything ironic about it. In fairness, Deputy Ellis is not the worst of them but this is just a classic example of the two Sinn Féins. If ever there was a party of partition, it is Sinn Féin, which takes different positions north and south of the Border. I will give five other simple examples. The local property tax, which Sinn Féin opposes down here, is three times higher in the North and Sinn Féin in government has increased it for four years in a row. Water charges are already part of domestic rates bills in Northern Ireland and Sinn Féin has only deferred direct charges in the North until 2016. Sinn Féin imposed a two-year pay freeze on public servants earning over £25,000. In respect of public expenditure, Sinn Féin signed up to a four-year budget slashing spending in Northern Ireland by 8%. The Minister for Education in Northern Ireland, who is a member of Sinn Féin, has closed 30 schools and will close more. If ever there was a partitionist party in this country, it is Sinn Féin.
If the Minister knew the job that we have been trying-----
We have a limited amount of time. I call Deputy Wallace.
Last Tuesday morning, the Minister issued a press statement saying that he had full confidence in the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter. In the process, he chose to misrepresent my position on a number of counts. He misrepresented me on discretion, as the former Minister repeatedly did for over a year. The Minister made out that I was portraying myself as a victim, which I never did. The kernel of the problem was that the former Minister abused his office. The Minister literally tried to de-legitimise my challenge to the former Minister for Justice and Equality by saying that the former Minister should be forgiven because it is over a year ago and by choosing to bring up the fact that my former company could not meet a VAT liability five years ago. The Minister used that to defend the former Minister for Justice and Equality. That said more about the Minister than it did about me. I was really disappointed in him because I have always respected him.
Does the Deputy have a question for the Minister?
This is a form of politics in which I thought the Minister had no interest.
We must group these questions. We are out of time. Does Deputy McHugh have another question?
I thought we were talking about the HGV levy.
We wandered away from it.
Everybody has wandered a bit.
Can I chat about anything?
No. Other issues have come up.
Deputy McHugh has the floor. Does the Deputy have a question?
I agree with the Minister. In fairness, Deputy Ellis is not the worst of them. The economic philosophy of money growing on trees is certainly not one with which I am familiar. In respect of what is not being done, I called on Martin McGuinness six weeks ago. He is Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. I have asked him before and will ask him again publicly to proactively engage with his British counterparts in respect of this issue. I do not think that is being done. It is not being pushed hard enough. One can say that pressure is being put on but I do not think it is happening because the proof is in the pudding. Lorry drivers, hauliers and companies in Donegal who are driving through the North are being told, wink and nod, that the levy is not being enforced. It is law in the UK. The secondary legislation is not in place yet and Minister Mark H. Durkan says that it is not being enforced, but it is still law. It creates a massive grey area of confusion for many hauliers. I commend the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport on his suggestion of a joint delegation from North and South. They should leave the political hats outside the room and go to Westminster. That is a good suggestion but it will need proactivity from the Northern end.
Deputy McHugh says he was not putting on a political hat but he never stopped talking about Sinn Féin. The Minister never stops talking about Sinn Féin. The Minister knows well that a large number of different things, be they education, school meals or household charges, are included in one single charge. They do not have myriad extra taxes that this Government has introduced. Unfortunately, this is what has happened. The Minister mentioned water charges. There are no water charges in the North. Perhaps he needs to read up on it. It is this Government that is introducing water charges.
Does the Deputy have a question?
Our people have made representations. Once again, I am telling the Minister that these charges involving €12 per trip are costing the industry a huge amount. We must look at helping the industry. If huge costs exist, some trucks will make several trips across the Border in certain areas and this will add up over the year. Is the Minister going to do something to alleviate that?
I know I have only a minute left and I have much to say. To clarify matters, the local property tax in the North is more than €950 for the average house. That does include water and bin charges but it has been increased every year for the past four years with Sinn Féin in government and it intends to bring in direct charges for water in 2016.
That is the truth. What Sinn Féin candidates are saying on the ground is not.
That is not the truth. There are many other issues.
In regard to Deputy Wallace, I did not issue a statement. I was asked a question by a journalist and I am not sure exactly which sections of that were played on the radio and which were not. However, I have on a number of occasions expressed my respect for Deputy Wallace in the stance he has taken in pursuing on the floor of this House the issue around penalty points. I believe he has done a good day's work and a good service in that regard, and I am going to repeat that again because I believe it is true. I am glad the Deputy agrees he is not a victim, which is important. In addition, I believe what Deputy Shatter did on "Prime Time" was wrong but I also believe that his apology should be accepted. I am not sure if Deputy Wallace has done that yet but I think he should. In regard to companies, I believe companies should pay their taxes and that directors and owners of companies have a responsibility in that regard. I cannot say otherwise.
On the substantive issue of hauliers, which is what this is supposed to be about, we are going to keep working on it. There are a number of different options for a solution but the shared objective of everyone in government is to make sure that we have a fair playing field for Irish hauliers when it comes to taxes and charges across the island and between Britain and Ireland.
On Question No. 6, Deputy Finian McGrath sends his apologies as he is attending the justice meeting.
