(Cavan) asked the Minister for Education if he has received a proposal from Cavan Vocational Education Committee to provide the common intermediate certificate course in all schools in County Cavan, including Arva and Glangevlin, as from the 1st September next; and when he proposes to authorise the Committee to proceed with the necessary arrangements.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Common Intermediate Certificate.
38.
Cavan Vocational Education Committee has informed me that it intends to provide the common intermediate certificate course in all schools in County Cavan including Arva and Glangevlin as from 1st September. Certain amendments of its plans in regard to Arva and Glangevlin have now come to hand and are being considered.
The committee has asked me to meet a deputation to discuss this matter.
(Cavan): Is the Minister aware that Cavan Vocational Education Committee consider it of the utmost importance that the common intermediate certificate course should be provided in Arva and Glangevlin so that the same standard of education may be provided in these schools as in the other schools in the county? With that end in view, the committee submitted proposals to the Minister on 16th May last because they were notified that the educational grant for the county had been reduced by £4,587. The committee asked the Minister to receive a deputation to discuss the provision of adequate accommodation and teachers in Arva and Glangevlin. From that day to this, the Minister has not communicated with the committee or intimated his willingness to receive a deputation.
I do not wish to be too dogmatic about this but I think the Deputy is not correct in saying the last communication from the committee was in May and that there has been no further communication between the committee and my Department. Further, the figure quoted by the Deputy refers, I think, to the deficit which would occur in the committee's finances if they made no adjustments in their proposals. They have been notified as to the amount that would be available and have been asked to arrange their plans and services for the financial year to come within that. It does not follow automatically that unless they get the additional money, they cannot provide these services. They have to decide their priorities. This is a function of the committee having regard to their knowledge of their own locality.
In regard to the two particular schools, they are, I think, two-room schools. When they were originally sanctioned, I understand arrangements were made at that time that they would serve only as first year post-primary schools because of the proximity of other schools under another committee but geographically in the same region. It is doubtful if a satisfactory post-primary course could be provided in schools of that size. Therefore, it is not at all clear that the provision of courses of the standard required cannot be arranged by the committee with the facilities available to them.
(Cavan): Does the Minister agree he was asked as far back as 16th May to receive a deputation to discuss this matter and that he has not received the deputation or even said he will? I would suggest to the Minister he is incorrect in saying that there is not a cut in the grant compared with last year, even without making provision for the common intermediate certificate course, of £4,587. If the committee are to carry on, they will not alone not be able to proceed with any additional courses but will have to cut back their existing expenditure to the tune of £4,587.
It is a very simple way out for people who are asked to cut their cloth according to their measure to say: "We cannot do any more unless we get more money." The more practical approach, and the one that would be desired by the general public, is that they would have a good, hard look at what has been expended, to see if it is really necessary. If they have decided on priorities, are there things they want to provide which they think are higher on the priority list than what they have provided or can they provide what they have been doing on a more economical basis? My experience is that committees who have approached it in that way have found—sometimes to their surprise— that they can do considerably more than appeared to them to be possible at the beginning.
(Cavan): Surely the Minister is not suggesting it is possible to give a more extensive course of education in 1966 than in 1965 on less money?
This has proved possible in some places.
(Cavan): Will the Minister receive a deputation even at this late stage to discuss the matter so that the common intermediate certificate course in all schools, including Arva and Glangevlin, may get under way on 1st September?
I have made it a practice on principle not to refuse to receive a deputation.
Hear, hear.
However, I feel the immediate problem of the committee here is one of arrangements locally in Arva and Glangevlin in regard to accommodation of teachers and that the CEO is the man best qualified to make these arrangements. If they find it impossible to do so, I will be prepared to meet them.
(Cavan): Could the Minister say when?
I would like to see the effort made locally first.
(Cavan): It is a question of money. If we cannot get the money, we cannot give the service.
If the approach is that unless they get more money they cannot do anything additional, I do not regard that as going into the problem properly at all. Committees which approached it on a practical basis along the lines I mentioned earlier found it was possible to do this.
(Cavan): It is apparent the Minister has at his disposal some information which we have not. If he wants to co-operate with the committee, I suggest he should meet the deputation and put at their disposal the information he has which enabled other committees to do what I consider is the impossible.