Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 9 September 2020
22. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science his views on whether it is fair to expect students to pay the highest fees in the European Union at a time when many students have lost work and many households have seen a drop in their income, particularly if courses are to be conducted partially or completely online; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22596/20]
Amharc ar fhreagra51. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the way in which the Central Applications Office, CAO, will ensure that students who sat the leaving certificate in 2019 are not disadvantaged by the model used to produce predicted grades; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22597/20]
Amharc ar fhreagraI thank the Minister for his indulgence in taking Question No. 51 as well. He knows it is important that we create a level playing field for leaving certificate students and ensure they are not put at a disadvantage with the predicted grades scheme. I know the Minister has said there are extra places, which I very much welcome. He mentioned the creation of 5,000 places but going on the Department's predictions of what would be needed even before Covid-19, according to the 2018 report, an additional number in excess of 4,000 places were required by 2020. Did the Minister take this and other factors into account in creating the level playing field that is now required?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 22 and 51 together.
I was very grateful to Deputy Conway-Walsh for wanting to transfer questions in order to highlight this matter as I know the issue is important and timely. This year has been one like no other, and it was a year when a leaving certificate class could not do a leaving certificate exam. At every twist and turn, everybody in this House and across society has wanted to see a system that is as fair as possible put in place to protect the integrity of the leaving certificate and to ensure we could have a pathway for as many people as possible to move on from school to college.
That was not always guaranteed if one did not devise a system for doing it. Many Members of the House, including the Deputy, rightly called for the removal of the school profiling piece of the standardisation and that has happened. That will have a knock-on effect on grade inflation, but the school profiling needed to be removed. What can the Government do? We had already increased the number of places for higher education in the budget by 2,700. On top of that, we funded 1,415 additional places for key skills needs in areas of the economy such as ICT, engineering and science. The Deputy will recall that last week I received approval from the Government for 1,250 extra college places and, rather than try to decide in the Dáil or in the Government where to direct them, we asked the HEIs to identify their high-demand courses and to allocate those additional places to match those courses if they had the capacity or flexibility. That was welcomed across the board.
I have been working in the last few days to see if it is possible to create more capacity, even at this stage, and I am pleased to inform the Deputy that, through our engagement with the Higher Education Authority, HEA, and the institutions, I am in a position to confirm that there will be a further 800 additional college places on top of the 1,250 we announced last week. I hope this will go some way towards relieving pressure. To be clear, I expect the points to rise. Higher grades will result in higher points. There is no way around that. However, the most practical, sensible thing we can do is try to provide as many places as possible. I thank all the institutions and universities throughout the country for their leadership on this because, as Deputy Cairns said, it is not easy to ask people to create more places in a Covid environment, but I hope this is welcome news to many.
Yes, the extra 800 places are indeed welcome and I hope this will go some way towards alleviating the anxiety people among the prior leaving certificate students are feeling today. It is a pity we have left it to such a late stage because these students have had months of anxiety. I was first contacted in June about this, and we must never let this happen again. I acknowledge what the third level institutions are doing to try to facilitate what needs to be done here. Should we be in a situation on Friday or Monday next in which those extra places have not alleviated the issue, could the Minister consider some of the other points that I and my colleague, Deputy Ó Laoghaire, have put forward? The Minister said there were some legal issues with some of the suggestions. I have written to the Minister separately to seek clarification of that legal advice, particularly with regard to seeing if we could have the prior leaving certificate students assessed on the points that were required in the year they did their leaving certificate.
I acknowledge the Deputy's and Deputy Ó Laoghaire's constructive engagement on this issue. I have looked at all the options because this year calls for us to look at absolutely everything we can possibly do. The clear advice available to me, and I am happy to write to the Deputy on this, is that the ring-fencing of places is legally fraught for a variety of reasons, principally on the basis that if a 2020 student missed out versus a 2019 student, and there are a number of issues in that regard, the idea of recalculating grades to bring 2019 in line with 2020 does not work. The 4.4% is an average figure. It does not mean everybody in 2020 rose by 4.4%. The clear legal and policy advice available to me was that the most logical and sensible thing to do, based on my engagement with the institutions, was to increase the number of places.
Let us be honest, however. Every year people apply to the CAO from different years. Many are happy and get their first choice. I expect many more people to get their top preferences this year than in any other year. We also know it is a day of disappointment for other people. All Members of the House must point out that there are many pathways to get to where one wishes to go. I encourage people to have their plan A for Friday but also to have their plan B, that is, if they do not get their choice to look at what else they might like to do this year. There are many options. They should talk to a teacher or guidance counsellor and get that good advice.
Like the Minister, I encourage people to look at all the pathways that are available. I am concerned about the students who are contacting me who went through all the options last year. One student, for example, got 517 points. He had to have his grades re-examined and by the time he did so he was too late for a college place this year. It is those students who worked the hardest and gave the highest level of commitment but who were disappointed last year who felt sure they would be getting those places this year. I am concerned about the physical and mental health of these students. We must do everything we can to alleviate that and facilitate them. We also must be looking at the class of 2021 to ensure that we have learned from this year and that these things never happen again.
I agree with much of what the Deputy said. Let us hope a year like this year never happens again. It has been an extraordinary year that nobody could predict. I welcome what the Deputy said. There has been an effort by some, not the Deputy, perhaps to pit one year group against the other. Every student and year group has experienced a difficult impact as a result of the pandemic. The class of 2020 has had a rotten year. The people of 2019 are now concerned. There has been anxiety and stress for everybody. We are all trying to alleviate that as best we can, while accepting that every year there are students who are disappointed that they do not get their choice. We are saying that they may get a second or third choice and there are always ways of moving from one choice to another choice. My strong advice is that they try to get themselves into the system. I note that over 15,000 people last year applied for health and welfare courses and 5,700 or 5,800 got places. Every year people apply for their first choice and do not get it. Some of those who accept their second choice go on to have the careers they wanted. There are always ways to get to where one wishes to go. We are continuing to do what we can to maximise the capacity but, to be honest, we are now very much at the outer limits of the additional capacity we can add to the system this year with the additional 800 places today.
