asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether he is taking any steps to ensure that the action of the IRFU in visiting South Africa will not lead to trade embargoes on Irish goods.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Rugby Tour to South Africa.
1.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will outline the number of occasions on which he personally had meetings with representatives of the Irish Rugby Football Union in connection with their proposed tour of South Africa; the venue and the dates of such meetings; the number of representatives from the IRFU present at each of the meetings; and the duration of each meeting.
3.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he now proposes to have direct contact with the Irish Rugby Football Union to request them formally of behalf of the Government not to proceed with the proposed tour of South Africa in view of their failure to comply with his earlier request.
4.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if the Government propose to close our office of honorary consul in South Africa and dispense with the services of the present consul, Mr. Patrick Ryan, in view of this country's continued opposition to the policy of apartheid as practised in South Africa; and if he would regard such a course of action as clearly indicating to the South African regime our disapproval of their policies of apartheid.
5.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he proposes to take any action in the event of the IRFU proceeding with its proposed tour of South Africa; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5 together.
The Government deeply regret the decision of the Irish Rugby Football Union to accept a South African invitation for a rugby tour in South Africa in May 1981. As I indicated in my statement on 3 January, the Government are gravely concerned about the proposed tour which, if it takes place, will be seen in South Africa and in many other countries as evidence of a lack of concern about the evil of apartheid and the dangerous situation in South Africa.
The Government's attitude towards the proposed tour has been expressed on a number of occasions. In my reply to a question on this subject on 10 December, I indicated that I had met with representatives of the executive committee of the IRFU and that I had expressed to them the Government's concern about, and opposition to, the proposed tour. This meeting took place in my office on 21 November and resulted from a letter which I sent to the president of the IRFU on 14 October inviting him and members of his executive committee to discuss the issue with me. The IRFU delegation comprised, in addition to the president, the two vice-presidents, the two Irish representatives on the International Rugby Football Board and the secretary of the organisation — a total of seven. At the meeting, which was a lengthy one, I was informed that no decision had yet been taken and that the IRFU were in the process of consulting their membership on the issue.
The IRFU announced their decision on 2 January. In addition to the condemnation of the tour by the Government it has been opposed by all the political parties represented here, by prominent Church leaders, by trade union leaders and by many other bodies. It has also given rise to expressions of concern internationally and has been raised both at the United Nations and in the European Parliament. African countries, too, have already demonstrated the concern that they feel about this issue.
The Government have, of course, taken steps to make clear their opposition to the tour. The Minister for Sport has informed the IRFU that their application for grant-aid cannot be approved so long as their present policy on sporting contacts with South Africa is maintained. Special leave will not be granted to any State employee who may be selected for the Irish team.
I am giving further consideration to the possibilities for any additional action that may be needed to make clear the Government's concern on this issue, including the possibility of a further approach to the IRFU. As I indicated in my statement on 3 January, the Government recognise and value the contribution that rugby football makes to Irish life and society and do not wish to interfere with the independence of sporting bodies in Ireland. I sincerely hope that the IRFU will now reconsider the issue in the light of the serious reaction that it has provoked.
In reply to the question from Deputy Browne about the trade implications of the proposed tour, I have already taken steps to ensure that the Governments of African States with which we have diplomatic relations have been kept informed of the Government's attitude. The Government's position has been clearly expressed also at the United Nations, and my statement of 3 January is being circulated as an official document of the UN Special Committee against Apartheid. I hope that as a result of the action I have taken other countries will be in no doubt as to the Government's position and will recognise that the tour, if it goes ahead, is contrary to public policy in Ireland in relation to sporting contacts with South Africa.
In reply to the question from Deputy Quinn relating to the services provided by the honorary consul in Johannesburg, these services are entirely of a consular nature and are the minimum necessary to meet the needs of Irish citizens in South Africa, some of whom are engaged in work of a missionary or humanitarian nature. They in no way imply the existence of diplomatic relations with the South African Government. I do not, therefore, intend to take action of the kind suggested. I will, however, continue to use every appropriate opportunity to put forward, at the United Nations and in other fora, the Government's strong opposition to South Africa's apartheid policies.
I think I speak for everyone in the House, properly within the terms of order, when I congratulate the Minister on the action he has taken to date. It has the full support of everyone in the House and I hope it has the support of the IRFU. If the IRFU do not bow to the democratic wishes of the majority of Irish people does the Minister think he is in a position to take further action to try to convince them of the Government's opposition and, arising out of that, would he propose formally to meet the council of the IRFU yet again to express to them the damage that would be done to this country and to human interests in South Africa if the tour goes ahead?
I said in my reply that I am considering an approach to them again on the basis mentioned by the Deputy.
I join with Deputy Quinn in congratulating the Minister on his unequivocal answer. I should like to make two constructive suggesions to the Minister which may be helpful to him. The first is, would it be possible for him to consult with the Congress of Trade Unions and ask the unions to make it impossible for the team to fly to South Africa by refusing to carry them in our aircraft or to go by any other means? Secondly, would the Minister consider, if all else fails and as a last resort, holding a referendum in order to convince these people that they only represent themselves and to make it clear that they do not represent the Irish people in taking a decision to go to this country where there is the disgraceful situation of apartheid.
I do not think it is a matter that would be appropriate to a referendum. All three political parties have made their views known. We are the parties representing the people and that stance is sufficient to indicate our moral attitude as the Irish people's representative parliament. As far as the other point is concerned, while I share the abhorrence expressed by congress in regard to apartheid, I do not think it would be appropriate for the Government to suggest to the trade union movement particular lines of action which lie within the province of decision-making by the trade unions.
I join in congratulating the Minister on the vigour and determination with which he has pursued this issue with the full support of all parties in the House. Has the Minister considered communicating our position not merely to the African States with which we have diplomatic relations which are, unfortunately, politically few but to the others also through their ambassadors at the UN or by direct contact because of the danger of misunderstandings. I should like to add, for the Minister's information, that my own contacts with Ministers in the other continents has shown that sometimes they have quite incorrect perceptions of Irish attitudes. They are always glad to be told what our position is. I urge the Minister to consider extending the range of diplomatic action lest misunderstandings in the states with which we do not have diplomatic relations should have unfortunate repercussions for us. I agree with the Minister's decision with regard to the honorary consul whose work in helping Irish citizens in trouble, including one person who was in jail for a number of years because of his activities against the regime there, is beyond praise. Without the work of the honorary consul people like the person I mentioned would be in very great difficulties.
I am grateful to the Deputy for his remarks about our consul in Johannesburg. I will follow the Deputy's suggestion up. Anything I can do in regard to widening and strengthening information about the Government's attitude in this respect will be done in the countries concerned, those of black Africa and the Arab world. I will be in touch with the Deputy about this matter. I am conscious of what he says about the dangers of this tour being misrepresented. They may not be fully aware of the democratic distinction that exists in our society between a representative rugby team and the Government of the country. That is the important point we are anxious to get across.
We cannot underestimate the extent of misunderstandings. I recall meeting the Foreign Minister of a very important African state who was convinced that the IRA was our army and that we sent them across the Border but that they were disowned for the purposes of propaganda. That Minister was pleasantly surprised to learn the contrary. He was willing to tell all his friends this great news of which he was quite unaware.
I do not share the Minister's view about the consul matter but he has made a decision. I believe the Minister should do as I have suggested in my question. I should like to ask the Minister if he is in a position to confirm newspaper reports to the effect that Government Ministers will not attend domestic IRFU functions — I refer to the home internationals — and if he can further tell us — the Minister for Justice is present and he may be in a position to help — whether the Garda band or the Army band will be withdrawn from the IRFU as a mark of our disproval?
Government Ministers, in their own capacity, will not be present in any representative way. The President has made his own decision and that is a separate matter from the position of the Government. That is where the matter stands.
We have had sufficient supplementaries on those questions.