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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Feb 1986

Vol. 363 No. 13

Adjournment Debate. - Killorglin (Kerry) Outdoor Education Centre.

First of all, I should like to thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving me permission to raise this important matter tonight. It is, indeed, very important. I learned with regret late this morning about the proposed closure of Cappanalea Outdoor Education Centre in Killorglin as from 1 March.

The history of this project is very interesting party because it is shortlived but, secondly, because it is a most interesting project. This outdoor education pursuits centre was constructed and organised mainly through the Kerry VEC and by various voluntary organisations primarily in the Killorglin area of County Kerry. I understand that the Department of Education invested capital to the tune of £116,000 in respect of this education centre. It is the only outdoor pursuits centre of its kind in Kerry. Thousands of young people, including students and adults from areas throughout the whole country, avail of the tremendous amenities attached to the centre.

Early in 1985, I understand that Deputy George Birmingham, Minister of State at the Department of Education and the Department of Labour gave a firm commitment to the board of management of Cappanalea and to the County Kerry VEC that the project would be supported financially for three years by the State at £30,000 per annum for 1985, 1986 and 1987. I also understand that this proposal was to be funded mainly out of the Teamwork funding scheme for the staff. This Teamwork funding for the staff has now been cut off suddenly and the Kerry VEC have no alternative but to close down the centre on 28 February.

I understand that the CEO received a letter yesterday morning from the Department of Labour, and from the Department of Education this morning, stating that financial aid was being withdrawn. The County Kerry VEC and the board of management of Cappanalea feel very much let down by the Department of Education and by the Department of Labour and, indeed, by the Government. Six persons are employed on this scheme. It will cost £600 per week to run the enterprise without the Teamwork funding scheme. County Kerry VEC cannot possibly afford a loss of anything near this, to say the least. I am a member of the County Kerry VEC and I am also a member of the board of management of Cappanalea Outdoor Education Centre and I have a very special interest in this project because of the very nature of the project and because of the section of the community for which it caters, mainly and primarily our young people, particularly teenagers who came from far and near to avail of the training services in this centre.

I understand that a suggestion has been made by some Government Departments to the County Kerry VEC that the social employment scheme fund should be availed of to finance this project from now onwards. I am sure the Minister of State will realise that this scheme is not suitable for the payment of the staff employed in the Cappanalea outdoor pursuit centre because, first of all, the employment scheme is confined to persons over 25 years of age who have been in receipt of unemployment assistance for at least 12 months. Having regard to the names which will be supplied to the board of management by the National Manpower Service and in particular the local employment exchange office, it is felt generally that these persons would require quite an amount of training to enable them to operate the centre as satisfactorily as it is being operated at present with skilled staff. Again, under this social employment scheme, the employees can work only two and a half days per week or five half days per week so there would not be continuity of employment, continuity of service as far as the employees are concerned and as far as the operation of this whole scheme is concerned.

Furthermore, should this project fail, it would be a big loss to Killorglin town and to its business sector. It would also be a big loss to the education and well being of the students in the south west of the county. This scheme is financed more or less by way of £32,000 collected annually in fees and charges, £99,500 in respect of equipment by the Department of Education and then £30,000 to support that from the Department of Labour. You can see, therefore, that the £30,000 grant will not be forthcoming this year. It is also important to note that the County Kerry VEC are not permitted to finance this project themselves out of their own fund. What we really want from the Department of Labour and the Department of Education is a replacement cost grant of £30,000 to continue this scheme. All the schemes would be operated by the County Kerry VEC. The Department asked recently for a scheme to be prepared by the VEC and the board of management in respect of Cappanalea which would benefit North-South relations as far as the youth of this island are concerned through the promotion of excursions to the south, to Killorglin and Cappanalea. In view of the correspondence from the Department of Education and the Department of Labour within the past few days to the County Kerry VEC, it looks as if this whole proposal is being set aside as well. I should like to get the views of the Minister of State on that aspect of the case in view of the decision to withdraw from this scheme.

Again, I want to point out to the Minister how unsuitable the social employment scheme is for employing the category of persons required to operate a scheme like this successfully where continuity of service is essential. I ask the Minister of State to view this in a very sympathetic fashion and to negotiate for the continuation of this grant of £30,000 for the remainder of 1986 and also for 1987 and fulfil the commitments given by Deputy G. Birmingham when he was Minister of State at the Department of Education and at the Department of Labour.

I thank Deputy O'Leary for kindly giving me some minutes of his time and I re-echo some of the sentiments expressed by him. I am very disappointed with this decision and I hope it can be reversed. This is a magnificent project which has tremendous potential. It is in line with the Anglo-Irish Agreement in that over 1,000 boys and girls from Northern Ireland have come to Kerry over the past five years and spent several days there, staying with the locals in different houses and camping out when the weather was suitable. Friendships developed which are still going on and these people come back again and again. If crossBorder friendship is to develop, here is positive proof of deeds in action.

This centre cannot be surpassed for outdoor education. Teachers from all over Ireland come there with their pupils and stay over long weekends, studying all aspects of nature. The new curriculum for education highly recommends this study. The sheer excitement of outdoor pursuits such as canoeing, mountaineering and fishing is to be found at Cappanalea.

This decision will be a tremendous bombshell for those who have already booked for next summer. It has not been well thought out. The Department were good enough to spend over £116,000 there during the past few years. Why leave it there now like a white elephant on the side of a Kerry mountain? It is difficult to find words when speaking about the new schemes recommended by different people to carry on this project. Anybody with commonsense would know that these schemes are impractical. Where young people are involved, there must be continuity of employment so that the men and women in charge of the scheme get to know the children by name. The Department should know that it will not work if different people are employed on different days. These people were advised by the Department last year that this project would be financed for 1986 and 1987. It is not good enough for a Minister of Department officials to give a commitment like that to a committee and then renege on it.

I appeal to the new Minister, whom I wish well in his appointment, to make a name for himself in Kerry by a stroke of the pen. I would ask him to meet a deputation from the management committee. I know that a similar request was sent to a previous Minister. The Minister might tease out with the management committee a means of keeping the centre open in order not to disappoint the children North and South of the Border who eagerly look forward to their time in Cappanalea.

Dún Laoghaire): I have listened very carefully to both contributions and thank both Deputies for the manner in which they presented their case. I would be only too delighted to consider Deputy Begley's request to meet a deputation from those concerned with this centre.

Cappanalea outdoor education centre was built in 1981 by County Kerry Vocational Education Committee with the assistance of a grant-in-aid provided under the programme for the provision of recreational facilities. Grants in respect of furnishing and equipment are made available on an annual basis by the Department of Education.

Unfortunately, it has not been possible for the Department of Education to authorise full time staffing for the centre due to the embargo on the creation of new posts in the public service. Having regard to the many demands for staffing in various areas within the education sector, there is no possibility of effecting the redeployment of any posts to cater for the staffing needs at Cappanalea centre.

Since March 1985 it has been possible for the management committee of Cappanalea centre to avail of the Department of Labour's Teamwork scheme. During that period grants totalling £28,980 were allocated to enable eight people to be employed to run the centre. That particular Teamwork scheme terminated, however, in December 1985.

An application for further assistance under the scheme was fully and sympathetically considered but regrettably has been turned down due to the greatly increased demand on the resources provided for this particular scheme. The County Kerry Vocational Education Committee have been advised that their proposal could qualify for assistance under the social employment scheme. So far as I am aware no application has been received for such assistance.

During the course of Deputy O'Leary's contribution he stated that it would cost £600 per week to run the centre. The figure received from the County Kerry Vocational Education Committee shows the cost of staffing to be in the region of £1,000 per week.

The question of the staffing of outdoor education centres, including that at Cappanalea, was considered by the National Youth Policy Committee. In the Government's recently published White Paper entitled In Partnership with Youth Paragraph 5.5.3 states:

The Government recognise the valuable contribution which Outdoor Pursuit Centres, managed by Vocational Education Committee, and youth hostels and residential centres, run by voluntary youth organisations, can make towards meeting important personal development needs of young people. The Department of Education will ensure that the Outdoor Pursuit Centres will be adequately staffed and financed to enable their full and effective use as part of the National Youth Service.

That is the commitment given in the recently published document. I would ask County Kerry VEC to keep this very valuable asset in operation with funding from the social employment scheme as an interim measure, pending the implementation of the national youth policy.

Does the Minister of State understand from my contribution how difficult it will be to use the social employment scheme to employ staff to operate the centre?

(Dún Laoghaire): I recognise that it is not the most satisfactory way of managing this centre but there were difficulties also with the Teamwork scheme in that there was a continual replacement of staff. The same will apply with the social employment scheme, but I made the point that the latter scheme could be used as an interim measure until the national youth policy is implemented.

Will the Minister meet a deputation as soon as possible?

(Dún Laoghaire): I will be delighted to consider the requests of Deputy Begley and Deputy O'Leary to meet a deputation.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.50 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 19 February 1986.

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