Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 3 May 2018
6. Deputy John Curran asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if the restructuring of MABS and CIS will be reviewed; if she is satisfied that the new structure of regional boards represents the best way forward in terms of service delivery to local communities and good governance; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [19167/18]
Amharc ar fhreagraThis question is in the name of Deputy John Curran but he has given permission to Deputy O'Dea to put it to the Minister. I presume that is in order.
I apologise for the absence of my colleague, Deputy Curran. As the Acting Chairman knows, Deputy Curran is Chairman of the Joint Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, which is sitting now, at the same time as questions on social protection in the Dáil. Why the two have clashed, I do not know. The question is self-explanatory.
I thank Deputy O'Dea, and I thank Deputy Curran for the question.
The executive of the Citizens Information Board, CIB, is in the process of implementing the decision of the board to reorganise the governance arrangements of the 93 individual local company boards, comprising 42 citizens information services and 51 Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, companies, to create a new regionally based 16-company model comprising eight citizens information services and eight MABS companies. The CIB is not planning to review the decision of the statutorily appointed board.
The aim of the change is to improve the effectiveness of the control environment, financial management and governance of the CIS and MABS networks, which are 100% State funded. The change is about improving the governance framework, focusing on front-line service delivery to citizens, improving the consistency and quality of service delivery and, where possible, extending services for those who need them. We all know there are thousands of unfortunate people who use this valuable service and continue to need it.
I believe I stated on previous occasions that I am very satisfied that the board of CIB made its important decision of February 2017 in the best interest of the citizens it serves.
The first phase of the implementation process has seen the establishment of six new companies, namely three citizens information services and three MABS companies, in south Dublin, in north Leinster, comprising Longford, Louth, Meath, Westmeath and Kildare, and in south Munster, comprising Cork and Kerry.
All staff, assets and liabilities of the 38 local companies involved in this phase have been transferred to the six new companies. There has been no change to service delivery and no reduction in staffing, nor has there been, or will there be any diminution of services for clients.
The remaining 55 companies will transfer into the five new citizens information services and five new MABS companies as they are established, and it is envisaged that the next phase of transfer will be completed before the end of 2018. I hope this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
As the Minister will be aware, among the volunteers, people at the coalface or the people providing the service there is still widespread opposition to this change. People are in constant contact with us about it. The Minister will also be aware that the Dáil voted by a majority of two to one against this. The Joint Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, which includes a number of Members on the Government side, voted unanimously against what is being done.
I do not want to rehash all the arguments we engaged in but the Minister said in the course of various debates on the matter that what was preventing her from interfering in any way with the decision of the CIB was the advice of the Attorney General that she did not have the power to do so. Is that the only reason she could not intervene? If she had had the power, would she have intervened to stop this process?
The advice from the Attorney General is that I do not have the power, and neither would the Deputy if he were the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection. I am quite happy to take the advice. To answer that Deputy's question, the advice is not the only reason. I have said before and say again for the record that I am satisfied the board of the CIB, which made its important decision in February 2017, did so in the best interest of the citizens it serves. The CIB established an advisory group to assist with the transition to the new governance models. Information sessions have been held for the chairpersons of the local services, providing opportunities for them to seek clarification on the process of transfers to the new regional companies and the winding up of the existing companies.
The CIB has assured me, as it has assured all its clients, members and the Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, that there will be no job losses, diminution of existing services or closures of services. Most important, there will be no disruption to services. The rationale for CIB's decision is to improve governance arrangements in accordance with the code of practice on the governance of State bodies and to meet the requirements of the Comptroller and Auditor General, which it absolutely has to meet.
The six new regional companies were established on 16 April 2018, in north Leinster, south Munster and south Dublin. The recruitment of the directors for these new regional companies is complete. Approximately half of the positions have been filled by applicants who served as local company board members. Regional managers have also been appointed. Two of the appointees were formerly employed by MABS companies.
Unite, the union, has confirmed to me that its members in MABS companies had voted in favour of the transfer in their recent ballot. SIPTU had previously confirmed the same for all its members in citizens information services. I cannot stress enough how thorough the process has been. One will never make 100% of people happy but the vast majority of people are happy.
The Minister says there have not been any job losses. Has there been any loss of volunteers? Is she happy that, under the new structure, both schemes will attract the same number of volunteers as heretofore? All the information coming to me suggests the precise opposite.
Could the Minister confirm the cost structure of the new organisation? Will it enable the State to provide the same service more efficiently and cheaply or will it cost more?
Volunteers come and go in all organisations so one could not state one has lost volunteers for the specific reason outlined. I would be very surprised if the reasons people ebb and flow between voluntary and charitable organisations were collated.
I had the privilege of speaking to probably 700 volunteers in Kilmainham last year. It is an annual day to reward, respect and congratulate the volunteers of CIB and MABS from around the country. They come to the event, are entertained and enjoy each other's company while having some food and drink. We socialise with them and thank them for volunteering. Not one person told me that day that he or she was unhappy. The volunteers were in high spirits. They were enjoying themselves and were very appreciative of the management of CIB in recognising the value of their contribution.
To answer the Deputy's question, I hope to increase, not decrease, the funding. I am not seeking to take money away from the CIB.
It will cost more to provide the same service.
We have increased funding for it this year so it can provide valuable services to our deaf community. If I can find more money to provide more services to the community, through such a well-run, well-organised and well-governed State body, that is what I will do. I have every confidence in the management and new structure of this organisation.
