Mother and Baby Homes Inquiries

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 3 December 2020

Thursday, 3 December 2020

Ceisteanna (90)

Martin Browne

Ceist:

90. Deputy Martin Browne asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth his views on concerns that survivors of an institution (details supplied) and their relatives regarding the possibility that unmarked graves and remains may remain at the site; if consideration will be given to enabling digs to take place on land around the site considering the owner of land is willing to allow that; the status of the progress being made relating to the forthcoming report and the data contained within the report of the commission of investigation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40772/20]

Freagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Martin Browne

Survivors of Sean Ross Abbey and their relatives are concerned that there may be unmarked graves and remains at the site that have not been located or identified. Will the Minister give consideration to enabling digs to take place on land around the site? The owner of Sean Ross is willing to allow that. Will the Minister also provide me with the progress being made relating to the forthcoming report of the commission of investigation on how data contained within it will be dealt with?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I appreciate this is a deeply personal and sensitive issue for the former residents of Sean Ross mother and baby home, their family members and supporters. The Deputy has raised this issue with me on several occasions and I am happy to continue to liaise with him on it.

The investigation of burial arrangements of persons who died while resident in mother and baby homes was a key focus in the terms of reference given to the statutory commission of investigation. We already know from the commission's interim reports that it dedicated significant time and effort to advancing its investigations into these matters.

There is a designated child burial site in the grounds of the institution in question. The commission has reported it was made aware of concerns about this burial ground and decided to undertake a geophysical study and subsequently a test excavation of the site.

The results of this excavation were being examined at the time of publication of the fifth interim report. The commission confirmed it would comment further on these matters in the final report. As I outlined in my reply to Deputy Funchion earlier, I received the commission's final report on 30 October and I will publish it in the week of 11 January.

I am sure that the Deputy can understand that I cannot get into specific details in advance of the report's publication.

Once the report is published I am happy to meet directly with the Deputy to discuss those particular chapters of the report relevant to that institution. I am happy to engage subsequently with groups representing survivors. I have spoken to at least one person representing survivors' groups but I am happy to engage further once the report is published and we can discuss on the basis of what the commission has found.

Deputy Martin Browne

I appreciate that. Some of the residents feel very let down about the lack of engagement on the treatment of their data. We have been giving the Minister an opportunity to speak to survivors and it has now been five weeks. The process needs to be completed quickly. The Minister has given a date to Deputy Funchion. Now that the report has been submitted he must not make the mistake of thinking it is all over. Many of the details of this sorry saga are still hidden from us. Survivors of Shan Ross and their families are concerned about locating graves there that have not yet been identified, if the owner of the land in question is willing to allow digs. I appreciate departmental digs have taken place but the survivors are adamant there are more plots on the site and they want to identify them and, if they are there, to bring those names into this also. Will the Minister give the go ahead for these digs? I spoke to the Taoiseach, who said he would speak to the Minister about commissioning another dig.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

It is important that we get the report out and make decisions on anything that happens next as a result of receiving the report. I have committed to engaging directly with the Deputy and with groups he feels should be involved, even prior to the report. I do not know whether the Deputy made specific contact to get me to speak to survivors but I am happy to do so. I have met a significant number of survivors over the past number of weeks and at least one representative of groups from Shan Ross. I am happy to do more. With regard to this being all over, I absolutely do not consider the publication of the report as the end of this matter. We have a large body of work to do on legislation, policy and the long-term treatment of survivors, specifically with regard to mother and baby homes but also on the wider issue of legacy. The statement the Government put out in late October listed many of the issues that need to be addressed in the context of legacy. There is a lot of work still to do and I look forward to my involvement in progressing as much of it as I can within the Department.

Deputy Martin Browne

I appreciate the offer the Minister has made to meet me and other groups who have not already been met. I do not doubt his commitment to it. In reality, some of the groups, particularly survivors of Shan Ross, say even on this issue of commissioning a new dig there has been no engagement, or very little engagement with them. That is all they are asking for. Will somebody in the Department or the Department of the Taoiseach let them know whether they are flying against the wind with regard to a new dig? Please do not leave them hanging. I ask the Minister to get in touch which Shan Ross survivors again and let the group know whether the Government will commission a new dig and see whether there are new plots on the site.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I am happy to engage with them prior to the publication of the report if the Deputy wants. I will not be able to give a commitment on a new dig until after the report is published because it is important to see what the report says. A very extensive piece of the report is specifically on Shan Ross and I do not want to give out bits of it. I do not think it is appropriate to do that to survivors or anybody. We will get the report and the Deputy and I can go through those sections in detail, and I can also go through the sections in detail with survivors, and we can make relevant decisions on the basis of the knowledge we will have then.