Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Cabinet Committees

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 28 July 2020

Tuesday, 28 July 2020

Ceisteanna (4, 5, 6)

Alan Kelly

Ceist:

4. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on the Environment and Climate Change will next meet. [16886/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

5. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on the Environment and Climate Change will next meet. [18563/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

6. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on the Environment and Climate Change will next meet. [18795/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (7 píosaí cainte)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 6, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on the environment and climate change was formally established by the Government on 6 July 2020. It will oversee the implementation of the programme for Government commitments on the environment and climate change and will receive detailed reports on identified priority areas, including the annual climate action plan. The first meeting of the committee has been scheduled for 30 July 2020. Thereafter, I anticipate that it will meet at least once every four weeks, as outlined in the programme for Government.

The programme for Government states that climate change is the single greatest threat facing humanity. The Taoiseach obviously takes an interest in this matter, as do his coalition colleagues, particularly those in the Green Party. The Government has committed to halving carbon emissions by 2032 although, incredibly, the plan expects the next Government to do more of the heavy lifting than the current one. That is kind of ironic. It is polite and decent of the Taoiseach to lump most of the work onto his successors. One never knows who will be around to do the work.

The real question is what the Government intends to achieve over the next five years. I would like to dig into a little detail about what areas the Government will target and what conversations have been had, given that the Cabinet committee has not met. We need to see enormous changes to our economy that will reflect our prioritisation of the climate. We also need to do it in a decent way through a just transition. I have spoken about this numerous times and the Taoiseach has already referenced it today. I share the concerns of other parliamentarians here. I represent Littleton in County Tipperary where people lost jobs with the closure of the Bord na Móna plant.

They will put together proposals on the just transition commissioner. We are committed to our international commitments to halve our carbon emissions by 2030 and become zero emitters by 2050. I know how difficult this area is, as I was the Minister who introduced climate change legislation in this country.

What is the Taoiseach going to do about transport? What will be done in respect of rail lines? What will be done to ensure there is a greater use of rail lines? It is a capital intensive area. In his response the Taoiseach might outline how the Government will support that, and how it will support public enterprises and State organisations so that they are better able to do more to deal with the climate crisis we are all facing. We need to ensure that a number of State organisations are refocused on the deep requirements they will have in the coming years.

The climate situation was an emergency that needed to be addressed before Covid-19. The urgency to address the climate emergency has now been multiplied very significantly by the advent of Covid-19. There is a very important natural intersection between the destruction of biodiversity and the proliferation of pandemics.

Some serious scientists are, to some extent, suggesting and have evidence to believe that the frequency of pandemics in recent years is linked to the destruction of biodiversity. H1N1, swine flu, bird flu, coronavirus, SARS, MERS and Ebola are some of the more well-known pandemics. Why is this happening? One very significant reason is the destruction of biodiversity, given that biodiversity acts as a natural firebreak to the spread of virus and disease. The destruction of biodiversity, in particular the destruction of natural habitats and forests, creates the conditions where pandemics of this sort, and the jumping of viruses from animals to humans, become more likely. We need to grasp that very important fact.

Where are the most naturally biodiverse areas in this country? They are the ancient woodlands which have been almost completely destroyed. Does the Taoiseach know how much ancient woodland is left in Ireland? Just 0.002%, and that is under pressure. The lack of biodiversity in our forests has an impact in terms of its version of a virus, such as invasive species threatening them in, for example, Killarney National Park.

We need to protect and nurture the ancient woodlands and allow them to expand. We need a real focus on and investment in this area, rather than monoculture forestry and the forms of agriculture that are destroying our biodiversity in a way that is threatening not just the natural world but the ability of the planet to sustain our existence.

Following on from my previous question, I am happy to correct my assertion that the Taoiseach's top-up was €50,000. It was, as he correctly stated, €30,000. Will he inform the House at what point he stopped receiving that top-up payment?

Will the Taoiseach also tell us what contribution or engagement the Cabinet committee on the environment and climate change has had on the July stimulus plan? I would have thought that was the Taoiseach's first set-piece opportunity to explicitly and comprehensively marry the agenda of climate justice and the framework in the plan for economic recovery. The truth is that the plan is very scant on detail in terms of the Government's commitments on climate change.

The July stimulus plan includes a commitment to a retrofitting skills training initiative to support the future expansion of the national retrofitting programme. This is just one example. We do not know what targets have been set in terms of the numbers to be trained and the impact their work will have on the Government's annual retrofit targets.

Similarly, the Government has made a commitment to increase infrastructure related spending by 12%, or €1 billion. How much of this will be invested in public transport, cycle lanes and greenways? Of the moneys committed in the July announcement, how much is additional to the existing 2020 budget?

It would be my expectation that the Cabinet committee would be the appropriate space for Ministers to develop interdepartmental proposals to meet Ireland's domestic and international climate action obligations. It would be helpful if the Taoiseach were to clarify whether this approach will be adopted by the committee in the time ahead.

In the first instance, as I outlined, the Minister, Deputy Ryan, will chair the committee. The agenda is clearly set out in the programme for Government. The immediate objectives of the Cabinet committee will be, for example, the climate action (amendment) Bill, which will be introduced to Dáil Éireann within the first 100 days of the Government, the development of a national retrofitting plan and the progression of matters in furtherance of our move to a higher rate of renewable energy, such as the marine planning and development Bill, which will be an important Bill, the wind energy guidelines and the just transition, in particular.

As the Deputy knows, we intend to hypothecate the carbon fund which will create about €9.5 billion over ten years. As the Deputy also knows, €3 billion of that is earmarked to protect against fuel poverty and the bulk is earmarked for retrofitting. The remaining money will be used for a rural environment protection scheme which will be designed to help farmers adapt to the challenges of climate change and create practices to remunerate and incentivise them to create practices that would be in alignment with our climate change objectives.

The climate action fund was established in law through the early enactment of the National Oil Reserves Agency Bill. In respect of Deputy McDonald's question, we will also publish a detailed all-of-Government implementation plan which will be consistent with the recommendations of the just transition commissioner's first report. The just transition commissioner was established as a statutory office and published the terms of the trust transition plan to frame the work of a permanent commission. There is a lot of work to be done, much of which is already under way by the Minister. The publication of overarching legislation is an important foundation stone on which many of the actions will be based.

Deputy Kelly said a lot will fall on the next Government. The key decisions that will be made now will clearly have an impact on the future in terms of our performance on greenhouse gas emissions. Building blocks have to be put in place now and will have an impact in the latter half of a ten-year period in terms of achieving a significant reduction.

I take Deputy Boyd Barrett's point very seriously, but I do not have the scientific proof. I am aware of the thesis on the link between weakening biodiversity and the growth of pandemics. There can be different factors. The growth of the world population has to be a factor and, in certain areas, it is certainly facilitating the ease of spread.

We have had SARS, MERS, H1N1, the swine flu and so on. Covid-19 is the one that got away insofar as it was not tested and contract-traced out of existence. I spoke to a number of scientists who are of the view that we may see these more frequently now than we would have over the past 100 years.

I support fully every effort to retain and strengthen our biodiversity. The Deputy mentioned ancient woodlands. We must do everything we possibly can to protect but also incentivise the nurturing of our biodiversity, which can recover if it is given the space to do so, both marine and on land. That is why I favour the rural environmental protection scheme, the just transition fund and also initiatives to create more native woodland on farms. We should try to persuade farmers to do this. We must have a contrast to the monoculture forestry policy. We need to grow more indigenous native Irish trees on a grander scale than we have done to date. That is extremely important and I will work with the responsible Ministers in that regard.

In terms of the retrofit agenda, obviously there will have to be a degree of upskilling. We have to work with the institutes of technology and education and training boards, ETBs, in developing programmes to bring a greater cohort of people who will be skilled in the retrofitting area. There will be significant opportunities in that field into the future because the Government aims to increase the number of retrofits and retrofitting activity generally.

Regarding Deputy McDonald's final question, the allowance is an Opposition allowance, which ceases when one is no longer an Opposition Member or Opposition leader. Therefore, it ceased on becoming Taoiseach. That is the basic approach.

I asked the Taoiseach a question on transport and rail infrastructure which he did not answer. I would appreciate if he would answer it. As a highly capital intensive area, planning in this area takes a number of years. The Government's interests in this area and the signal it will give as to what it plans to do in the area - whether on rolling stock, track improvements, improving the services in Dublin - will have to be flagged early if they are to be achieved in the lifetime of the Government. What are the plans in this regard in the first six months of the Government? From a climate change perspective, they are obviously critical.

The national development plan will be reviewed and obviously there are key agenda items in terms of rail infrastructure generally across the country. In the July stimulus funding is already going into remedial works in our existing railways. Developing fast-track rail between the major cities is one agenda item. There are major projects in and around the Dublin area, including the metro and so on. There is a review of the western rail corridor and proposals for that are being looked at as well. The trend will be strongly towards public transport into the future. Deputy Kelly is right, projects will take a lot of planning and design but the development of public transport initiatives in the NDP review will be important to achieving our climate goals.

Barr
Roinn