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JobPath Programme

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 19 February 2019

Tuesday, 19 February 2019

Ceisteanna (45)

John Brady

Ceist:

45. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the action she plans to take in view of the recent passing of the Dáil Éireann motion regarding JobPath; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [8287/19]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (26 píosaí cainte)

Two weeks ago Sinn Féin brought forward a motion on the much discredited JobPath programme and also made references to successful schemes such as the local employment services, community employment schemes and job clubs that work and have worked over many years across the State. What is the Minister doing to honour the democratic wishes of this Dáil, which overwhelmingly supported the Sinn Féin motion, regarding JobPath?

The Government's position on the recent motion debated in the House on the JobPath service was clearly set out in my contribution and that of others at the time. I note the views of the House on the matter. However, the position of the Government remains unchanged. My Department has entered into legally binding agreements with the JobPath providers and the Government will honour these contractual commitments.

I will reiterate again that the JobPath service performance recorded and published by the Department exceeds contracted target levels and that creditable large-scale customer research, also published by the Department, shows very high levels of customer satisfaction and very low levels of complaints.

The Department also operates a robust inspection and compliance system and a detailed report from the Comptroller and Auditor General made no recommendations regarding how the service is governed. The Department will shortly publish the results of an econometric evaluation of the service which will further indicate that the outcomes for participating jobseekers, both in terms of employment and earnings, are better than those of non-participants. Compared to this body of evidence I note the criticisms of the service are based on anecdotal or very small scale research which would not be considered as reliable evidence in any serious evaluation of the service.

During that particular debate and prior to it I asked Deputies to forward me examples of cases that they believed substantiated the criticisms of the service. Since the debate on the Private Members' motion, I was provided with just two examples of people who expressed dissatisfaction with the service. The case is being reviewed but the nature of the complaint does not differ greatly from representations which are occasionally received in respect of other activation services, including the Department's Intreo service, our CV clubs, local employment services, job clubs etc. It is certainly not suggestive of any widespread or systemic issues with the service over and above what would be expected in a service that has now served in excess of 200,000 Irish citizens.

Therefore, I am satisfied that the proper course of action is to continue with the service in order to support our long-term unemployed jobseekers. Thankfully, the number of long-term jobseekers is dropping, as reported by the Central Statistics Office today.

Deputies from across this Chamber voiced serious concerns and gave example after example of what exactly is happening within Turas Nua and Seetec. Certainly the evidence that was given in this Chamber was not anecdotal. I stated during that debate that Deputies do not lie at home dreaming up these cases. These are real cases. Deputies act as the eyes and ears of the public and those stories, which we raised, were brought to our attention. Therefore, they were certainly not anecdotal evidence.

During the debate the Minister put out the figure of 41,000 full-time jobs having been commenced through JobPath. Myself and other Deputies questioned that figure and asked for a breakdown of those 41,000 so-called job starts. Correspondence the Minister has given me, which is quite startling, shows that only 11,334 jobs out of 206,000 were sustained in employment exceeding 12 months, yet she still stands over this having been the so-called most successive labour activation scheme in this State. How can she conclude that the programme has been successful given that not even close to half of those 41,000 full-time jobs have been sustained in employment for over a year? In terms of the democratic will of the Dáil, we have spoken and the Minister must listen to that and act on it.

I am sure the Deputy will be fully aware that Private Members' motions are not legally binding instructions on Government but what are legally binding are the contractual arrangements that the previous Government entered into with our two contractors among others with regard to activation in this country. I do not believe the Deputy and I are ever going to agree on this and so we will have to agree to disagree. For some reason, he has a problem with the JobPath programme.

The House has.

I will say it again, it is the most successful activation programme that this State has ever had. He does not have to take my figures for it, he can take the CSO figures that were released today. We had the largest drop in long-term unemployment last year that we have had in years. That did not happen by magic. That happened because of all of our activation partners - Seetec, Turas Nua, all our Irish local development network, ILDN, partners, all my community employment host companies and all my Tús companies. They all work collectively and collaboratively with the State to ensure the people who are at risk of being long-term unemployed get the best services they can to get jobs. Despite the Deputy's best efforts, it is working and we are going to continue to do it. As I believe I have said to the Deputy previously, we are conducting a review of all of our activation services to make sure that the next generation of Ireland's unemployed get a tailor-made service. We will do that with our ILDN partners. A review of my community employment schemes is taking place, and we will do that for the rural social scheme, RSS, JobPath, Turas Nua and Seetec when the econometric review comes out.

I am not the only one who has a problem with the JobPath programme. The Dáil has a problem with it. Clearly, the Minister is not going to honour the expressed will of the Dáil, which is the expressed will of the people. She misled the House during the debate. She said nobody had made complaints to the Ombudsman. I checked and there have been numerous complaints-----

There have not.

-----made to the Ombudsman regarding Turas Nua and Seetec. That motion referred to investing and upscaling the successful schemes such as the local employment services and the community employment schemes. We know that referrals to community employment schemes and the local employment service have plummeted. Thousands fewer have been referred to the local employment service. As we speak, there are 1,971 vacancies within community employment schemes the length and breadth of the State. That is not by accident but by design. There is genuine concern regarding the local employment service.

The Indecon report was published a few weeks ago. There is a strong view it is paving the way for the privatisation of some of the successful schemes such as the local employment service in terms of public procurement. Will the Minister invest in the local employment service, as there is genuine concern regarding her intentions? There is a view that the ground is being prepared for the privatisation of that sector going out to public procurement and that the payment by results model will be rolled out. Will the Minister outline what her plans are for the local employment service, the community employments schemes and the other the successful ones?

The Minister cannot ignore the expressed will of the Dáil. We have spoken here. JobPath needs to go and she needs to ensure that it does go.

What I cannot ignore are the contractual obligations the State has with two companies to provide very successful outcomes for in excess of 200,000 people who have gone through their doors.

There have been only 11,344 jobs.

I also stated in the House previously that the termination of the contracts or a step away from any of the terms of contract would leave the State potentially exposed to millions of euro, but the Deputy's party has a magic cheque book, so that does not bother him. It also does not bother him that this is actually working.

There have been only 11,344 jobs.

People are getting work. Some 48,000 people have got work in the past number of years.

It does matter how many have gone through those there have only been 11,344 jobs.

Allow the Minister to continue without interruption or I will move on.

Could I respectfully tell the Deputy, seeing as I am the one who is responding to his question-----

Answer the question.

The Minister must be given an opportunity to respond without interruption.

-----that asking a question requires an answer?

Answer the question.

Asking a question requires the Deputy being quiet when I am speaking, and I being quiet and listening to the Deputy when he is speaking.

There have only been 11,344 jobs. The Minister cannot defend them-----

It is something we have a real problem with.

-----because it is indefensible.

I am going to move on.

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