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Cabinet Committees

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 15 September 2020

Tuesday, 15 September 2020

Ceisteanna (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

7. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee that deals with transport will next meet. [22339/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

8. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Economic Recovery and Investment will next meet. [22610/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

9. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee that deals with the economy will next meet. [22651/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Paul Murphy

Ceist:

10. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Economic Recovery and Investment will next meet. [22655/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Alan Kelly

Ceist:

11. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Economic Recovery and Investment will next meet. [23636/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

12. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach the Cabinet committee that deals with matters relating to transport. [23926/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (10 píosaí cainte)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment has been established and first met on 8 July. It has met on a total of four occasions, most recently on 2 September. The Cabinet committee will meet regularly but the date of the next meeting has not yet been confirmed. The membership of the committee comprises the Taoiseach; the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; the Minister with responsibility for climate action, communications networks and transport; the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister with responsibility for media, tourism, arts, culture, sport and the Gaeltacht. Other Ministers or Ministers of State will attend when required.

The Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment is responsible for matters relating to the economy and investment. Its initial focus was on developing the July jobs stimulus. This was a package of more than €7 billion of measures announced by the Government on 23 July. It is designed to stimulate a jobs-based recovery to build economic confidence while continuing to manage the impact of Covid-19. It includes measures to extend income and employment supports to affected individuals in companies to help people get back to work, training or education, and to build confidence among businesses in supporting them through the months ahead. It is to invest in jobs-rich infrastructure and projects in every part of the country and in areas of future growth, such as the green economy.

Matters relevant to the transport sector may arise, as required, at a number of Cabinet committees, most notably the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment. They can also arise at the Cabinet committee on environment and climate change. Matters relating to the economy and transport are regularly discussed at full Cabinet meetings, where all formal decisions are made.

I have questioned the Taoiseach and appealed to him extensively, including today, on matters relating to taxi drivers and the public transport system. As we discussed earlier, there was a major protest involving taxi drivers today. The Taoiseach has expressed sympathy but has not given a clear commitment. When will he make a decision on the key demands being made by taxi drivers, because they are desperate? They are incurring debts and have virtually no income. They do not know whether to stay on the reducing pandemic unemployment payment or go back to work, where they cannot possibly make a living, and lose all that payment. Insurance costs, repayments, licence renewals fees, car maintenance, fuel and all these costs and debts meanwhile are clocking up. When will the Taoiseach make a decision on their central request, which is for an income subsidy to allow them a baseline income on top of which they can earn money, knowing that until we have health restrictions lifted, they will not have the capacity to fully make their living. The same question applies to the arts, music and live entertainment workers. They need to get an answer to this central request.

With regard to the taxi drivers, there are some measures that would not even cost anything. Stopping the issuing of new taxi licences would cost the Government nothing, as would extending the ten-year replacement rule to 12 years. Getting rid of the taxi advisory committee, which is completely discredited, and replacing it with a national taxi transport forum, with proper representation for taxi drivers so that they could actually be heard from, would cost nothing. When will we get answers to such matters?

The 50% capacity rule on public transport, along with the fact that many people do not want to use it because they are frightened, has led to a problem and we need to increase capacity in public transport dramatically. We have some of that capacity with private buses and our taxi friends, who have no work. What will we do to increase public transport capacity given the 50% restriction on capacity?

Similarly, I want to raise with the Taoiseach the lack of pace with which his Government has responded to the economic crisis. Deputy Boyd Barrett quite correctly raises the case of the taxi drivers, but I can cite a more general example in the credit guarantee scheme, which represents a vital lifeline for business as the economic crisis has deepened. We made the case for the removal of the 50% portfolio cap for this guarantee scheme for small and medium enterprises a full two months before the Government relented and adopted our policy.

By the way, the credit guarantee scheme came to be in Ireland months after similar schemes were introduced and up and running in other European jurisdictions. Similarly, the stay and spend tax refund scheme is clumsy, awkward and falls well short of what is required for tourism and hospitality. We are second only to Spain in terms of jobs losses in the second quarter of this year. We have levels of youth unemployment that are eye-watering and terrifying, and I see no sign of any response or thought-out plan for that. It is very disappointing. If the Government deals with unemployment and particularly youth unemployment in the same slow, clumsy manner that has become the hallmark of its economic response, we will be in very big trouble.

I will raise two matters with the Taoiseach.

The first pertains to the redundancy law which was extended today. With this law the Government has effectively allowed companies to make workers redundant while refusing to allow workers who have been laid off to invoke redundancy to get the payments to which they are entitled. Instead these workers are being left in limbo. They cannot get their redundancy payments from the company, but they are told by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to look for a new job or be cut off from the Covid-19 pandemic unemployment payment. Will the Minister intervene to ensure workers get their entitlements without any further delay?

The second issue I want to raise is the mistreatment of workers by Aer Lingus. The Taoiseach might be aware that Aer Lingus is currently paying its workers only 30% of their basic wages. These experienced workers with families to feed and rents to pay are expected to live on less than the dole. Some workers have been left with as little as €150 a week to live on while the company is bailed out by the public purse. In recent weeks I have been contacted by several of those workers. They have spoken about the impossible situation they are in and their worries about how they will survive on these poverty wages. The company has now told these workers not to reach out to Deputies, speak out on social media or talk about the situation they are facing. The rules of the temporary Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme must be changed to ensure all companies in receipt of State support pay their workers decent wages.

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform gave an interview to the Business Post over the weekend, which I presume the Taoiseach read. Is the Taoiseach ruling out increases to income or wealth tax in the coming budget? Has he ruled out increases to social welfare payments or the Christmas bonus? What will be the size of the national recovery fund, and will this be new money? We do not know because we have not had a statement from the Taoiseach. To what use will it be put?

The deficit is expected to be €30 billion. At the end of August it was €9.5 billion. The difference is more than €20 billion, some €5 billion a month. I do not know how realistic all of this is. There is a huge lack of information from the Government. What will the real impacts of this on current and capital funding be? As I am sure the Taoiseach heard, his partner in government, the Green Party, has announced that the M20 will not happen in the next five years. Is that accurate? Is there any truth in recent commentary on the national children's hospital project? What is the situation there? What are the plans to deal with this deficit, and how will it affect future spending to which the Government has already committed?

I would like to ask a quick question about the Covid-19 plan which I am not sure is allowable. There are now restrictions on people living in Dublin. They must limit their travel outside of County Dublin. I come from Wicklow. A huge number of my constituents commute to Dublin, as do many others from Meath and Kildare. Are there any restrictions on people entering Dublin or does the plan only place limits on people leaving it?

Many Aer Lingus workers have been reduced from 50% to 30% of their wages and are unable to claim social welfare payments. People with families and mortgages have been left to survive on between €100 and €200 a week. Can the Taoiseach imagine the resulting stress and the toll on people's mental health? Uproar followed and the Government has now assured workers that payments have been sanctioned, but I want to ask the Taoiseach if this is really the case. Reports of workers being refused are still coming in. Finally, I would like the Taoiseach to comment on the fact that Aer Lingus is not paying workers the full value of the temporary Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme.

Deputy Boyd Barrett was first with his query on taxi drivers, the Covid-19 pandemic unemployment payment and the temporary Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme. I have spoken to the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Certain social protection measures allow her to help out people in certain sectors such as the arts, and she has been in contact with them. As I said to the Deputy earlier, a broader approach is under consideration. That work is being carried on between the relevant Ministers in preparation for the budget. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, will be meeting representatives of taxi drivers. I take the Deputy's point about measures that do not cost money but have wider implications. He referred to suspending the issuing of taxi licences. We have extended the period of renewal from ten years to 12 years. The 50% rule concerning public transport is a public health measure. Buses do not grow on trees. They are not easy to procure. Huge efforts are underway at the moment to procure buses for school routes while complying with public health advice, but that takes time. The 50% rule regarding public transport still has a very strong public health basis. We have engaged with NPHET on this, and it is of the view that the rule should be maintained.

In response to Deputy Kelly's queries about the budget, I note that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform will issue statements tomorrow on overall budgetary strategy pertaining to deficits and expenditure. Tax receipts have been buoyant, which reflects the progressive nature of the tax system but also shows that those on lower incomes have lost out more. Tax returns, particularly corporate tax receipts, have remained solid, which is helping the overall financial situation. That said, there has been an unprecedented intervention in the economy. People who use words like "awkward" and "clumsy" need to get real. The scale of the intervention is anything but awkward or clumsy. The Government has only been in place for 11 or 12 weeks. The temporary Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme has been extended to April. The Covid-19 pandemic unemployment payment has been extended, and the rates are still relative to what people were earning before Covid. It has also been opened to new entrants. There is a suite of enterprise measures such as the restart grant scheme, supports and tax measures. This will benefit lots of people involved in enterprises.

Deputy Murphy raised the issue of redundancy payments. There is an issue here that we must all face. Our overarching priority is to protect employment. If redundancy claims were triggered straight away, many enterprises could fold overnight. The whole agenda during this pandemic is to get as many enterprises as possible through it intact so that after Covid-19 they can grow again and employ their existing workforce and more workers if possible. That is a laudable objective in itself, but there are limits to it and the intervention has only been extended to November. The budget will include further financial intervention to support certain sectors of the economy. We are going to assist particularly those sectors that will not enjoy the income levels they would have enjoyed if the public health advice was otherwise.

Deputy Kelly mentioned the Green Party. I understand that the Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, website already referred to a five-year timeline for the M20, including the planning and design stages. That is where it was. People deliberately distort certain statements but that is the factual position. I remember checking it during the negotiation of the programme for Government. That was the timeline on the TII website-----

No, it was not.

-----in relation to the M20. It is committed to and it will be going ahead.

In response to Deputy Whitmore I repeat my answer to Deputy Kelly. NPHET has advised that people in Dublin should not travel outside of Dublin if possible. Obviously people who commute for work will continue to do so.

The full value of the temporary Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme should be paid to employees, and I will look into the issue concerning Aer Lingus raised by Deputies Mick Barry and Paul Murphy.

Sitting suspended at 4.10 p.m. and resumed at 4.30 p.m.
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