I have to announce to the House that owing to the lamented death since we last met of Senator the Earl of Mayo, one of the original members of this House, a casual vacancy has occurred, and in accordance with our Standing Orders the Seanad has got to fix the date for the holding of the election to fill this casual vacancy. The earliest date on which the election can take place cannot be less than a fortnight from this date, and it occurs to me that, in view of the uncertainty as to what the nature of our business, if any, will be, in the next two or three weeks, the most desirable form to adopt would be the precedent that we adopted on a previous occasion, that is, to say that the election will take place at the first meeting of this House held after an interval of a fortnight. If we put it that way it would not necessarily mean that I would have to convene a meeting on this day fortnight if there was nothing else to be done, but it would enable me at my discretion to leave it over for another week or fortnight.
A SEANAD VACANCY.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I move: "That the election to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Senator the Earl of Mayo be held on the first sitting of this House after the expiration of one fortnight."
I second the motion.
May I debate the question as to whether we ought to leave it in the way that the Chairman has suggested, that is, leave it open? Would it not be better to fix a date now?
CATHAOIRLEACH
The difficulty about that is the difficulty I have pointed out. It is in one sense a hardship to summon the Seanad to meet for no other purpose than for this election, because that would be over in an hour at the outside. If we have nothing else to do I think it would be a little hard to summon Senators from all parts of Ireland for an hour's work. We may have work for this day fortnight; if we have, I will convene the Seanad for that date, and the election could take place then. But supposing no work arises, it does seem a little hard on Senators to have to attend on this day fortnight for the one purpose only. Therefore, if it is left open I will undertake that Senators will get full notice of the date; I will give them at least a week's notice, so that they can make their arrangements to attend.
There are two Private Bills on the Orders of the Day that in all probability will come up for their Second Stages at the next meeting of the Seanad, and it would greatly facilitate the promoters of these Bills if they were gone on with. That might be an additional reason for an early meeting.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I will fix the election for this day fortnight, if it is the wish of the House.
This is a very important question. You are quite evidently consulting the convenience of the House, and it is a matter for debate and discussion as to what the convenience of the House is. Many Senators have to make arrangements to attend here. The election of a Senator is an important matter, and it would probably be a matter of very great importance to many Senators to know ahead the exact date for which they will have to make arrangements to be here. They would be quite willing to attend, but if they do not know the date they cannot make arrangements.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I thought I might obviate that by undertaking to give a week's notice.
But the week's notice probably will not be given for a couple of weeks, because it may be very difficult for you to know when you will have business. When the Seanad does start its business, to meet for an hour or so and discuss a little business and then not meet again for a fortnight, three weeks or a month, will not at all create a good impression in the country as to the way it conducts its business. We ought to be here to do business whether the business is here or not, and we ought not to be always saying that we will not attend unless there is business for us to do. The Government ought to be able to say that the Seanad meets on a certain day. It is not a good thing for the Seanad to create the impression that we will attend only when we know a long way ahead that there will be business for us, and I think we ought to start this Session with the idea that we shall meet on certain days. I do not think it will create a good impression to say: "Fix the date of the election and we will be here for it, no matter what happens." I suggest that it will meet the convenience of Senators just as well to fix a day now, allowing us to know a good way ahead what we have to do, and not to leave it over, get a week's notice, and have to make other arrangements.
CATHAOIRLEACH
It is really a choice of evils. I am not sure that the House does not suffer more in public opinion by meeting, disposing of one solitary transaction and adjourning in half an hour than by having detached meetings. It is a question of give and take.
As long as we do whatever is put in front of us we are doing our duty.
You have made that provision before, and whenever there was any business you certainly did summon us. I do not think we should depart from that now. If any business comes up we will be here. I take it that the co-option of a Senator is not a matter of transcendental importance, that the ordinary business of the Seanad is much more important. If there is any business to be done we will be here this day fortnight. I think that that is eminently reasonable and desirable. You could read into Senator Jameson's remarks the suggestion that there will be a large House the next day because there will be the co-option of a Senator. That is more in accordance with the procedure of a board of guardians than of a Senate, and I feel that the suggestion made by you, Sir, is one that the House should adopt. It has been our constant practice; I think it is a practice that has resulted in eminent good and that it ought to be continued.
I am of the opinion that Senator Jameson is right in the main, that if his proposal is carried out systematically and not merely with regard to the appointment of a particular Senator, he is on the right track, and that we ought to do our business in a much more earnest way than we have been doing it hitherto. I have never approved of the rather erratic method of doing business that we have followed.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Again there are two sides to the question, because while it is very convenient for Senators living in Dublin or the vicinity to come here practically any day, it is not so convenient in the case of Senators who have to come from a considerable distance. Therefore we have really got to see, first of all, what is the greatest convenience of the greatest number, and, secondly, what is the action that is most conducive to the dignity of the House itself.
Would it not be a considerable expense to bring Senators up from outlying districts merely for an election?
I propose that the next sitting of this House be on this day fortnight.
CATHAOIRLEACH
I could not take that motion after the other has been passed. We would then be meeting this day fortnight and would have nothing to do.
The terms of the motion would preclude the election taking place on this day fortnight.
CATHAOIRLEACH
That is what I say. This day fortnight is the earliest date, under the Standing Orders, on which it could possibly be taken.
What day does the motion that has been passed give us?
CATHAOIRLEACH
It gives us the first sitting after the expiration of a fortnight from to-day.
The expiration of a fortnight means the Thursday.
CATHAOIRLEACH
It will mean that the election will not be held before this day three weeks.
Could it not be held on Thursday, March 1st?
CATHAOIRLEACH
It could, but I am taking a commonsense view. Of course we could hold it on a Sunday. I had in view the fact that we meet on Wednesdays.
But there is a Standing Order about the date of the election.
CATHAOIRLEACH
The Standing Order is that a fortnight must elapse.
Then no election can be held before to-morrow fortnight?
CATHAOIRLEACH
The election can be held this day fortnight under the Standing Order. The resolution has been passed in precisely the same terms as that passed on the last occasion. Do you wish to move anything about meeting this day fortnight?
I do not think that the House should now adjourn, after its first meeting, for such a long time as three weeks. I think there ought to be a sitting of the House within two weeks.
CATHAOIRLEACH
If any business comes in that I think would justify a sitting on this day fortnight I will convene it for this day fortnight, or even for this day week. I have power to do that.
For instance, it is my intention to ask leave to introduce a Bill, but I would not like to argue that that would justify a sitting. There will be two Private Bills, and they will take an extremely short time.
CATHAOIRLEACH
When these things come in I will see them, and if it seems to me that it would be a proper and suitable thing to convene a meeting of the Seanad I shall do so at once.
No business body with which I am connected arranges its affairs in such a way that it meets casually when some business turns up. I believe we could get through our business, and we would all be able to make our private arrangements far better if we had fixed days upon which to meet, and I think it would be a very great convenience to the Government to know that the Seanad would meet on a certain day for a certainty.
CATHAOIRLEACH
Unlike other bodies to which you refer, our difficulty is that we are dependent for our business practically entirely on the operations of another House. We have got to wait until they send us work, and the fault is not ours if we do not sit, because the work is not sent up to us from the other House. We must be reasonable in that respect, and we can hardly expect that the House, now sitting for the first time this session, is likely to send us any business within a fortnight, so that to convene a meeting for next week would, I think, place the Seanad in a false position. I want the House to be responsible for this; I do not want to take the responsibility of this on my shoulders at all. It is all the same to me, because I am one of those fortunate people who live near the city, and I can come every day in the week. In fact I would rather come. I quite enjoy it.