Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Covid-19 Pandemic

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 21 July 2020

Tuesday, 21 July 2020

Ceisteanna (11)

Matt Shanahan

Ceist:

11. Deputy Matt Shanahan asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the learning that has occurred from Covid-19 planning; and the measures that can be implemented into the future regarding public policy planning from recent experience gained. [17332/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)

I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and wish him the very best of luck in his new role, which the country will certainly need. What learning has occurred from Covid-19 planning? What measures might be implemented in the future regarding public policy planning and procurement as a result of the recent experience gained?

I thank the Deputy for his good wishes and for his question and look forward to working with him over the term of this Dáil. He has put forward a really good question. I will read the official answer and look forward to engagement on any particular issues he may wish to discuss in the course of this debate.

Covid-19 has been an unprecedented public health emergency with implications across the economy and society. For that reason, there has been a whole-of-Government response led by the Department of the Taoiseach and involving all Departments with many other public bodies, including my Department. As the Deputy will be aware, the Government has established the Cabinet committee, chaired by the Taoiseach, to assess the social and economic impacts of the potential spread of Covid-19. The work of the Cabinet committee includes addressing the impacts, mitigation measures and contingencies for cross-sectoral issues which arise in areas beyond the health service, building on the effective public health work undertaken to date. A whole-of-Government approach to the Covid-19 response requires cohesive decision-making, a partnership approach, expert public health advice and clarity of communications.

As the Deputy will be aware, the health sector response has been led by the Department of Health and the HSE and questions in this regard are a matter for the Minister for Health. Due to the nature of its role, my Department has been involved in a number of areas of the overall Government response including but not limited to the following. There is a whole list of them and I will read a few into the record. My Department has engaged proactively with relevant Departments from an expenditure perspective throughout the crisis and the Deputy will be aware that the Government has agreed to allocate substantial additional funding to a number of Votes to meet additional costs, including, for example, in the social protection and health areas. The crisis has had major implications for employers and staff across the Civil Service and public service and my Department has provided leadership, direction and a collaborative approach to managing the complex issues that have arisen for public service employers.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

The Office of the Government Chief Information Officer in my Department has worked with other public bodies in the context of the role of digital Government in responding to the crisis. The Office of Government Procurement in my Department has played an important supporting role in respect of aspects of the public procurement response and there have been many innovative elements to the response to this unprecedented crisis. My Department’s reform office is seeking to capture those and will look to reflect them as appropriate in the next phase of the public service reform programme.

My Department has also had its own departmental response to the crisis through the implementation of its internal business continuity plan and the move to large-scale remote working. Lessons have been learned about the value of effective communication and collaboration on cross-cutting issues, the importance of business continuity planning and the effective use of technology, and these will continue to inform the Department’s future approach to such issues.

In conclusion, I would like to pay tribute to the way in which individual public servants and public bodies have responded to this emergency. The response across all sectors has been immense and I am grateful to all the public servants who have played such an important role.

I thank the Minister for his response. One of his areas of responsibility is expenditure and its management and oversight. One of the issues arising in Covid-19, in particular, is the issue of procurement of supply chains. We have had to run to China and spend inordinate amounts of money to try to secure the supply of PPE, when in fact there are a number of companies in this country which could provide that. It is time for HSE procurement to take a very different view on this. The private hospitals deal done recently excluded doctors with private patients and ultimately reduced the amount of capacity we are able to secure. These are things I would like to see the Minister’s Department taking some leadership on.

There is also the question of indigenous manufacturing. The Minister is quite right in that his Department is supporting employment, the pandemic unemployment payments and the wage subsidy schemes but what we actually need is procurement into the end SME sector as well.

I thank the Deputy for raising those points. One of the issues that will have to be considered by Ireland and by Europeans in general is whether we should reduce our reliance on other countries such as China for the provision and manufacturing of essential items that could be required in the event of the pandemic becoming more serious. We need to become more self-sufficient in respect of critical services and goods for our economy. That is a key issue that I am determined that my Department will play a role in trying to manage.

I think our economy will change as a result of Covid-19. The increase we have seen in remote working and more flexible working will be here to stay to some extent, though not to the extent it is at the moment. It will be present across the Civil Service and public service. The aim is that next year we will move towards 20% of working time being remote working from home across the public service. For many public servants, I think that would be a good change. The public service has shown an ability to adapt. It has adapted at a time of great change and has performed exceptionally well. We need to see that level of flexibility implemented in adopting and putting into effect some of the reforms that are necessary to improve our public services further.

I thank the Minister. I look forward to engaging with him. One thing that must be considered is that the State is the largest purchaser in the country. We have to get far more radical about how we procure services and products in this country. I point out to the Minister that there is a list of necessary pharmaceuticals, with about 175 in total. Some 135 are made only in China and India. We need to consider these things, as other countries do, with regard to securing future supply lines and safety in case of future pandemics and future health risks. We can hopefully engage and look at that in greater deal in another forum.

I thank the Deputy. The point he has made about essential supplies and securing the supply line is really important. We will need to reflect carefully on it as we further develop our economic response to Covid-19, because those challenges could emerge again. Not just Ireland, but many other countries were faced with that reality where much large-scale manufacturing has moved to the Far East. A dependence has built up and it is a lesson for the entire European Union that needs to be taken on board and put into effect in new policies. On the procurement issue, I acknowledge the work of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, when he served in that role previously. I note that the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, is keen to continue with the work to open up procurement opportunities for small and medium-sized indigenous businesses in Ireland. That is a key objective of this Government. It is reflected in the programme for Government and we are determined to build on the progress that has been made so far in collaboration with all the representative bodies to cut through some of the red tape and open up those procurement opportunities insofar as we can.

Barr
Roinn