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Cabinet Committees

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 22 September 2020

Tuesday, 22 September 2020

Ceisteanna (8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

Paul Murphy

Ceist:

8. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach the role of his Department in the development of the forthcoming plan for dealing with Covid-19. [23685/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Alan Kelly

Ceist:

9. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Covid-19 will next meet. [23764/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

10. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Covid-19 will next meet. [25001/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Alan Kelly

Ceist:

11. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Covid-19 oversight group; the terms of reference for the group; and if a list of the standing membership will be provided. [25395/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

12. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach the role of his Department in the development of the forthcoming plan for dealing with Covid-19. [25609/20]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (32 píosaí cainte)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 to 12, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on Covid-19 was re-established by the Government on 29 June to continue to assess the social and economic impacts of the potential spread of Covid-19 and oversee the cross-Government response. The committee, which I chair, meets as regularly as required and has met on five occasions since 29 June, most recently on Friday last, 18 September, to consider the latest advices from NPHET in advance of a full Cabinet meeting. The date of the next meeting has not yet been set.

A senior officials group, chaired by the secretary to the Cabinet committee and from my Department, supports the special Cabinet committee and ensures a dedicated, high-level, cross-Government focus on the Covid-19 response.

A range of social and economic issues which cut across many Departments has been considered and progressed through both the senior officials group and the Cabinet committee on Covid-19, leading to the development of Ireland's national plan in response to Covid-19, the Roadmap for Reopening Society and Business as well as Resilience and Recovery 2020-2021: Plan for Living with Covid-19, which was launched last week.

As Members will be aware, following a Government decision on Friday afternoon, County Dublin was moved to level 3 of the framework for restrictive measures for a period of three weeks while the other 25 counties remain at level 2. A package of economic measures was also agreed by Government on Friday to include a 30% top-up to the restart plus grant to help support those affected through the three-week period. This will be available immediately through the normal application process at an estimated additional cost of €30 million. Applications from County Dublin will be prioritised for the wide range of existing loan and voucher schemes available to assist businesses affected by Covid-19 through the July jobs stimulus and other Government initiatives.

Specifically within the level 3 measures outlined for Dublin, a maximum of six visitors from one other household are permitted within a person's home, restaurants and cafes, including bars and pubs serving food, must close indoor dining but can remain open for takeaway and delivery and for outdoor dining for up to 15 people and weddings are reduced to 25 guests with the exception of existing arrangements for weddings last weekend only, which were allowed to proceed with up to 50 guests.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

The medium-term plan, Resilience and Recovery 2020-2021: Plan for Living with Covid-19, which the Government launched last week, frames Ireland's approach to managing and living with Covid-19 for the coming six to nine months. It aims to bring some clarity to help everyone to plan over the medium term and includes a framework for restrictive measures, which is a risk management strategy for the next six to nine months. The plan was drawn up by officials on a cross-departmental basis co-ordinated by my Department and the Department of Health. It was considered at length by the Cabinet committee and approved by Government.

The framework is designed to allow individuals, families, businesses and services to better understand, anticipate and prepare for the measures the Government might introduce to stop escalation of the transmission of the disease. It recognises the need for an incremental, stepwise approach which takes account of the societal and economic impacts of the response to infection outbreaks. These measured responses are aimed at ensuring that the impact of restrictive measures on the lives of people in Ireland will be kept to the minimum necessary.

The plan is framed to account for periods in which there is low incidence of the disease, with isolated clusters and low community transmission, through to periods where there is high or rapidly increasing incidence, widespread community transmission and the pandemic is escalating rapidly in Ireland and globally. It recognises the need for society and business to be allowed to continue as normally as possible. Each level contains a basket of measures which are intended, collectively, to contribute to lowering the risk of transmission in alignment with the risk level at that time.

The plan also sets out our medium-term approach and priorities for managing and living with Covid in a range of areas, including prevention of infection and protection of vulnerable groups, health system response and resilience, approach to international travel, continued resumption of public service delivery, including non-Covid health and social care, protective services and access to justice, and developing economic, community and personal resilience. It will be reviewed at the end of March 2021.

To achieve these aims the National Public Health Emergency Team will continue to provide guidance and expert public health advice for the overall national response to Covid-19. A Covid-19 oversight group chaired by the secretary to the Government has been established and will meet regularly to provide advice to the Government on the strategic economic and social policy responses to the management of the disease and to consider the NPHET advices. Membership of the oversight group includes senior officials from my Department and the Departments of Health; Public Expenditure and Reform; Business, Enterprise and Innovation; Finance; Foreign Affairs; Justice; the acting Chief Medical Officer and the director general of the Health Service Executive along with the chiefs of staff to the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister with responsibility for transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan. The Cabinet committee on Covid-19 which I chair, will continue to assess the social and economic impacts of the potential spread of Covid-19 and oversee the cross-Government response. Senior officials groupings will be convened by my Department to drive implementation of the plan and support preparations for the Cabinet committee and the oversight group.

The cut to the pandemic unemployment payment is happening concurrently with the increase in and stepping up of restrictions. This is a time when people need support from the State to deal with the coronavirus rather than punishment. How on earth can the Taoiseach justify slashing the supports to workers who have lost their jobs due to Covid when we have a second wave of the coronavirus and a second wave of restrictions which means more workers are going to lose their jobs? When this was done before the Government accepted that people should not be driven into poverty or homelessness for following public health guidelines. That is why we had the €350 per week payment and the ban on evictions. Now however, precisely when people will need these protections the most, the Government has removed the evictions ban and today it is cutting the Covid payment. I believe the Taoiseach is paid €550 per day from the public purse, yet he is slashing the income of people who are already struggling to get by to €203 per week in some cases. It would take them 1,000 weeks to receive what the Taoiseach makes in a year, yet they are the ones who are being asked to take a cut.

I will make three quick points. First, I learned from the Cabinet meeting's response today that the Government is proposing a six-month review of the Sick Leave and Parental Leave (Covid-19) Bill 2020 the Labour Party will introduce tomorrow. Six months is frankly stupid. This is a Covid measure. Is this a laugh? We are proposing this Bill to help. The Taoiseach often criticises the Opposition. This is a constructive measure, as he said earlier. Today we found out from Tusla that there have been 63 cases of Covid-19 in early years services. These are some of the lowest paid workers in Ireland. They must make a choice between going to work with a symptom and not getting paid. That is what the Bill addresses. I ask the Taoiseach not to do this tomorrow. I am saying this in a constructive way. We need sick pay legislation to fight Covid-19. We are one of only five countries in the world that does not have it.

Second, will the Taoiseach indicate what the criteria are for walk-in testing centres? We had one in Rathkeale, for instance. The northern part of Limerick city has a 14-day average of 126.8 Covid infections per 100,000 population. That is higher than counties Louth, Waterford, Leitrim or Donegal. It is one of the most deprived areas of the city. What are the criteria for bringing in a walk-in testing facility because north Limerick desperately needs one?

Finally, what are we doing as regards other testing technologies? Other jurisdictions and countries are using different testing technologies for antibody testing, etc.

I have one such test here, which I did-----

What are we doing regarding future testing technologies?

I raise the very deep sense of abandonment felt by citizens with disabilities, their families, carers and service providers. The Government has yet to allocate the necessary additional funding for disability day services to enable them to deal with the impact of Covid-19. We are now six months into this pandemic. The disability services submitted their funding requirements to the HSE in mid-June. I understand the HSE collated and verified these submissions in July.

The submission set out the additional funding required to enable those services to meet their additional costs to operate during this pandemic for the remainder of 2020 and the projected costs for 2021. I cannot overstate the deep sense of abandonment and frustration that citizens with disabilities and their carers and support services feel. It is to their very great credit that these organisations and families have battled on through the crisis, despite the huge challenge and the collapse in revenue for them. Will the Taoiseach commit to the additional ring-fenced funding that is required? The Disability Federation of Ireland estimates approximately €120 million will be a necessary part of the winter plan to allow disability day services to resume for these citizens.

The Taoiseach's decision to press ahead with the cuts to the PUP are a disgraceful and dangerous betrayal of thousands of working people who have lost jobs and incomes because of Government measures. The people who have been hit hardest by the pandemic are now being kicked while they are down. This is grossly unjust and a serious danger to the collective social solidarity that is absolutely critical to defeating Covid-19. If the Government loses the faith of the people and punishes those who have lost their jobs and income as a result of its restrictions, it will lose the dressing room. People will lose faith in the public health effort and it will unravel. It is grossly economically and financially unfair to those who lose their jobs and it threatens the public health effort. Does the Taoiseach not see this? Does he not see that the new restrictions with rising infection rates will mean more people are going to lose their jobs, some for the second time, and others will have no prospect of a return to their jobs? To cut their income is a knife in the back. Does the Taoiseach not see this?

The PUP was introduced early in the life of the pandemic as a 12-week temporary scheme. In July, the new Government decided to extend it to April. The rates were reduced but they are still at levels closely approximate to what people were earning before being laid off as a result of the pandemic. This was to make it more sustainable over the long term. A total of €3.5 billion has already been allocated to the pandemic unemployment payment. The social protection bill has gone from €20 billion to €28 billion. We must look beyond April and plan accordingly because the impact of Covid financially to the end of 2021 could be far more severe on us as a country than we anticipated. Someone at some stage has to deal with reality in terms of the overall implications. This also applies to the wage subsidy scheme.

The PUP worked in the initial phase. It has been refined. Originally, 600,000 people were on it and it is now down to 200,000 people. Alongside these 200,000 people are 213,000 people on the jobseeker's allowance of €203 a week. These are people who were made unemployed in January or February and never received the PUP. We have to try to achieve a balance somewhere along the way. We must also do everything we possibly can to create alternative jobs, give additional supports in terms of reskilling and try to facilitate people back into the workplace where work is available.

The idea that the Government is trying to stick knives in people is nonsense and rubbish. The Government has made the most unprecedented intervention in underpinning income in the history of the State. This is understandable and it is the correct thing to do because of an unprecedented global pandemic. Some of the language emanating from Deputies opposite in this regard is unfair. We have to think ahead. All of this is being borrowed on behalf of the taxpayer. We have to work ahead and make sure we can sustain it for an indefinite period. We do not know when a vaccine will arrive. Various projections are made from time to time and there can be setbacks.

We have opened up the pandemic unemployment payment to new entrants to cater for where severe restrictions are brought in. Originally it was going to be tapered off. That is no longer the case and it is being opened up again for people who are rendered unemployed as a result of decisions taken to introduce localised restrictions in given areas. A range of other supports is being given to people in various sectors to try to keep jobs going and keep the enterprises intact to maintain jobs. This is the overall objective.

To answer Deputy Kelly on sick pay, there is the Covid illness benefit. It is very unfair to make the points he made. The Government does recognise the exceptional challenge faced by employees during the Covid-19 pandemic and the lack of a statutory sick pay regime. This is why a six-month period is being given. The Government is reacting constructively to the Labour Party's Bill. We are saying to come on and let us get sense. We need to talk to the various Departments. We also need to talk to employers because the Labour Party proposes they would to take the brunt of it.

Let me speak.

The CMO, the chief executive officer of the HSE and the chief clinical officer all want this.

We also need to talk to the unions so that we get a comprehensive sustainable sick pay regime.

The Taoiseach says he is listening to public health advice. Listen to the advice.

We are working towards this. In the meantime, in the context of Covid, the Covid-19 illness benefit is available at a rate of €350 per week to employees and the self-employed. That is the case.

It does not change the conundrum for low paid workers.

It is paid for two weeks where a person is medically certified as self-isolating. It can be extended for a further two weeks for a maximum of ten weeks where a person is medically certified.

The Taoiseach is able to spread the-----

I ask the Deputy to stop interrupting. He disingenuously presented the Government's case wrongly.

That benefit is available for a further ten weeks if a person is medically certified as being diagnosed with Covid-19. In a minority of cases where people continue to be sick after ten weeks they can apply for the standard illness benefit payment and can receive it for up to two years. We have extended this for people living in direct provision as well.

The Deputy has missed the point that we recognise the need to look at the broader issue of a sustainable sick pay regime in Ireland and, therefore, we are anxious to work with the Deputy's party on getting agreeable legislative proposals to make it happen.

It will not help with Covid.

There is enough provision there for Covid.

Can I have an answer on disability services please?

In terms of disabilities, we have been working with service providers, many of whom are not in a position to resume fully, not because of funding but because of protocols on Covid. We will continue to work with them on the funding issue and on restoring services as quickly and safely as we possibly can.

Is the Taoiseach committing to ring-fencing the funding? The providers have sent him a figure.

I have not seen it.

They are in correspondence with the Taoiseach.

In situations such as this, service providers will always send in figures. They are always subject to negotiation. There has been very energetic and hands-on contact between the HSE and the service providers endeavouring to get adult services, in particular, restored. This is important and it is something to which we are committed.

Sitting suspended at 4 p.m. and resumed at 4.20 p.m.
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