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Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 18 April 2018

Wednesday, 18 April 2018

Ceisteanna (9)

Joan Burton

Ceist:

9. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he has held recent meetings with church leaders and faith communities. [15156/18]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (10 píosaí cainte)

On 31 August last, I held a formal meeting under the structured dialogue process with representatives of the Catholic Church, led by Archbishop Eamon Martin. I was accompanied at the meeting by the then Tánaiste and Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation and by the Ministers for Education and Skills, Health, Transport, Tourism and Sport, and Employment Affairs and Social Protection. A wide-ranging discussion took place on a range of important national and international issues, including the World Meeting of Families which will take place in Dublin in August 2018, the possibility of a visit to Ireland by the Pope, which has since been confirmed, education issues such as enrolment policies, the eighth amendment to the Constitution, Northern Ireland, overseas development aid, and social and justice issues. I also received a courtesy call from Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, as is traditional around Christmas time and the New Year.

I met representatives of the Church of Ireland and the Presbyterian and Methodist churches on 22 January 2018. I was accompanied by the Ministers for Justice and Equality, Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Education and Skills, Health, Transport, Tourism and Sport, and the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. This was the second in a series of meetings that I will be holding with dialogue partners. We discussed important social and economic issues facing society, including Brexit, education issues and the eighth amendment to the Constitution, as well as international issues.

Churches and faith communities play an important role in Irish life and I think it is very beneficial that Government should engage with them in a structured way. Some of the issues we discussed at these meetings were challenging. They are issues on which people have deeply held views and which are matters of conscience. Our discussions were valuable, not just because they dealt with important issues but particularly because they were conducted in an atmosphere of respect for the views of others, where everyone sought to be constructive.

I also had the opportunity to attend a Passover seder on Good Friday in the home of Maurice Cohen, the head of the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland, and discussed similar matters with him and his people.

I thank the Taoiseach for the update and commend him on participating in the Passover seder. It was a good initiative. Is a formal process in place for the Department of the Taoiseach to engage with church leaders and faith communities? How is it constructed and organised? Is it done by Civil Service staff or political staff? Will the Taoiseach give us any more detail on the programme for the visit of His Holiness, the Pope? Do we know for how long the visit will take place? Do we have the exact locations which the Pope will visit? Has any view been expressed by Government to the Holy See on the desirability of a visit to Border regions or to Northern Ireland?

I raised the question of a visit by the Pontiff to the North of Ireland with the Taoiseach on a previous occasion. I raise it again, mindful of the fact that it is for the Pope and the Vatican to set the parameters of his activity. I do not wish to be intrusive but wish to reflect a very wide appetite North of the Border for the Pontiff to visit.

Encounters between faith communities and Government are very valuable. They have to be held in a spirit that is respectful and which recognises the delineation between churches, faith and theology on one hand and the State, with its obligations to support and respect all citizens, on the other.

Was the forthcoming referendum on the issue of the eighth amendment among the sensitive issues discussed by the Taoiseach with faith leaders? In the context of the World Meeting of Families, did family diversity, in Irish society and internationally, arise?

The warm welcome which other faiths have given to the Pope's forthcoming visit is a great testament to the strength of interfaith relations at the moment and it is particularly welcome that this has extended beyond Christian churches. Given the anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, it is worth remembering the statements of the late Pope John Paul II when he attacked sectarianism during his visit in 1979. In Drogheda, he said to the illegitimate armies who were then waging war: "On my knees I beg you to turn away from the path of violence and return to the ways of peace." That was a very important moment in building trust between religions in the fight for peace and it was a key dynamic in the victory of democracy and the ultimate end of violence, although it took a long while for a number of men of violence to heed his words. In this spirit, I hope our Government will seek to ensure that there is space in the Pope's itinerary to reaffirm the anti-sectarian sentiments with which he is so strongly associated and to encourage the work of different faith leaders here on this very point.

The structured dialogue with churches and faith communities is arranged and organised by civil servants.

It is something that my forebear as Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, did also. I decided to continue to do it.

I believe former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern initiated the process.

That may well be the case.

He did certain things.

The time left is limited. We will not have any argument about it.

The former Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, attached a lot of value to it. I attended some of the meetings as a Minister and I decided I would continue with the practice when I became Taoiseach. I have no doubt that previous taoisigh, including Mr. Bertie Ahern, saw value in it also. We generally meet in round-table format, with many Ministers around the table and many representatives from the church. The latter are mostly clergymen but also include laity. On some issues, we agree to disagree, such as on the eighth amendment. Obviously, the Catholic Church gave us a very clear position on that. We agreed to disagree on it. The Protestant churches had diverse opinions. Some of them were open to removing the eighth amendment from our Constitution but were not well disposed towards the Government's legislative proposals, for example. Each church will make its own statement on that in due course, if it has not done so already. We have agreed to follow up on a few issues on a bilateral basis. We agreed to follow up on some of the education issues with the faith communities and the Department of Education and Skills. I envisage meeting each of the major faith groups once per year in round-table format, with bilateral discussions happening in the interim at ministerial level.

With regard to the papal visit, the primary focus will be to attend the World Meeting of Families. The Pope will attend the Festival of Families event in Croke Park and will be the chief celebrant at a mass in the Phoenix Park, which will include the World Meeting of Families. The programme will also include those elements that are normal for the visit of a Head of State — for example, a brief engagement with the Taoiseach and the President. In addition, there will be a number of Church-related projects.

As I mentioned, the full programme details outlining where the Pope will visit have not yet been confirmed. The State's involvement, as appropriate regarding an official visit by a Head of State, will be similar to its involvement in previous high-profile visits to Ireland, such as that of Queen Elizabeth of England. In particular, it will support those events where the public will be in attendance in large number, taking on board all the health and safety requirements in addition to the security measures to which such a visit gives rise. The costs associated with the visit will be similar to those of previous official visits by a Head of State. The visit must be seen in terms of its historic nature - the first in 40 years by a pontiff - and in terms of the opportunities it presents as regards announcing Ireland's visibility and international reputation.

With regard to the programme for the papal visit, I am very much aware that this is primarily a pastoral visit. I do not believe it is the role of the Government to tell Pope Francis what he should or should not do, whom he should or should not meet, or what he should or should not visit. We have said, however, that we would like to facilitate, if possible, a visit to Northern Ireland. We suggest it would be appropriate to meet some of the victims and survivors of clerical abuse or abuse by State and Church authorities. In addition, we have expressed our view as a Government that families should be respected and seen in their diversity. There are families of all different shapes and forms, whether they include children being brought up by grandparents, same-sex couples with children, or lone-parent families. We have expressed our view as a State that this is how we see the family. That view has been put across to the Church authorities. Having said that, however, we fully respect the separation between church and state. Religious freedom applies to this also.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
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