Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 5 March 2019
39. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform when the Public Service Pay Commission will report on recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10568/19]
Amharc ar fhreagraThis question relates to the work of the Public Service Pay Commission on the issue of recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces. The purpose of it is to get an update from the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, on the status of that work. As the Minister will be aware there is a recruitment and retention crisis across the Defence Forces which I know is an issue of concern across the board. I look forward to the Minister's update.
The Public Service Pay Commission has adopted a modular approach to its work programme for its present exercise focused on recruitment and retention issues in the public service. As the Deputy will be aware, the first module was published by the commission in August 2018 and deals with issues relating to nursing and midwifery, non-consultant hospital doctors and hospital consultants. The commission has not yet confirmed a timeline for completion of the further modules of its work programme, which will examine recruitment and retention issues in other areas of the health sector, the Defence Forces and the Civil Service, building on the preliminary analysis in its 2017 report and on the various submissions it has received.
In regard to the Defence Forces, I understand that written submissions have been received from both the employer and the staff associations. Oral presentations are scheduled for this week, following which I expect the pay commission to be in a position to indicate a likely timeline for the completion of the Defence Forces module. I understand the pay commission has engaged an independent firm to conduct a survey of Defence Forces personnel to assist in the analysis. This follows on from a study conducted in the second half of 2018 of specialist personnel in the Defence Forces. The main data gathering for the survey, which is being facilitated through the Defence Forces, will be conducted in February and March 2019.
As the Minister will know, the numbers in the Defence Forces continue to fall. I understand that the current number is 8,874, which is below the threshold of 9,000 the Government indicated it would not allow the Defence Forces to fall below and which is far short of the 9,500, which was set out within the White Paper. Will the Minister clarify the role of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in respect of this issue? He referred to oral presentations, but I understand that the Chief of Staff made a presentation before the commission on behalf of staff and management this morning, and that he was accompanied by officials from not only the Department of Defence but also the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We know that the latter Department was very much involved in a submission made in September by the Department of Defence and military management. Why is the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform directly involved in detailed presentations by the military and the Department of Defence?
The reason is that my own Department has overall responsibility for pay policy. As a result, we are present or involved in the preparation of submissions to the pay commission. The Deputy will know that in addition to the submissions that the employer makes, submissions are also made by those who represent employees, which, one hopes, allows the Public Service Pay Commission to make a nuanced conclusion in respect of the different issues it examines and make recommendations that will form the basis of acceptance by both sides. The short answer, as I have stated, is that my Department is present because of its responsibility for overall pay policy.
The fundamental question is when the Government expects the matter to move on. I understand the Minister's determination to uphold the integrity of the public service stability agreement, which I support. We are dealing with a construct, however, within the confines of that agreement to address specifically a crisis in recruitment and retention. Any recommendations or any report of the pay commission will need to be evidence based and, therefore, it must be methodical and thorough in its work. The Minister stated that an independent firm is involved and that the survey work of the personnel directly involved has been ongoing in February and March. Members of the Defence Forces, however, want to know when there will be an outcome. Does the Minister have any expectation or understanding as to when he will receive the Public Service Pay Commission's report on recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces?
It is a matter for the pay commission to determine when it will be able to complete the module. It is independent of my Department and reaches its own conclusions about the report and its processes. Nevertheless, as I have outlined, I expect the commission to indicate soon the timeline of the completion of the work. I hope that its indication of a timeline, which will be the first time it will be done publicly, will be of help in managing its work and in maintaining confidence in its work.
