Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 18 October 2016
6. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to or conversed with the British Prime Minister or other members of the United Kingdom Government since the announcement by the British Prime Minister of the timescale for Brexit and the commitment by the UK Government to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to withdraw from the European Union by the end of March 2017. [29299/16]
Amharc ar fhreagra7. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he has had discussions with the Northern Ireland First Minister and deputy First Minister, the Scottish First Minister and Welsh First Minister concerning the announcement by the UK Prime Minister Teresa May of a timetable for Brexit and the commitment by the UK Government to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to withdraw from the European Union by the end of March 2017. [29300/16]
Amharc ar fhreagra8. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the way he and his Government plan to make Northern Ireland a special case in the context of Brexit; if he has discussed or written to Prime Minister May in relation to the plan; and if discussions have taken place with the Secretary of State in Northern Ireland. [30528/16]
Amharc ar fhreagra9. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the detail of any formal contacts he has had with the First Minister of Northern Ireland, Ms Arlene Foster, regarding the Government's proposed all-island civic forum on Brexit. [30751/16]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 9, inclusive, together.
I noted the comments of the UK Prime Minister, Ms May, on Article 50 on 2 November and I welcomed her clarification on the timing of Article 50.
Since then, the Government has reviewed action to date and has intensified its preparations. There is ongoing close political and official engagement, including with the British Government, Northern Ireland and the EU member states and institutions as well as through broadening dialogue with civic society. The week following Prime Minister May's announcement, the annual summit of Secretaries General with UK Permanent Secretaries took place in London.
This well established forum served as a valuable vehicle for discussion and exploration of Brexit implications, impacts and options, in addition to providing for consideration of the broad areas of co-operation under the joint work programme.
The Government also continues to work closely with the Northern Ireland Executive and the First and deputy First Minister through the North-South Ministerial Council. At the plenary meeting of the council in July, a set of ten specific actions was agreed to optimise North-South joint planning for Brexit, including a full audit of key North-South work programmes. I will meet with First Minister Arlene Foster and deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness at the November meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council when we will progress these actions. I will meet with Prime Minister May later this week in Brussels, at what will be her first European Council meeting. She is expected to provide an update on the timing of the UK’s triggering of Article 50 at that meeting. I understand that Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, is planning to visit Dublin soon and I hope to meet with her when that visit takes place. I will also meet with the Scottish First Minister and the Welsh First Minister again at the British-Irish Council meeting next month where we will continue our work on the implications of Brexit for all member administrations.
The invitations to the all island civic dialogue on 2 November are being issued today. This event will give a voice to the many organisations and individuals across the island of Ireland who are outside the political establishment and who wish to be heard on Brexit. To ensure the widest representation possible, invitations will be extended to a broad range of civic society groups, trade unions, business groups and non-governmental organisations. In addition to this, representatives from political parties on the island will be invited to attend, including the Democratic Unionist Party, DUP. It will primarily be a listening exercise to hear the voices of those who will be most affected by Brexit. Views expressed will be used to help inform the Government position on issues arising from the UK decision to leave the EU and the overall negotiation process. The Government will seek to ensure that future EU-UK and Ireland-UK negotiations give priority attention to the Northern Ireland dimension, including issues relating to the Border and EU funding. It is vital that the benefits of the peace process are safeguarded and built upon for future generations, in whatever arrangements are negotiated.
The continued stability of Northern Ireland remains a priority for this Government. It has been raised in bilateral discussions with Secretary of State Brokenshire at the British-Irish Association and, indeed, with our counterparts in other EU member states by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, and the Minister of State at that Department, Deputy Dara Murphy, and myself. The importance of protecting the peace process, and of Europe’s contribution to peace in Ireland, resonates strongly with those with whom we have spoken. We will continue to work through the North-South planning for Brexit through the work of the North-South Ministerial Council as I have outlined, and will continue to work with the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive as co-guarantors of the peace process. The civic society discussion which will take place on 2 November is one of a series that will take place in the ensuing months. It is not a one off, one day affair.
It is not in Standing Orders but in view of the fact that there are eight and a half minutes left in this slot, is it acceptable to the Taoiseach that he answer further questions? Is that acceptable to both Deputies? Agreed.
Does the Taoiseach agree that Brexit is the biggest challenge to face Ireland since the collapse of the banks and the collapse of employment in the country? If he agrees, does he also see that we need to intensify and deepen our preparations? Some weeks ago the Taoiseach, here in the Dáil Chamber, told me with some excitement in his voice that a senior member would be appointed to the cabinet of Michel Barnier, one of the key negotiators dealing with Brexit. I have been quite surprised not to have seen any mention of who is the senior appointee. I presume the person will be one of several people at cabinet level in the Commission, a former senior official of the Commission or a senior diplomat. Does the Taoiseach appreciate that, notwithstanding that all of the senior people in Brussels understand that Ireland is very much an independent and separate country, nonetheless, psychologically and culturally, they see us as being tied into the UK? In fact, many of them have difficulty understanding exactly how complex and difficult the Brexit situation is for us with the multiple dimensions of its impact on the Republic, particularly the issue of sterling. I read in the newspaper yesterday about somebody having a wedding in Donegal and already the cost of the wedding has risen from €20,000 to €23,000 owing to the fall in sterling.
In respect of Northern Ireland and the civic forum, has the Government determined that it will argue for the North to be a special case? We hear a lot of conversation about the North but we are not seeing any roadmap of how the Government proposes to deal with the North, particularly in the context of Mrs. May advocating on some days a hard Brexit and on other days, in respect of passporting financial services, indicating that she is open to a soft Brexit for the City of London as a region. These are critical issues on which we need to hear the Government’s view. Where is this member of Mr. Barnier’s team and who is that person? Mr. Verhofstadt has a very senior position as well. Are we going to have a senior Irish person? While I know this is fraught with difficulties, there should also be a senior person from the North of Ireland and from Scotland but that is the matter for the Scottish executive. In terms of the island of Ireland, we need the maximum input in order to allay the greatest threat to the Irish economy since the collapse of the banks and of the construction industry in 2007 and 2008.
I concur with the Deputy that this is without question the most significant challenge to face the country in many a day because the impact will not be transient but long term. I hear from the Taoiseach’s reply that there is a close relationship with the British Government but I have to question to what degree there is close engagement between the two Governments because of what is emanating from the British Prime Minister.
I welcome the civic forum. I suggested it at our meetings and think it is a very good idea to listen to civic dialogue on an all island basis. Nonetheless, Prime Minister May’s decision to exclude Northern Ireland from permanent membership of the cabinet group overseeing Brexit should cause real concern and raise immediate warning signals. The group has 12 permanent members, including the Tory party chairman, but the Northern Ireland Secretary of State is simply to be called in from time to time. It is clearly more important for the Tories to manage their internal affairs than to follow up on the commitment to give top priority to the huge impact of Brexit on the island of Ireland.
What specific steps have been taken to follow up on the promise of close co-operation with us in the Brexit negotiations? As we speak, the cabinet sub-committee is considering the idea of work permits for non-British citizens. That raises the prospect that anyone going from Ireland to Britain to work in the foreseeable future will have to go through a work permit regime. Scotland is looking for a halfway house between membership of the European Union and of the UK. That may very well trigger a Scottish independence referendum if the choice is a hard Brexit versus a soft one. That is a very real concern. It is also being suggested that Britain may try to have a deal with Europe on a sectoral or geographic region basis. The Mayor of London has been very clear about asking whether it is possible for London to have a separate arrangement with the European Union.
Much of that is fantasy. What is of major concern is the statements made by Ministers and the Prime Minister at the Tory party conference because that all speaks to a hard Brexit and a World Trade Organization, WTO, type trade deal, which would mean tariffs on Irish beef and many other products going into Britain, and would be the worst possible scenario that could unfold.
I put it to the Taoiseach that all the language we are hearing is of the wishful kind such as "We all want a soft Brexit" or "We do not want any hard borders between the North and the Republic". Obviously, we do not want the latter but saying it is not enough. We are saying that things will work out on the night but, increasingly, we are getting the wrong story in the sense of what is coming out of Britain. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is now being cornered and identified by the Brexiteers as someone who is asking too many awkward questions, that he is not pro-Brexit, etc.
We need to up our game in terms of our relationship with the British Government and I put it to the Taoiseach that he needs to seek a formal summit meeting with the British Prime Minister to lay on the line our perspective on it and to try to ascertain the real story in terms of the island of Ireland and Brexit, and what the British Government intends to do in terms of the European Union.
The Taoiseach has 30 seconds, and 30 seconds only.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle gives me these impossible tasks.
It is Standing Orders.
How am I to respond to the Brexit argument in 30 seconds? There is no question that this issue, and not just the banking collapse, is one of the major political questions of the past 50 years-----
The economic war in the 1930s.
-----and it has implications not just for Ireland but globally. Mr. Barnier was appointed on 1 October. He has not appointed his team yet. I met him here last week. I have known him for quite a number of years from the political parties we represent and from his service both as a Commissioner and as French Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. He was very helpful to Ireland. He has agreed to work very closely with us. I will chair these meetings in the sense of being able to call in any of our Ministers at Cabinet level, Ministers of State or whomever to give that the status it deserves. I made the point to Mr. Barnier that Ireland needs a representative on his task force. My understanding from the Commission is that these will not all be high-level people. Mr. Barnier will conduct the proceedings himself in the main way and will report directly to the European Council. Deputy Burton should know that he made the point that he will not do anything unless it has the full support of the European Council because that is where the political imprimatur lies. That was on my suggestion at the European Council. The Heads of Government will make the political decisions here.
I am sorry. The time has been exceeded but the questions coming up are important.
Ah, go on. Gabh mo leithscéal. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle might give me another 30 seconds. With regard to the North-South civic forum-----
I am too generous.
-----we need clarity, as Deputies Martin, Adams and Burton pointed out. Secretary of State Davis, Secretary of State Fox and Secretary of State Johnson have made different comments and have had to be slapped down, reined in or had their remarks commented upon in respect of what the Prime Minister has said. We know that politics are politics, and the Conservative Party had to hear the Prime Minister make her case, but we need clarity as to what we want, which is why I said to Deputy Adams earlier that we will not have any particular circumstances made available to Northern Ireland unless we know our objective. If that objective is moving from day to day, either from a Northern Ireland or a British point of view, we may get further clarification on Thursday in Brussels-----
-----and I hope we do.
Finally, in respect of Deputy Martin's question, it is true that we have had comments about hard borders, soft borders and sector areas to be cherry-picked out of Brussels. These are all moving targets and until such time as the British Government has drilled down through all the arguments and made its case as to what it is seeking, it is very difficult for us to negotiate with certainty on what we want in terms of our citizens, our economy, our relations with Northern Ireland, no return to a hard border, and the protection of the common travel area. On the last two points, the Prime Minister was clear. We do not want and will not tolerate a return to a hard border and we do not want any diminution of the common travel area, which has been in place since 1922.
