Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Oct 1977

Vol. 300 No. 3

Convention of Lomé: Motions.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. O'Kennedy)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the Agreement on the Accession of the Democratic Republic of Sao Tomé and Principe to the ACP-EEC Convention of Lomé and the Final Act related to that Agreement, signed on 28 March 1977, copies of which have been laid before the Dáil.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to address myself at this stage to all four motions. Motions Nos. 21, 22 and 23 concern the accession agreements under which three states become parties to the Convention of Lomé which was originally signed on 28 February, 1975, between the European Community its member states and 46 States of Africa, the Caribbean and the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

Articles 89 and 90 of the Convention of Lomé set out the conditions under which states may become parties to the convention after it has entered into force.

Article 90 of the Convention stipulates that any request for accession to the convention by a state whose economic structure and production are comparable with those of the ACP States shall require approval by the ACP-EEC Council of Ministers, the body responsible for administering the convention. Such a state may then accede to the convention by concluding an agreement with the European Economic Community. On 14th July, 1976, the ACP-EEC Council of Ministers approved the requests for accession to the convention from Sao Tomé and Principe, Cape Verde and Papua New Guinea. Agreements concluded between the Community and these three states were signed subject to ratification, in Brussels on 28th March, 1977.

Article 89 of the convention provides that a country or territory to which part 4 of the Treaty of Rome applies—that is overseas countries and territories—and which becomes independent and requests accession to the convention shall, with the approval of the ACP-EEC Council of Ministers, accede to the convention by depositing an instrument of accession with the Secretariat of the Council of the European Communities. Such states are not required to conclude agreements with the Community in order to accede to the convention. Following approval of their accession by the ACP-EEC Council of Ministers on 14th July, 1976, Surinam, the Seychelles and the Comoro State acceded to the convention in accordance with Article 89, on 16th July, 1976, 27th August, 1976 and 10th September, 1976 respectively.

Dáil approval is necessary to enable three accession agreements concluded in accordance with Article 90 of the convention to be ratified by Ireland. Dáil approval is also necessary in the case of the agreement of 28th March, 1977 amending the Internal Agreement on the Financing and Administration of Community Aid signed on 11th July, 1975 which makes the necessary provision to enable the states which accede under both Articles 89 and 90 to benefit from the financial measures in the convention.

The Lomé Convention, which came into force 18 months ago, was a decisive step towards a new and more equitable relationship between a number of industrialised and developing countries and has been rightly acclaimed as a model of its kind. It is the widest agreement that has been negotiated between such countries, both in the areas it covers and in the number of participants, and its relevance and value to developing countries is confirmed by the desire of these states to accede to it. By introducing a number of new elements into Community/Third World relations it sets an example for regional agreements between industrialised and developing countries.

The trade provisions of the convention provide duty-free access into the Community, without quotas or quantitative restrictions for all ACP industrial and agricultural products, except for agricultural products that fall under the common agricultural policy for which special arrangements have been made. The important aspect of this concession is that it does not involve reciprocity on the part of the ACP States.

The scheme for the stabilisation of export earnings, known as Stabex, is perhaps the most novel feature of the convention. The purpose of the scheme is to compensate the ACP States in the event of a fall in their export earnings from a number of basic products. Stabex, therefore, makes it possible to forecast and plan on the basis of the earnings which the ACP countries can expect from their exports of these products. 375 million European units of account have been allocated to the scheme for the duration of the convention, divided into five annual instalments of 75 million European units of account or approximately £49 million. The transfers take the form either of interest-free loans, which are repaid by the recipient states when certain conditions have been fulfilled relating to the increase in their export earnings or, in the case of the 24 poorest countries, they take the form of grants.

For 1975, transfers totalling 73 million European units of account were made to 18 ACP countries, covering nine products. So far, 31 million units of account have been transferred to 11 ACP States for 1976, covering 13 products, including cocoa, coffee, tea, bananas, cotton and palm oil.

The industrial co-operation provisions aim at facilitating the industrialisation of the ACP States, in particular through the transfer and adaptation of technology. Partnership between European and ACP industry in order to promote industrialisation in the ACP States is fostered through the Committee for Industrial Co-operation and the Centre for Industrial Development established under the convention.

The ACP/EEC Council of Ministers and ACP/EEC Consultative Assembly of Parliamentarians enable the provisions adopted in the Lomé Convention to be managed jointly. A particularly valuable forum, I believe, is the Consultative Assembly, which enables parliamentarians of the Nine, through their contacts with their colleagues in the ACP States, to bring to their national parliaments, a greater awareness of the problems of the Third World.

It will be recalled that the main purpose of the financial and technical co-operation provisions in the Lomé Convention is to correct structural imbalances in the various economic sectors of the ACP countries and thereby to assist their economic and social development. This is obviously an objective of fundamental importance. A total amount of 3,390 million European units of account or approximately £2,200 million has been provided for this purpose in the European Development Fund established by the convention and from the resources of the European Investment Bank. The co-operation financed by the fund is mainly in the agriculture, industry and infrastructure sectors.

The convention gives the ACP States a crucial role in determining the aid to be granted and in administering it. Thus indicative programmes of aid are drawn up by mutual agreement between the Commission and the ACP States and these are later submitted for opinion to the member states. The ACP States are also closely involved in the appraisal and execution of individual projects within the programmes of aid. The new role of the beneficiary countries in the aid relationships is highlighted by the fact that from the conception of an aid programme to its ultimate execution it is the ACP State which has the final say on the way its allocation of money is spent.

The sense of partnership which pervades the Lomé Convention is also evident in the provisions which encourage regional co-operation among ACP States and which seek to lay the foundation for increased inter-developing country trade and co-operation. The convention permits initiatives to be taken to meet needs not always catered for by large aid programmes. One such initiative is the creation of an experimental programme of micro-projects which will benefit small local communities. In this scheme, which will cost 20 million European units of account, assistance is given to local activities such as the building of small dams, bridges, wells, silos, dispensaries, clinics and so on.

In effecting the transfer of resources from the Community to the ACP States, which is the primary purpose of the convention, opportunities of a commercial nature arise. Most of the work associated with development projects under the European Development Fund will be carried out by organisations from the Community member states although every effort will be made, and this is consistent with the philosophy of the EDF, to involve local firms. To date, three Irish firms of consulting engineers have been awarded contracts from the EDF. The total value of these contracts amounts to £300,000. The operation of the EDF is still at a comparatively early stage and this sum represents only a portion of the return which I expect and which I and my Department are making every effort to realise.

This then is, very briefly, the Convention of Lomé to which Papua New Guinea, Cape Verde and Sao Tomé and Principe are acceding. The accession agreements which are the subject of the motions before the Dáil are similar in type. They provide for the application of the provisions of the convention to the three acceding states and set out transitional arrangements and timetables. Explanatory memoranda have been made available to the Members of the House.

In regard to Motion No. 22 the Community has drawn up an internal agreement amending the Internal Agreement on the Financing and Administration of Community Aid—which was signed on 11th July, 1975— so that the three new states will be in a position to benefit fully from these provisions of the convention, while at the same time ensuring—in accordance with Articles 89 and 90—that the advantages presently accruing to the original ACP States will not be adversely affected by the new accessions.

This amending internal agreement embodies two technical adjustments in the administration of the European Development Fund. The first results from the fact that three former Overseas Countries and Territories—Surinam, the Seychelles and the Comoro State—which were associated with the Lomé Convention have recently become independent and have now acceded to the convention as ACP States. Consequently the amending internal agreement provides for the transfer of an appropriate amount from the Overseas Countries and Territories sub-head of the European Development Fund to the ACP sub-head. Obviously, this transaction which involves an amount of 31.6 million European units of account does not affect the overall volume of Community aid. The second change is more substantive and provides for an increase of 22.5 million European units of account in the ACP sub-head to take into account the accessions of Papua New Guinea, Sao Tóme and Principe, and Cape Verde.

It is intended that this latter amount will be partly offset by a sum of 13 million European units of account which had originally been intended for the French Overseas Departments but which, because of certain subsequent adjustments, was never actually disbursed. Therefore, the residual amount to be contributed by the member states of the Community is 9.5 million European units of account of which the Irish share, at 0.6 per cent, amounts to 57,000 European units of account or approximately £37,000 at the current value of the unit of account, which is 65p. While the overall amount for the new ACP states will be committed during the life-time of the Convention —that is, before 1st March, 1980—it is expected that the actual expenditure will be spread over a period of five or six years, commencing in 1978.

The Lomé Convention is significant in that it has shown that, through good-will and co-operation, changes can be made in the present inequitable relationship between the industrialised and developing world. Debate on the creation of a new international economic order conducted in an atmosphere of confrontation is futile. It is clear that the process of achieving a more equitable world order depends on the co-operation of all countries.

We live in a period when the relationship between the industrialised and developing world is under examination. This is not a debate that we can afford to ignore. It is not enough to say that the problems of the Third World are not of our making. In a world of increasing interdependence yet one with continuing massive disparities of wealth and living standards there is a moral obligation on all countries to ensure an equitable distribution of the world's resources.

Aside from the moral obligation to help the underprivileged areas of the world it should be evident that it is in our own interest that a more balanced relationship should emerge. If the fundamental restructuring of the world economic order which is required is not achieved by dialogue and in agreement, then we are heading for a confrontation which will indeed fundamentally alter the present world order, but at what cost, and to whose benefit? The improvement in the atmosphere surrounding discussion of economic relations between developed and developing countries which has taken place, has enabled some modest progress to be made. By successfully negotiating and implementing the Lomé Convention, the European Community has set an example in this area in which we can take pride. In doing so, however, we should not be complacent about the problems that remain.

Ireland, as a relatively privileged member of the International Economic Community is conscious of its obligation to help to alleviate the problems of the underprivileged of the Third World. Within the Community, Ireland contributed actively to the elaboration of the Lomé Convention. We will continue to support and advocate the adoption by the European Community of positive and constructive policies in the field of development co-operation.

I conclude by welcoming the accession of Sao Tome and Principe, Cape Verde and Papua New Guinea to the Lomé Convention and commend these motions to the House.

Mr. R. Ryan

These are motions we support very enthusiastically.

My remarks will not be in any way a criticism of the motions but rather to use the opportunity to discharge an obligation I believe there is on every Member of this House who knows something about the problem, that is, to enlighten our people, out of self-interest and pity for their fellow beings, to be concerned about the working of the Lomé Convention and active also in improving living standards in poorer parts of the world. Those who engage in this type of debate in international assemblies and domestic parliaments sometimes make the mistake of confusing their people by resorting to jargon easily understood by those working in the system. When they talk about ACP countries, the Third World, the developing countries, the industrialised world, the less developed countries and so on they use terms understood in international fora that do not bring home to ordinary people precisely what they are talking about.

One third of mankind is living on a diet which contains less nutritional matter than the average diet of an Irish domestic pet. One third of the population of the world is incapable mentally—because of lack of nutrition and spiritual and mental development —of thinking beyond daily survival. Their sole ambition is to hold on to life; they have no other ambition because they have never been tempted to look beyond self-survival. The opportunity which presents itself to us of the better-off countries to help these people is so great that were we to devote all our talents and efforts from now to the day we die we would still have scratched only at the surface. It is easy enough to exhort people to give charity. However, because of the obligations people have to their families and immediate neighbours, they are less inclined to extend charity far afield. Often times we hear quoted the saying that charity begins at home. Let us accept that but see also the opportunities presenting themselves to the better-off people in the world to better themselves by helping others.

The Minister has drawn attention to the fact that so far the value of contracts which have come to Irish firms under the operation of the Lome Convention is £300,000; that is enjoyed by three firms. In relation both to EEC and World Bank operations Ireland has not exercised or taken advantage of the quota which is its entitlement. The truth is—as in many other spheres—the world does not owe us an obligation to look after us; we have an obligation to look after ourselves. I am absolutely convinced that we need to be far more active and sophisticated here and, through our agencies abroad, in drawing the attention of Irish entrepreneurs and workers to the great opportunities for them, through the operation of the various international and bilateral arrangements, to help people in the Third World. There are immense untapped opportunities available to Irish business men, particularly in relation to construction and administration. When we were in office we took quite a number of significant steps to interest people in Ireland, and semi-state bodies in particular, in the opportunities presenting themselves abroad. There has been a good beginning. Let us not say for one moment that nothing has been done; a great deal has been done. We now have in being DEVCO, the organisation of semi-state bodies, concerned about business opportunities which present themselves to help people in the less well-off countries of the world.

At a recent meeting I attended in Brussels it was pointed out that, as far as the EEC is concerned, they are of the opinion that Ireland could do a great deal more in this field so as to attract more of the business opportunities presenting themselves to us. This is not a question of depriving the people of the poorer countries of the opportunity to help themselves. The reality is that millions of people in this world have not even the rudimentary skills necessary to do some of the simplest tasks. As modern life has become highly complex some states that have emerged from colonialism and foreign rule have not got the administrative skills necessary to carry out even some of the most rudimentary forms of government. Here a number of our agencies—the Irish Management Institute, the Institute of Public Administration and others—have rendered considerable help and are extending their educational services in developing countries and in Ireland for people from the poorer countries.

That is but a small beginning. We have a great opportunity to do more. As we extend our commercial activity and industrial operations, life becomes more complex for us also. There is an understandable timidity on the part of Irish business people, indeed Irish tradesmen and others, to travel too far or into the unknown. But the opportunities exist. What is particularly important for us and our people travelling abroad is that there is total acceptability of Irish operators.

There are many countries with a colonial past who are highly suspect when they offer aid and assistance or when they endeavour to engage in business dealings with Governments and firms in the Third World. However, there are very few parts of the world where an Irishman or woman has not got total acceptability. This is because we have not a colonial past, that for a long time in the past Irish people were seen as the educators, as the renderers of medical aid and as comforters to people in the poorer countries. Wherever oppression has reared its ugly head, as it can too often in this day and age just as it did in the past, Irish people had been very much to the forefront in denouncing and opposing oppressive regimes.

In the course of my activities as Minister I had the privilege of travelling through quite a number of the OPEC states. Certainly nowadays they possess immense financial resources but the mere possession of such resources does not mean that they are not undeveloped. Indeed, many of them have financial resources which they have not the capacity to use because of the comparative and fairly recent ignorance and poverty of their people. It will take quite a number of decades before some of the OPEC countries for all their wealth will be developed to such an extent that they can look after themselves.

In the meantime these countries need the skills, the training, the opportunity, the construction corps and others which we can supply to them. I remember well one OPEC country where two welcomes were given to me because when I went to that part of the world I was travelling in two capacities. I was President of the Finance Council of Europe and I was also Minister for Finance of Ireland. Certainly I was given a warm and hospitable reception as President of the Finance Council but it was nothing to the depth of sincere welcome and total warmth of reception given to me as Irish Minister for Finance.

Later that country, as happened with other countries also, chose Ireland out of perhaps more than 100 countries offering services as the country to render them further assistance and to bring skills and services to them. I asked one of the leaders of these countries when he came to Dublin why he had chosen Ireland as the country to supply these skills when there were many other countries, some of which were more developed and had more resources. He gave a description of Ireland which some people may not like, but whether we like it or not does not matter so long as other people like us for it. He said the reason they chose Ireland was that it was a country that was politically stable, religiously conservative, in business dealings totally beyond reproach and in national disposition always friendly. It was an interesting assessment made by somebody who, in common with his colleagues in the developing nations, has the whole world knocking on the door but it is an indication of the acceptability of Irish people and of the services Ireland can render to the world generally.

I would mildly disagree with one remark made by the Minister. He spoke about the debate that is going on in relation to the industrialised world helping the Third World. Yes, the debate is going on, but I think it is a non-debate. This matter should be beyond debate. The logic of the situation is crystal clear to anyone who thinks for one moment. When you consider the millions of people I mentioned earlier not having sufficient to properly sustain them and when you consider that if their purchasing power were doubled or quadrupled they would have to buy more from the industralised world, it is quite clear that the markets of the industrialised world would be expanded greatly if only we in the developed world had the wit to give even as little as 1 per cent of the value of what we produce every year and to transfer it unconditionally to the developing world. If we did that, the markets for Irish goods and for all the goods of Europe would open and we would be saved from the confrontation, the shame and the agony that will continue as long as the better-off fail to transfer to those who need the money today the resources which they could use. They could then return to us to purchase the goods and services we can give.

It is a matter in which we can, as we should, discharge our moral obligation to the less well-off and it also happens to be an opportunity to make considerable progress ourselves by extending the market for our own goods and services. On this account the Minister may be assured that the motions have the unanimous support of the Fine Gael Party. In addition, on all other occasions in the future where the benefits of the Lomé Convention seek to be extended he may be assured of our support. It will be generously given because there are real advantages for everyone.

Mr. Kavanagh

I should like to join with my colleague in Fine Gael in assuring the Minister of a genuine welcome for this measure. The Lome Convention was perhaps one of the most enlightened agreements ever entered into between any group of wealthy industrial countries and countries of the Third World. Indeed, the transfer of resources from the EEC to developing countries to enable them to embark on a policy of economic and social improvement is to be lauded and the Labour Party give the Minister every support in this regard.

As the Minister has said, when the Lomé Convention came into force a year-and-a-half ago to achieve that more equitable relationship between the industrial countries of the EEC and the 46 developing countries mainly in Africa, the Caribbean and also some of the island countries of the Indian Ocean, it was hailed as a very important piece of international legislation. It is an international agreement that I hope will be followed by other industrial countries outside the EEC.

The trade provisions of the Lomé Convention are weighted very heavily in favour of the developing countries and this is to be expected. Naturally there are no reciprocal agreements whereby the 46 countries as they were then would have to repay some of the payments made under the terms of the convention. In addition, the financial arrangements are weighted heavily in favour of the developing countries and, as the Minister has said, over a period of five years a sum in the region of £160 million will go to improve the economies of these countries. That works out at about £33 million per year.

While we welcome this transfer of resources, we hope this is only a small beginning in the transfer of resources and the attempt to improve the economies of Third World countries because an amount of £33 million from funds available to EEC countries is a very small figure. We look forward to an expansion of the credits that will be made available to developing countries and we hope that expansion will take place in the near future, not in the distant future. We hope there will not be the same kind of delays that were attendant on the expansion of the regional and social funds within the Community itself.

As both the Minister and Deputy Ryan have said, the benefits are not all in one direction. As a privileged member of the Community we are deriving benefits from the Lomé Convention and three Irish companies have landed contracts to the extent of £300,000. This must make our contribution of £37,000 look rather small when profits are made on that type of figure. I hope that with the expansion of our commercial activities in the ACP countries we will not look on it as a purely commercial enterprise but that we will see that our contributions are also greatly enlarged. We should not look for financial benefit only. Our contributions should be given for the purpose for which Lomé was originally intended, improving the economies of the less well off people in the world.

The Minister underlined the value of the consultative assembly set up between the ACP countries and the EEC to give practical effect to the terms of agreement and to see that those terms are carried out fairly on both sides. I am one of the delegates from the EEC Parliament to this consultative assembly. I can assure the Minister that members of the consultative assembly will ensure that their demands are heard loudly in that assembly. I hope their position will be considered when the Council of Ministers meet to consider their demands.

There are practical difficulties in the assembly. There are only nine EEC countries and with the accession of the additional members there are over 50 of the others so that in order to have a proper balance of membership this will require a large number of members from the EEC Parliament or else certain countries of the ACP will need to enter an agreement only to send one or two members from a group in their countries. I do not think this is acceptable to the ACP. This means that the assembly is not working to the satisfaction of either side since the membership on one side is out of all proportion to the other. The debates are thus inclined to be lopsided with a great number of contributions coming from the ACP and with the demands made on the members of the European Parliament, their numbers are even more limited. That is one difficulty with the assembly.

Another difficulty which those of us who are members of democratic parliaments are strongly aware of is that many of those countries are not democratic states. Many of their representatives are from dictatorships. One wonders if they are speaking for the people of their countries. This assembly, despite what I have said about it, is performing a useful function. I hope that we will be able to improve the situation in those countries and bring about a desire for a democratic structure in the countries involved.

I want to assure the Minister of our support when he introduces measures which are designed to increase the amount of aid to the Third World. The Labour Party look forward to him demanding additional money from the Minister for Finance for aid for Third World countries not just within the African, Caribbean and Indian Ocean areas but in any part of the world where there is deprivation and where we can do useful work.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. O'Kennedy)

I am grateful to the House for the response which I anticipated we would get to those motions because there is a tripartisanship in the House at this stage. There must be a continuing tripartisanship in regard to our obligations to developing countries. In my introductory remarks I went into greater detail than I might have been expected to in explaining the background and the purpose of the Lomé Convention. I did this particularly for new Deputies who may have an opportunity of seeing how the House discharges its obligations through the European Community and through the Lomé Convention, which was negotiated by the Community with the ACP States. I hope it will be of benefit to them as a reference to how we discharge our responsibility through Community membership.

As Deputy Ryan pointed out, our obligations in relation to development aid go further than that. We have two bilateral aid programmes. I do not intend to go into any great detail about this. I want to make a few remarks in clarification of some of the matters which came up. I appreciated Deputy Kavanagh's comments on the operation of the consultative assembly. This is one of the advantages of having in our Parliament people who are serving in the European Parliament and through it in an assembly, such as the consultative assembly set up under Lomé. I have taken note of what Deputy Kavanagh said. I am sure that he knows when one is dealing with a range of states with such widely different backgrounds, historical traditions and different trends in their administration it is difficult to apply our standards to them.

The Community has to keep in mind in its relations with the developing countries that we cannot assume that we can impose our democratic standards on the countries with whom we are co-operating. The basis of the Lomé Convention is co-operation. They resist judgment by us on them for being less than democratic according to our standards. This is very much in the mind of the Community at the moment, not in regard to dictating to the states with whom we co-operate but perhaps in Lomé 2, which is due for negotiation in two years' time, we may begin to take it a stage further and try to guarantee what is the concern of all people around the world, the fundamental dignity and right of the individuals in the states to which those loans and aids are being applied. It is a delicate but also very important matter.

I would be glad to receive further information and suggestions from Deputy Kavanagh and Deputy Nolan who serves with him on the consultative assembly with regard to how we can begin to analyse this problem and how we can solve it. Ireland is different—this arises from what Deputy Ryan said—from the rest of the Community in that we, unlike the rest of the Community states, with the exception of Luxembourg, do not have a colonial past. We share, therefore, in our history the experiences of many of those countries with whom we are co-operating. We obviously have a degree of goodwill from them towards us. There is, therefore, an obligation on us to use that not alone to our own advantage but to the advantage of the developing states and the Community to which we belong.

Sometimes regional groups of states tend to look on each other as blocs, such as an African, Asian or European group of nations, and to take a certain view of the others from a long distance. Those of us within certain regional groups, as we are within the European Community, who have much in common with many of the states of the other regional groups, whether they be African or Asian, have an opportunity and an obligation to reach out and establish the common ground we have so that we can break down the divisions of mistrust that exist between these countries and the developed world. These divisions are lessening but they are still there.

I mention in passing that one of the most humbling experiences I have had and ever expect to have was when the Foreign Minister of one of the African states came to me during the course of my recent visit to the United Nations. He sought an interview with me and the only purpose was to thank me and the Irish people and to explain to the people through me what is being done with the assistance we have given. This is a measure of the goodwill that is there and I could only say to him, as I would to others like him, that we are glad of the opportunity to co-operate with such countries. The extent to which they find our technical advice helpful is a matter of deep satisfaction to us.

In that connection, Ireland has another special advantage which I have discussed with Commissioner Cheysson, who is in charge of the development programme in the European Community. Let us acknowledge that in this terminology we are a developed and wealthy country, as Deputy Ryan has highlighted. We are none-theless at a stage of intermediate development. We are close enough to the point when we can still remember when development really got under way. To the extent that this has been achieved in our own lifetime we can see more readily the problems of the developing world, the lack of expertise and of capital resources. We are in a special position to be able to help those countries who are now experiencing the problems we faced 25 or 30 years ago and Commissioner Cheysson has taken note of this. Our semi-State agencies played a big role in the development of the Irish economy under whatever Government were in power and they are uniquely placed to make a contribution to the programmes of the developing world. I am glad to say that they are doing just that.

We can make two unique contributions through our semi-State agencies and through our tradition of personnal service. Let us recognise the reality that we will never be able to apply huge resources to any great effect in any one country but we can concentrate on some countries, particularly those with the greatest problems, and apply our resources selectively, as we are doing at the moment, and we can offer the services of our personnel either on a voluntary basis or through the semi-State agencies. We can maximise on the good they can do and the goodwill they can build between us. This goodwill can be established through us with the European Community and with the African or Pacific states through them. Obviously this is a two-way thing. By helping each other we can look forward to greater co-operation and greater benefit in the future. Deputy Ryan is quite right. I know he was not taking issue with me on the use of the word "debate". There is no doubt about our interdependence. This is absolutely accepted. The western world could not survive as a producer region unless it were to encourage other regions to be effective consumers. If only for selfish reasons, there is a degree of interdependence. Obviously there is co-operation. At our stage of intermediate development we are expecting to maximise on the opportunity we get from Lomé through consultancy contracts for appropriately qualified firms.

I will clarify a point for Deputy Kavanagh. The extra contribution that we will make as a result of the accession of these three countries is £37,000. Our total contribution to Lomé, which may be called up over an eight year period, is of the order of £12.3 million at current exchange rates. In those terms the amount that has come back to us in consultancy contracts is not excessive.

One of the problems which Ireland faces is that it is the developing country which decides and selects the consultancy firms from a list supplied by the Commission. Most of these countries were former colonial states of France, Britain or the Netherlands and because we have no direct historical association with them our consultancy firms do not immediately occur to them as the ones they would engage. Secondly, we do not have the range of diplomatic representations throughout Africa or the Pacific countries that other countries have. This is something that the Government are determined to overcome by looking at our diplomatic representation throughout this area for reasons of mutual benefit and interest. I am happy with the assurances from Commissioner Cheysson that they will try to maintain a reasonable quota basis between the countries operating Lomé. We look forward to further opportunities for Irish firms to take part in this process over the next few years.

There was a reference to where we may go from here. The next stage is obviously Lomé 2, which will come up for negotiation very soon. The problem is not just the transfer of resources; it is to do with training people to help themselves and with technological development. Lomé 2 will have to pay attention to this. Lomé 1 was unique. It was a great breakthrough in that it did show a great concern by a group of nations. It was simply discharging a debt, let us acknowledge it, by paying back what had been enjoyed for hundreds of years. The next stage is to help these countries, particularly through technological aid, to develop their own resources to meet the new world economic order. A community of interest must be brought about between Europe and any other group of nations and these states so that they will not see themselves as part of a bargaining group, but rather as part of a community of nations that are interdependent. At the next stage I hope that we will begin to see a further strengthening of that awareness which is well under way as a result of Lomé.

I thank the House for the response that has been given to this motion and for the fact that I can expect the same kind of response on any similar occasion.

Question put and agreed to.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. O'Kennedy)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the Agreement on the Accession of the Republic of Cape Verde to the ACP-EEC Convention of Lomé and the Final Act related to that Agreement, signed on 28th March, 1977, copies of which have been laid before the Dáil.

Question put and agreed to.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. O'Kennedy)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the Agreement on the Accession of Papua New Guinea to the ACP-EEC Convention of Lomé and the Final Act related to that Agreement, signed on 28th March, 1977, copies of which have been laid before the Dáil.

Question put and agreed to.