Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 8 May 2018
31. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government when the review of income eligibility limits for social housing will be finalised and published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19748/18]
Amharc ar fhreagra63. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government his plans to review and increase the income limits for eligibility for social housing; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19869/18]
Amharc ar fhreagraFor a number of years I have been raising, with the Minister, his predecessor and the Minister of State, the urgent need to increase the income eligibility limits for social housing. In my constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, we are in the lowest zone in the country whereby the income limit for a single person is €25,000 and for a couple is €30,000. It is a 40% differential between that and most other counties throughout the country. We are condemning people to not being able to avail of social housing and at the same time those people have no chance whatsoever of being able to get a mortgage to buy their own home. I have repeatedly asked at Question Time that the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government finalise the review, increase the eligibility limits to a realistic level and to get movement on this issue without further delay.
Are these questions grouped?
It is grouped with No. 63.
With which one?
It is No. 63.
It is the first questioner of the group who has 30 seconds to introduce them. Go ahead.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 31 and 63 together.
The social housing assessment regulations 2011 prescribe maximum net income limits for each local authority, in different bands according to the area, with income being defined and assessed according to a standard household means policy.
The income bands and the authority area assigned to each band were based on an assessment of the income needed to provide for a household's basic needs, plus a comparative analysis of the local rental cost of housing accommodation across the country. It is important to note that the limits introduced at that time also reflected a blanket increase of €5,000 introduced prior to the new system coming into operation, in order to broaden the base from which social housing tenants are drawn, both promoting sustainable communities and providing a degree of future-proofing. I am conscious that seven years have passed since the review.
As part of the broader social housing reform agenda, a review of income eligibility for social housing supports has commenced. I acknowledge that Deputy Brendan Smith and others have raised this matter repeatedly here. It is an issue we highlighted in Rebuilding Ireland. We recognise the importance of that too. The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and I have made it clear that this review is happening. The Housing Agency should have the report and its recommendations with us in the summer, possibly late summer. When we have that we will be able to make the final decisions. I accept it is dragging on. The Housing Agency is involved in many other policy initiatives with our Department. This is taking longer than we all hoped it would. It is an area being highlighted and on which we also want work to be done. We will have an update for the Deputy and the results will be published during the summer.
It is most disappointing this review is taking so long. I have told the Taoiseach, the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and the Minister of State himself in this Chamber that were the departmental officials to ring around to a few good housing officers in the local authorities, the review could be done within an hour. Any of us who make representations meet people on a weekly basis who cannot qualify for a council house. They do not have a hope of getting a mortgage. Those people are being condemned to a life of living in rented accommodation. It is surely within the competence of the Department to raise these limits to a realistic level.
The Minister of State observed that one of the factors in deciding the eligibility limits and the cut-off point was rental cost. Rental costs have changed dramatically in the past year to 18 months. The Minister of State's home area neighbours my own county. He knows what costs are like in Mullagh, Virginia, Ballyjamesduff, Bailieborough and across to Kingscourt. That is just in east Cavan alone. It is similar in Monaghan. Will the Minister of State ask the Department to try to bring forward that review well before the summer? I was told it would be published "shortly" two years ago. I was told it would be "in the near future" six months ago. Now, we are being told it will be the summer again. It is far too tardy a response to this issue. It needs to be dealt with before we continue to condemn a generation of people to living in rented accommodation.
I acknowledge that Deputy Brendan Smith has raised this quite often. The last time we discussed this, I did say that we hoped to have the report by June. I hope it will not be much longer than that before we have it. To be clear, a ring around will answer some of the questions. We know from our own analysis with the Residential Tenancies Board, RTB, what the rent increases are. We know there is pressure on the rental sector.
We are looking at four areas under this review. The Housing Agency is doing this work on behalf of the Department. It will be similar to what happened in 2011 and similar criteria will be looked at. These include the current income bands to see if they reflect the cost of providing suitable accommodation in the private sector. If they do not, then the question arises as to what should the appropriate thresholds be. That is a judgment call that must be based on evidence and on research. It cannot be just for me, the Deputy or the Minister to pick on a whim. That is also what the Housing Agency is analysing. It is also looking to see if we will continue with a regional banded approach to eligibility for social housing support. That is an important issue because the Deputy highlighted himself the differences in the different bands in respect of our native counties and other counties. We have asked the Housing Agency to analyse that and bring forward a suggestion on that too. Finally, we have asked the agency to look at the feasibility of introducing a form of transfer system that would allow social housing applicants to move across local authority areas while keeping their time on the list.
That is an issue that has been asked about repeatedly over the last year by councillors and our own colleagues. The review has a few areas that will inform policy changes. It is important that we get that information gathered correctly and that we make policy changes based on that as well. In the past couple of months, we have seen what can happen with local authorities interpreting information differently. We want to be very clear on this. We will have this review on our desks in the next couple of months and then we will be able to make decisions based on that. It is taking longer than any of us wanted. It is important we get the work finished.
We cannot have any further delay on this. It is compounding the already multiple injustices of the current housing crisis. Every single week, working people come into my office - I am sure it is happening everywhere else - who are being cut off housing lists. They may have been on those lists for ten years or 15 years. Then they are just gone because they do a bit of overtime or get a slight pay increase. They are cut off the list. That is not acceptable. Now, they are not even on a list where they will not get a house. They have no housing support available. It is not just that they will be stuck in rented accommodation. In my area, they cannot get the rented accommodation. They cannot afford it.
It means working people - bus drivers and people on average wages - are being forced into homelessness and simultaneously off the housing list, or not being allowed on the housing list in the first place. Two months is just not good enough. What is the Minister of State going to do for the family that came into me this week, that - because there was a bit of overtime - has lost ten years on the housing list? The decision was fought and the council said it would put the family back on the list but the ten years were lost. That was because of a bit of overtime. This is bonkers. It is completely unfair. For years, social housing was about ordinary working people who could not afford mortgages or could not afford the private rented sector. They are now being excluded in large numbers and thrown off housing lists. What is the Minister of State going to do about it?
I would be surprised if someone was taken off a list for ten years because of a bit of overtime. The story might not add up. We will check that.
It is absolutely true.
I am happy to look at it with the Deputy. I would be surprised.
We had a discussion about overtime earlier, and how that is judged. To be clear, the reason for the review of the guidelines and the establishment of a national standard was because there was a different policy in every local authority prior to that. There were different income limits, gross or net, different allowances for overtime and different allowances for child benefit. A fair system was not administered across the board, so we made sure that was introduced. There is now a fair system. We agreed that it had to be reviewed, and that is happening. In the meantime, there are other supports available to help people who are over that income level. We had a discussion earlier about the Rebuilding Ireland home loan, which is working quite well; almost 500 applications for it have been received. It is a good scheme to help people whose income puts them above the social housing limits. Other schemes exist which seek to deal with the pressure zones in certain areas. We have provided LIHAF funding and we are working with the private sector to bring forward affordable housing. An affordable housing policy is in place throughout the system and every local authority has been asked to bring forward proposals on that issue, and have been asked to manage land for that purpose. Money has been made available by the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Murphy, so that such land can be opened up and serviced. A range of initiatives have been put in place; I have only touched on a few.
We recognise, as all Deputies in this House recognise, that the income limits need to be looked at and adjusted. The adjustments will be based on evidence and science, as they were before. The Housing Agency is doing that work for us and gathering the required information. It will make recommendations to the Minister, and the changes will be made in the summer. That is where we are now. If I could click my fingers and have the work done more quickly, I would do it, but it is important that it is done correctly.
If the Minister of State is telling me that he can fix the case I mentioned, I will be very happy. I am telling the Minister of State that a person who did some overtime was taken off the list, and then after appealing and fighting the decision the family was told the appeal was not going to be accepted but they could reapply. Once that was done, the family lost their ten years on the list and they are back at the bottom of the list because of the overtime. That is completely unacceptable. If the Minister of State can sort that out, I would be very happy.
I had a case where a working person has refused a €10,000 a year increase in pay from their employer because they would be off the housing list if they took it. Housing in my constituency would be completely unaffordable to that person. That person is actually refusing pay increases. The limits have not increased since 2011. It is ridiculous. Wages are rising at the moment, but they are not rising to a level where people can afford to buy a house. However, they are rising to the extent that people are now above the permitted limits. The housing list is being culled of people who have no other alternatives. It makes a mockery of social mix, because what is happening is that people who traditionally benefited from council housing are being taken off the list, meaning that only people on the very lowest incomes are eligible for social housing. Where is the social mix in that? These limits have to be raised urgently, and the Minister of State has to do something about people who are removed from the list because of small increases.
The Deputy should not misquote me. I did not say that I could sort it out, rather that I doubt the story that someone lost their-----
I am telling the Minister that it is the case
I said that I would check out the story. I doubt that someone lost their ten year history over working a little bit of overtime. I am doubting how the story was portrayed in the House.
Is the Minister of State doubting that it could happen?
If I am wrong, then so be it. I am happy to check out the story.
To allow for social housing mix, there are a range of schemes which blend social, affordable and private housing on State-owned lands. There are plans afoot to provide enough land to build 50,000 houses, taking the mix of social, private and affordable houses into account. People will benefit from that. In addition, to allow for that mix, a blanket increase of €5,000 above the limits has been recommended. I am aware that is quite low in today's terms, and that is why the Government has agreed to look at that criteria. It will be based on evidence brought forward. We want that mix, and we want to encourage people to bring forward housing schemes. We do not want housing schemes that would mean that people would turn down jobs or the chance of increasing their income. That is why the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme was introduced in the first place. It recognised the ability of people to get a job and to earn income. The Deputy does not like that scheme either, but it works very well and reflects the ability of people to work and earn income. That is what it is there for, and we see it every day of the week.
I previously raised the fact that the family income supplement payment is factored into a person's income. By definition, if a person is eligible for family income supplement, it means that his or her income is not sufficient to sustain a family. That supplemental money was being factored in and meant that people were no longer eligible to stay on the social housing list.
As Deputy Boyd Barrett said, one of the cornerstones of social housing policy in this country going back many decades was to have a mix of people in the same areas, including people depending on welfare payments and those in employment. If the policy continues as it currently stands, nobody who has a job will be eligible to qualify for a local authority house. That would be a retrograde step for this country in every respect. Can the Minister of State give us a commitment that he will tell his Department officials and the other agencies involved in this review that he wants to bring this report back to the Dáil before the middle of July? It could go on until the autumn or until next year, given how the matter has been dealt with at official level so far. Can the Minister of State commit to that, and tell the officials and other agencies that he has committed to Dáil Éireann that this will be case, and that he wants it to be finalised with a new and realistic scheme in place before the middle of July?
We are trying to ensure that the housing scheme is brought forward, using State-owned lands to deliver housing to the public through social and affordable schemes and in conjunction with the private sector. I do not believe that social housing policy in the past brought forward projects that provided that mix. I look at the consequences of that in many places where very large scale social housing developments were brought forward without a mix. I am not convinced that it is the case that the issue was dealt with correctly. We are trying-----
In my own constituency, there is a good mix.
-----to change that now to ensure it is done correctly through the clever use of State land, as well as using State finances. Guidelines were issued in the first instance because we had to make sure that all interventions target the most needy. That is how taxpayers' money is best used, and that is why we have the schemes that exist and why we set a national standard. The review, carried out a number of years ago, occurred because national criteria were not implemented and different standards applied in every local authority. We are trying to address the housing difficulties across the country and bring in a standard approach, based on systems and process which has not been in place hitherto. That is part of the repair work we are doing. The Department will then be in a position to fix and address the housing problem across every sector for the years ahead.
