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Health Services Staff Remuneration

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 5 December 2018

Wednesday, 5 December 2018

Ceisteanna (41, 63, 85)

Pearse Doherty

Ceist:

41. Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Health when pay will be restored for section 39 workers; and the full cost of this measure. [49020/18]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Joan Burton

Ceist:

63. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Minister for Health if he has been in consultation with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on the outcome of the audit of pay restoration for section 39 workers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43835/18]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Thomas P. Broughan

Ceist:

85. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Health the status of the restoration of pay for section 39 organisations; if the necessary funds have been allocated to his Department; if not, the timeframe for payments to be restored; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48839/18]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)

Cathain a bheidh pá oibrithe in eagraíochtaí section 39 curtha ar ais mar a bhí sé? When will pay be restored for section 39 workers and what will be the full cost of this measure? This issue has been discussed at length by my party colleague, Deputy Louise O'Reilly, my party leader, Deputy McDonald, and others. It is an issue of equality, in particular, for workers who had their pay cut at the same time as public servants but who did not have it restored at the same pace, if at all. It is also an issue about the delivery of services which, in some cases, are becoming unsustainable owing to the lack of funding.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 41, 63 and 85 together.

I thank the Deputy for his question and acknowledge the fact that he has raised this matter on a number of occasions. He will be aware that in February an agreement was reached at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, between my Department, the HSE and health sector trade unions on a process aimed at resolving the pay restoration issue for staff employed by section 39 bodies in 50 pilot organisations. The 50 organisations included were agreed to at the WRC by all parties, including the unions.

I asked the HSE to engage with the section 39 organisations to establish the facts which varied from organisation to organisation in regard to what cuts had been applied and how and when they had been implemented. The HSE has completed the first phase of its work on the agencies identified as part of the WRC process. This exercise has shown that, of the agencies which returned data, a majority applied pay reductions of some form. It also shows that some agencies made provision for some form of pay restoration between 2016 and 2018.

Following constructive engagement, with the assistance of the WRC which I thank for its work, an agreement was reached on 2 October between all parties. Pay restoration will commence, with an annual pay increase of up to €1,000, in April 2019 for those employed by the 50 organisations involved in the pilot programme. Any outstanding balance will be paid in two equal amounts in 2020 and 2021. The cost of this phase of pay restoration will be €7.7 million.

The HSE is undertaking a validation exercise in respect of those 50 pilot organisations and their funding requirements to ensure pay restoration. Further information was requested from them in November and the returns are either being assessed by the HSE or, in some cases, still being worked on by the organisations. I urge those organisations to provide the necessary information as a matter of urgency.

In respect of the organisations which did not form part of this phase, it is recognised that some of them will also have pay restoration issues and a process of engagement to address the issue will commence in 2019. We have agreed a way forward between all parties. Phase one of restoration will proceed in 2019. We will then move on to the other organisations.

The Minister gave dates and some indication of the cost. He referred to a figure of €1,000 in the context of pay restoration in April 2019 and an overall figure of €7.7 million. When will pay for employees who had their pay cut in line with public sector employees be completely restored and when is the end point for all section 39 workers, given the need to provide clarity for them? The Minister might outline the incremental steps to be taken to achieving this. It is clear that the instruction given at the time was that section 39 agencies should look at their cost base and follow public pay policy. This was confirmed by the former head of the HSE to Deputy Louise O'Reilly and also made clear by Mr. Jim Breslin, Secretary General of the Department, when he was before the committee. Therefore, it is only right that there be full restoration in line with what has happened in the public sector.

There is a second issue related to how the costs will be absorbed. Will the Minister inform the House that the cost of pay restoration will be met for the section 39 agencies to ensure they will not reduce services in dealing with the issue?

The answer to the Deputy's last question is "Yes". They will be provided with funding to meet the cost of pay restoration to ensure it will not impact on the delivery of services. I accept that many section 39 organisations applied pay cuts. I also accept, as I think the Deputy does, that section 39 employees are not State employees. Therefore, it is different and the position varies from organisation to organisation. In the WRC process it was found that there were different levels and that cuts had been applied in different ways and that there had been restoration for some but not for others. It was important to analyse the issue correctly and I thank the unions for working with us in that regard.

For those employed by the 50 organisations, the following will apply. Pay restoration will commence, with an annual pay increase of up to €1,000, in April 2019; 50% of the outstanding sum due will be paid on 1 October 2020, with the remaining 50% to be paid on 1 October 2021. That is the agreement. Based on the information available to me, it appears that almost 90% of those staff who suffered a pay cut will, on average, have 75% restored in 2019. The payments are being made on the basis of the following criteria. First, it is pay restoration, not pay progression; second, the intention is to restore pay reductions made and no more; and, third, only staff in the 50 organisations are eligible. We will have to do a further body of work in 2019 on the additional organisations.

I want to tease out the issue of the additional organisations and the number involved to see why we are in a situation where we have to wait until next year to quantify the number of additional employees not covered by the arrangement agreed to at the WRC. Will the Minister outline the organisations not included in the 50 organisations and indicate when we can expect pay restoration to commence for employees in these agencies?

I ran out of time during my last reply.

On the issue of information and returning information for those 50 organisations, there was a deadline date of 23 November. As of 29 November, of the 50 organisations, just over half had returned their applications. A further group have asked for an extension and this has been granted until this Friday, 7 December.

The Deputy logically asked what will happen with the other organisations. The plan is to begin a process of engagement similar to what we did this year for the 50 organisations. Truthfully, I do not have a specific date for when this will happen in 2019 but I will make enquiries and revert directly to the Deputy. Phase 1 of the plan is to begin the restoration of those 50 organisations, starting in April 2018 and then use 2019 to carry out a similar exercise with the other section 39 organisations.

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