Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Feb 1969

Vol. 238 No. 10

Export Promotion (Amendment) Bill, 1969: Second Stage.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Colley)

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The first and most important purpose of the Bill is to make provision for further grants to Córas Tráchtála to enable that body to continue the work of promoting, assisting and developing Irish exports.

The Export Promotion Act, 1959, under which Córas Tráchtála were established, fixed at £1 million the total amount of grants which might be made to the board out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas. This sum was raised to £2.5 million by the Export Promotion (Amendment) Act, 1963 and to £4.5 million by the Export Promotion (Amendment) Act, 1967. Payments to Córas Tráchtála to date out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas total £4,171,885 leaving a balance of only £328,115 unissued from the existing statutory limit of £4.5 million.

With the increasing pace of expenditure on export promotion, it is necessary to ask the Oireachtas to provide for a further £4.5 million to meet the board's requirements for the next few years. The Bill proposes to raise to £9 million the aggregate amount of grants that may be made to the board.

Since they were established as a limited liability company in 1951 and as a statutory board in 1959, Córas Tráchtála have played an important part in the development of exports particularly exports of industrial goods through the provision of a wide range of aids and services for exporters. The demand for these services has been increasing year by year, and the increase in the demands by exporters on Córas Tráchtála has been extremely steep over the past few years. This has been reflected in the increase in exports, particularly of industrial goods. Since 1963, for example, total exports have risen from £199 million to £365 million an increase of more than 80 per cent. Industrial exports in the same period more than doubled, rising from £67 million to an estimated £167 million.

The aids and services made available by Córas Tráchtála are kept under review to ensure that the services most urgently needed by exporters are provided in the manner and in the measure that will be most useful. Recently a whole range of additional aids and services was introduced to encourage greater market diversification and, as far as possible, to reduce dependence on the British market.

Córas Tráchtála must continue to play a vital role in the development of the national economy. To do so they must have adequate funds at their disposal. It is for this purpose that I recommend provision for an additional £4.5 million. The actual provision to be made in each financial year out of this amount will be included in the Vote for my Department which will come before the Dáil in the ordinary way.

The principal function of Córas Tráchtála as provided by the Export Promotion Act, 1959 is "to promote, assist and develop exports". As this statutory function refers only to export of goods, the various aids and services which Córas Tráchtála provide for exporters are not available to exporters of services. It is considered desirable that the aids and services provided by the board should be available for design and planning services, the work on the rendering of which is carried out in the State in connection with engineering and constructional works executed outside the State. The second purpose of the Bill, therefore, is to provide enabling power for the board to assist architects and engineers practising in the State in relation to the rendering of these services for overseas clients. It will, of course, be a matter for the board to consider how best they can use this additional power. No doubt they will have in mind that an Irish consultant, architect or engineer working on an overseas project could influence the purchase of Irish goods and materials for that project by making positive recommendations to the client that Irish goods of the required quality and price could be obtained or by specifying goods to Irish standard. At the very least, a consultant could bring Irish materials to the attention of a client, contractor etc. There would, of course, be a direct flow of income into the country in the form of fees in respect of overseas design and planning services and these fees could become a not insignificant item in our balance of payments.

It is with confidence that I recommend to the Dáil the making of provision for additional funds for Córas Tráchtála for some years ahead and the provision for assistance by the board of design and planning services for overseas projects.

Mr. L'Estrange

We on this side of the House welcome this Bill. As far as we are concerned we have, since the foundation of the State, welcomed any Bill that can help to promote, assist, or develop exports, give employment to our people at home and raise the standard of living. We are glad to see that the amount of money for Córas Tráchtála has been raised steadily until now the Minister is seeking a further £4.5 millions. We know that in this country we live by our exports. Unfortunately, if we cannot provide employment for our boys and girls they have to emigrate but if we can encourage greater exports this will not happen. We are also glad to note the increase in exports which has taken place since 1963. Some of us, indeed, are very glad to note the huge increase that has taken place even since 1947. I remember that our total exports in 1932, despite all that was then said, were £36 million and after 16 years, despite the fact that the prices of out exports to Britain and other countries doubled because of the war, total exports in 1947 were still only £38 million or £39 million. Indeed, were it not for the fact that prices had increased we might only have been exporting £30 million or £35 million worth of goods. We know the huge increase in our exports which took place immediately after that. As far as we are concerned we want to give full credit to the present Minister for Industry and Commerce for what he has done over the past few years and for what he is doing.

The Minister said that:

The aids and services made available by Córas Tráchtála are kept under review to ensure that the services most urgently needed by exporters are provided in the manner and in the measure that will be most useful. Recently a whole range of additional aids and services was introduced to encourage greater market diversification and, as far as possible, to reduce dependence on the British market.

We welcome that because if we look at our trade returns with many European and East-European countries we find that in some cases we are buying twice, three times and sometimes four or five times, as much from them as they are buying from us. We believe that a greater effort should be made through our embassies or whatever contacts we have abroad to sell more of our produce to those countries. Many of us believe that in our embassies we should have more trained, aggressive young salesmen to promote the sale of our exports. I am one of those who are inclined to condemn what is happening in our embassies today. We are too inclined to imitate the great Powers who have diplomats attending various functions and it would be much better if we had these trained, promotional salesmen who would use every opportunity to promote the sale of our produce. I am also glad to see that in this Bill provision is made for assisting architects and engineers practising in the State in relation to the rendering of services for overseas clients. Any money spent in that way will be money well spent.

Sir Anthony Esmonde

Córas Tráchtála has performed a pretty good function for this country but I have some slight criticism to make in that from my own experience I found that, in the past anyway, they were more concerned with huge export projects rather than with smaller industries which were likely to develop, which were based on Irish raw materials and which would build up not very big quantities of exports but a multiplication of exports. I felt for a long time—and I think I am pushing an open door here with the present Minister—that it is the smaller type of industry with wider diversification which is going to be more beneficial to our economy than some of the gigantic attempts made in the past by the Minister's predecessor, the exTaoiseach, when he was Minister for Industry and Commerce, to turn this country into a sort of industrial United States of America, which, of course, would be quite impossible.

I welcome the change of policy on the part of the Minister. I also welcome his statement regarding the diversification of our exports so that we would not be left entirely dependent on the British market. That, of course, is long overdue but, unfortunately, we waited until we were kicked twice in the teeth by the British before this definite action or policy was brought into effect. At one time the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement was thought to be the be all and the end all of our export problems and I am sure the activities of Córas Tráchtála were directed along those lines. I welcome the fact that the Minister has now recognised that we must seek other export outlets and seek them as soon as possible so that we will not be entirely dependent on one market. I think that if personal opinions were expressed in the House one would find agreement on this from all sides.

It might be helpful to Deputies as a whole if the Minister for Industry and Commerce, when replying, gave us some details about the diversification of exports. I know that there is a considerable drive to export to the United States which is a market of enormous potential and which as far as we are concerned is practically untapped. I know too, that there are attempts being made, although there are difficulties in the way, to export to the European Economic Community. If I were to direct my remarks to the European would be here most of the day because we have been led to believe that all sorts of wonderful things will be forthcoming arising from our entrance to this great purchasing body and which, of course, has not come to fruition.

I should like the Minister to tell us the type of export he has in mind. In my constituency of Wexford we have a small industry manufacturing Aran sweaters. It was started by an American. Unfortunately, he returned to the United States because there was not enough money in it for him. It was taken over by an Irishman and the exports are now going to the United States free of tariff. I cite this case as an example of the type of export that can be beneficial and the kind of export which removes us from dependence on the British market. Perhaps the Minister, when he comes to reply, would give us a brief résumé as to what his intentions are. I know he is very interested in the small industries project. He told us at the Wexford Chamber of Commerce the other day that this project is being extended to our area. As Wexford generally gets everything last, I take it that means that the project will be extended to the whole country.

Mr. J. O'Leary

This Bill will have far-reaching effects within the next few years on our drive to increase exports and also on our drive to attract industries to this country. In the 1959 Act, under which Córas Tráchtála was established, a sum of £1 million was made available for grants. In the 1953 Act it was raised to £2½ million and in the 1967 Act it was raised to £4½ million. It is gratifying to note that it is now proposed to provide a further £4½ million to meet the board's requirements over the next few years. This is surely an indication of the intention of the Minister and the Government and, indeed, all concerned, to make an all-out drive during the next few years to promote sales abroad and attract more industries to this country.

From my own small dealings with Córas Tráchtála I know they are doing a tremendous job. At the moment they are carrying out surveys abroad to assist a few people in South Kerry who are interested in starting industries on their own. It is a great advantage to these to have an organisation like Córas Tráchtála to carry out detailed surveys so that such people will know, before they commence operations, what the markets are likely to be. Then, when they get the green light, they can start their industries with confidence.

We have heard in recent times a certain amount of criticism of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement. As far as we are concerned in Kerry, we have known nothing but good to come out of this Agreement. In my own town of Killarney we had a major industry started there within the last 18 months. This industry came to Killarney directly as a result of the Free Trade Area Agreement. There are at the moment a number of industrialists interested in establishing industries in South Kerry because of the facilities available to them following on this agreement.

I should like to compliment the Minister on the initiative he has taken with regard to small industrial projects. In outlying areas these are the only industries which will keep the people at home, develop and re-animate the areas. Recently we had inquiries from industrialists but we were, unfortunately, not able to make available to these industrialists all the female labour they required. That is a problem in many areas. It is difficult to get sufficient girls for factory work, even in areas where the ratio of male to female labour would be fifty-fifty. We have no difficulty in supplying all the male labour required.

Again, I should like to compliment the Minister, the Industrial Development Authority, Foras Tionscal and Córas Tráchtála for the particular interest they are showing in Kerry.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

It is only right that we should express our appreciation of the tremendous work Córas Tráchtála are doing in furthering the progress of our exports. The success of that body, particularly in recent times, is indeed very striking. It is a tribute to the enthusiasm, efficiency and dedication of the officers of the board. There is no doubt whatever that, despite what might be said about economic development and economic expansion, and despite the fact that approaches to economic development and economic expansion may differ from Party to Party, there is one aspect on which there is absolute agreement, not merely here but throughout the country, and that is the absolute need for an expansion of exports if this country is to survive as an economic entity.

Córas Tráchtála, like other State bodies, comes in for a good deal of criticism, much of it unfounded, but the fact that our exports have now reached a figure of £365 million, or £1 million a day, is a very significant development. Perhaps the Minister, as Minister responsible for Industry and Commerce and particularly for the promotion of exports, would be able to assist Córas Tráchtála in trying to break into new markets by making more frequent trips abroad. I am not in any way advocating that he should go traipsing over Europe —I do not know his personal view on this—but seriously, I have seen the approach made by the Northern Ireland Government in Britain on the matter of exports where they make an all-out effort in a particular centre. For instance in April this year there will be an Ulster week in Birmingham and later on in Sheffield. In order to assist Córas Tráchtála to break into new markets with our exports I think the Minister should be present for the initial effort.

There is much talk about diversification of production. On yesterday's paper I read where Mr. Ivor Kenny of the Irish Management Institute expressed concern about the lack of diversification and technology in Irish industry and said this called for serious concern. Just as there is need for diversification of production at home there is need for diversification of markets but while it may be important to seek markets other than Britain so that we would not have all our eggs in one basket, we must not forget that the British market is our most important market and that there is still considerable potential there for industrial exports.

Personally, I have had some contact with the officials of Córas Tráchtála in seeking advice for industrialists in my constituency and I can say that the service provided by Córas Tráchtála is absolutely spot-on. Some months ago an industrialist who was going to Sweden to explore a market asked me to contact Córas Tráchtála for certain information. In five minutes, by telephone, technical information regarding customs duties and various other aspects of the trade in the country to which my friend was going, was supplied so that he was able to leave fully armed with all the facts.

I had the pleasure of visiting the Córas Tráchtála Office in Manchester and also in London and I cannot speak too highly of the tremendous sense of dedication of the officials attached to Córas Tráchtála there. From what I can gather from discussions I have had with Irish exporters the picture is the same in all the other export markets. I think anything this House can do to assist Córas Tráchtála should be done and I welcome the Bill which provides additional finance for them to enable them particularly to explore and develop new export markets. I wish the board every success in its future efforts and I am sincerely grateful to the various officials with whom I have had contact for their courtesy and the assistance they extended to me.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Dublin South-Central): I also welcome this Bill because any financial assistance we can give to Córas Tráchtála is money well spent. As other speakers have already said, the board's record has been phenomenal. We have now reached am export level of £1 million a day which is in no small measure due to the efforts of Córas Tráchtála. This is something of which we can be really proud.

As other Deputies said, we must try to diversify our exports. Over the past few years we have been running into certain difficulties as a result of the decisions of the British Government and we should try to secure markets outside Britain. I think Córas Tráchtála should, therefore, direct their attention to other countries and see how we can utilise our embassies more as trade legations. Perhaps we could send trained personnel to these embassies which already exist. They could be very easily utilised for the purpose of exploring markets and in this way Córas Tráchtála could see what potential existed for our industries in other countries.

It is very easy for big industries to start up and carry out independent research abroad but this is a different problem for small industries. Where you have industries of the £40,000, £50,000 or £60,000 magnitude, it is not so easy for them to have research done as regards the potential for them in foreign markets. I think Córas Tráchtála should pay particular attention to the needs of small industries specialising in certain products and encourage them by seeing how they can be helped to sell their goods abroad.

By and large, nobody can deny that this would be great encouragement. We all realise that it is through the expansion of industry that we hope to maintain our employment. We know there will be a gradual reduction in agricultural employment and that we must depend entirely on industry to absorb the surplus and provide employment for them. Therefore, we must seriously consider how we can expand industry, encourage new industries and new capital to the country. Córas Tráchtála is one State body that has certainly not failed in its duty to encourage new industries. I have heard them praised by any manufacturers to whom I have spoken. In the past six months I know of one company starting here and they had every praise for Córas Tráchtála and the help they gave. This concern was amazed to find that all this help was available for them. They have now started their industry and are opening very shortly. They are very pleased with the consideration they have been given.

The Minister is doing everything possible and taking a very keen interest in the small industries programme. We should carry out more research into the possibilities of diversifying our exports so as not to have all our eggs in one basket—which is too risky—and so achieve a sense of security. I know that it is difficult and expensive to initiate research abroad but, irrespective of the cost, I think the sense of security that would develop as a result would be worth while. We should try to advance along these lines. If we do fail it will not be for the want of any effort on the part of Córas Tráchtála.

Mr. Colley

I think I should start by expressing my thanks to the various Deputies who have spoken and who have practically unanimously, I think, stated their view of the activities of Córas Tráchtála in a favourable manner. I must say I concur in that view. I have said in this House before that I think they are doing an excellent job. Of course, like anyone else, one could find flaws with some of their activities and say they could be improved. It would be strange if that were not so. But, by and large, they are doing an excellent job and many other countries envy us because we have available to our exporters the type of expertise and dedication which we get from most of our employees in the field.

In considering this whole matter of our exports and the spectacular achievements which are to the credit of Córas Tráchtála, one should not lose sight of the fact that the basic cause of this increase is the activities of the exporters themselves. They would probably be the first to tell us that their activities have been very considerably aided and enhanced by the assistance they have received from Córas Tráchtála.

In moving the Second Reading I mentioned—and a number of Deputies have referred to it—the necessity for diversification of our markets. I do not think it is necessary for me to dwell on that necessity. It is clear to everyone concerned that for the foreseeable future the British market will be our major market. That is a fact which everyone must accept. It is also clear that to the extent that we can diversify our exports into markets other than Britain we are insuring ourselves against the risk of damage in that major market.

I should not like it to be thought that this was a recent development or a recent realisation, or that it was only recently that we first wakened up, so to speak, to the necessity for the diversification. That is not so. Efforts have been made for many years to diversify our markets. Deputies will appreciate that, having regard to the nature of our economy, where agricultural exports form a considerable portion of our exports and where markets other than the traditional markets for our agricultural produce are very difficult to come by, to a great extent the diversification open to us is in the field of industrial exports. In that regard I might, perhaps, give some figures taken from the annual report of Córas Tráchtála, to give some idea of what has been going on in the past in regard to diversification. I am quoting now from page 10 of the annual report for 1967:

Notwithstanding the slight increase in the percentage of total exports going to Britain and Northern Ireland, the long-term trend has been towards higher exports to third markets of goods other than live animals. Between 1957 and 1967, all such exports (including those from Shannon) increased from £76.9 million to £264.2 million. Exports to Britain and Northern Ireland advanced from £53 million to £163 million, or by 207.5 per cent; those going to other markets were up from £23.9 million to 323.4 per cent.

I mention this merely to show that this trend has been going on. We have been endeavouring to encourage it for a long time. The recent imposition by the British of the deposit scheme underlines even further the necessity for diversification and, in that connection, Córas Tráchtála have announced special measures to further the diversification process. These measures include the appointment of a special representative of Córas Tráchtála in Eastern Europe, and the appointment of additional representatives in other countries, representatives who would specialise in certain sectors of industry, particularly in engineering where we think there is a good field for development of our exports to places other than Britain especially, perhaps, Germany and the United States. A special trade mission to Australia organised by Córas Tráchtála is about to set out, if it has not already gone. I think it is about now it is going. I am confident that the result will be well worth-while. Special measures are being taken to improve and strengthen our participation in trade fairs abroad, and improved grants are made available now to encourage travel by exporters to develop markets in places other than Britain and Northern Ireland. These are just some of the things that are being done to help the diversification process. I would remind the House that we are trammelled to the extent that most of the diversification we can do is confined to industrial exports.

Another point made was the necessity for assistance for small exporters or small industrialists who might be able to export. That is something with which I agree entirely. Obviously the owner of a small firm who has not been in the export market is presented with quite a lot of difficulty if he decides to go into the export market. He has not the resources available to enable him to carry out a market survey. Sometimes he does not even know how to go about the job. Despite that, a number of small firms have succeeded in exporting successfully. Deputies will be aware that CT have embarked on a special campaign to get at industrialists, large and small, who have not been exporting in the past but who seem to be capable of exporting, to do so. It was roughly estimated that there were about 1,100 firms potentially capable of exporting who were not exporting. In that connection, Córas Tráchtála have been organising meetings with these people in different parts of the country.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

May I ask the Minister is there any intention to establish a section in Córas Tráchtála parallel with the small industries section in the IDA to have specific care for small industries which might have an export potential?

Mr. Colley

In fact, Córas Tráchtála is tied in with that scheme in the sense that there is an advisory committee with a small industries programme on which Córas Tráchtála are represented and, where it appears in connection with any project under that programme that it has a potential for export, Córas Tráchtála take over that aspect and the advice available to Córas Tráchtála is given to the applicant. It has been so designed as to bring in Córas Tráchtála where they can operate.

I was saying that Córas Tráchtála have been holding quite a number of meetings round the country with different firms. I understand, in fact, they have had 400 firms represented at these area meetings; 160 firms have been interviewed and there has been follow-up again on that. It is hoped to secure most of them as new exporters this year—people who will be exporting for the first time. A number of these are, of course, small firms.

I should like to make it clear that Córas Tráchtála has a special care for new exporters and for small exporters. Within its field of operations within this country, it certainly gives a special care to new and small exporters. The idea that they do not cater especially for the small exporter could arise from their activities abroad. Where they have to expend money abroad on, say, trade fairs and promotions of that kind, very often there are some suitable ways in which they could do this which they do not do solely for the reason that another approach by them would yield greater results, in their view, and, of course, the amount of money available to them is limited. The more money they get, the more they can spend. They have a budget— not an ungenerous one, I think. Within that, they must choose the kind of promotions that will in their view yield the greatest results. That means that they have on occasions to exclude promotions which would yield some results, and are good in themselves, but are not as good as the ones they pick. This sometimes leads to a mistaken impression that they are not interested in that kind of promotion. If that happens to include a number of small exporters, the idea might get abroad that they were not interested in small exporters but, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

Some reference has been made to the role of our embassies in connection with exports and trade orientation. Of course, the position will differ from embassy to embassy. I must say that my own experience is that, in practically all of these cases, there is a very considerable emphasis on trade. A very considerable effort is made to assist the development of our exports. I think that the picture of any of our embassies being concerned solely with matters of high politics and cocktail parties is an unfair picture and just is not true. Of necessity, they have to indulge in a certain amount of that: it is part of the reason they are there. My impression is that all of them may be more effective than others in their activities. This may be for purely personal reasons with people who operate in the respective embassies. I should also like to make clear that, for a number of years, all the recruits to the Department of External Affairs get special training in connection with trade and, indeed, spend some time in factories around the country before they are sent abroad.

Deputy Sir Anthony Esmonde said one thing to which I should like to reply, just to keep the record straight. He referred to my personal interest in small industries, which is true. I have a great personal interest in this project because I have great belief in its efficacy for the future and for our particular problems. He went on from there to read into this a change of policy from previous years and thought that the emphasis now is on small industry and is being taken away from large industry. I want to refute that. It is not so. What has happened is that we are putting an emphasis on small industry which was not there but we are not by any means reducing our interest in large industry: we cannot afford to do that. Our efforts to develop larger scale industry are, in fact, being stepped up, as well as, what may be regarded as somewhat new, a greater stress on small industry but there is no question of changing our policy with regard to larger scale industry.

I do not know that there is any other point to which the House will expect me to give a reply. I thank the Deputies who have spoken for their remarks in regard to Córas Tráchtála.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.