Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 May 1998

Vol. 491 No. 4

Ceisteanna—Questions. - Public Service Management Act.

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

3 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the members of his Government, if any, who have made joint orders under section 12 of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, assigning responsibility for the performance of functions in relation to cross-departmental matters to specified civil servants; if so, the matters, functions and Departments affected; the proposals, if any, being considered for making these orders in the future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12023/98]

The purpose of section 12 of the Act is to provide, as necessary, for the assignment by Ministers or Ministers of State of responsibility to civil servants for cross-departmental issues and the associated accountability arrangements. The Act also requires, at official level, that the heads of Departments and offices ensure that appropriate arrangements are put in place to facilitate an effective response to these issues.

Orders have not so far been made under section 12 of the Public Service Management Act, 1997. However, I am advised that, to support him in his role, the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children with special responsibility for children, Deputy Fahey, intends to make an order establishing a cross-departmental team of senior civil servants from his Department and the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and Education and Science.

As the Deputy is aware, the strategy statements of Departments and offices, which were prepared for the first time under the 1997 Act, were laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas by 1 May.

I am arranging that these statements of Departments and offices now be reviewed to identify key cross-departmental issues and the appropriate arrangements to address them. The question of making orders under section 12 will be considered further in that context.

I appreciate that the Taoiseach has been extraordinarily busy with matters of State, particularly in relation to Northern Ireland, but the revelation he has put on the record of the House is a scandal. He has misled the House in his suggestion that the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Fahey, has been given cross-departmental responsibility for a number of matters on foot of reconsideration, following initiatives made by the previous Government led by Deputy John Bruton, where it was necessary to address a particular issue by giving responsibility in a number of different Departments. The Public Service Management Act, 1997, which I introduced, made explicit legal powers available for the assignment of a departmental official in Department X to responsibilities under Department Y. I am shocked by the Taoiseach's revelation.

Notwithstanding the statement made by the Taoiseach on the allocation of additional responsibilities to the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, the necessary orders have not been made under section 12 and not one public servant has been assigned cross-departmental responsibilities under section 4. I do not wish to be antagonistic, but has the Taoiseach, as a former Minister for Finance, looked at this Act? Is he not aware that all public servants must answer to the Accounting Officer and Secretary General in each Department and that the effectiveness of announcing in this House some months ago that the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, had cross-departmental responsibilities has been made null and void as a result of what he put on the record of the House today?

The announcement about the additional duties of the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Fahey, was done under the orders put before the Cabinet. That was a Cabinet decision with orders from each of the relevant Departments. I am well aware of this Act as I brought it into effect on 1 September 1997 rather than in the spring of 1998.

The Taoiseach should not mislead the House. The Act was brought into effect sooner than was envisaged. He did not introduce it.

The Act was already passed but it had to be brought into operation. I was not involved in introducing it. I brought it into effect in September 1997 rather than in the spring of 1998.

That was welcome.

I said that no orders have been made under this Act but the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, who is working as a result of a Government decision, must make an order under section 12. He is working with full ministerial responsibility and Cabinet approval of this decision. There is no great revelation in that.

I will come back to the Taoiseach on that point.

I will check it too. In order to give the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, delegated responsibility, we had to get orders of the various Ministers, which was done by Cabinet decision. I do not believe that is out of order. However, if it is, I will come back to the Deputy.

The Taoiseach might find it is.

I will check it.

What Minister has been assigned responsibility to go through all the strategy statements of all the Departments to identify opportunities for cross-departmental teams?

The officials in my Department have been involved in co-ordinating the strategy statements. They have been communicating with every Department to publish these and I am sure they will work in conjunction with the Departments. The officials in my Department have been driving the process.

Surely the process of identifying cross-departmental opportunities involves detailed work? With all due respect to the staff of the Department of the Taoiseach, for whom I have the utmost regard, they do not have the detailed knowledge of individual micro-areas for opportunity or co-operation between individual Departments. They do not have that experience and to pretend that they do is foolish. Surely the public expenditure division of the Department of Finance, which has an efficiency responsibility, should be involved with the Department of the Taoiseach in identifying areas for co-operation? Is it not the case that this division has detailed knowledge of the operations of public expenditure in every nook and cranny of Government?

That is correct but, as a former Minister for Finance, Deputy John Bruton should know that someone must take the lead in trying to co-ordinate matters. The officials in my Department work in conjunction with other Departments. If it was left to the public expenditure division of the Department of Finance, I am not sure it would receive the relevant priority because it has a different focus. A small number of people in my Department are trying to drive the strategy statements and SMI process forward. They do not have all the knowledge but at least they have the authority to push the process forward. If nobody does this work, nothing will happen. As the Deputy is aware, it is not an easy task to get the Departments to co-operate in these matters.

Does the Taoiseach agree that it would be a far better approach to set up a cross-departmental team under the SMI and the legislation in his Department and the Department of Finance to drive this process forward? Does he also agree that he should use the instruments under the legislation to create new instruments for co-operation between other Departments rather than attempting to have this job done in the Department of the Taoiseach which does not have the staff or the range of detailed knowledge necessary to put the detailed arrangements in place? That is not a criticism of the staff of that Department.

I accept that is not a criticism. An interdepartmental committee and a management group, which represents eight Departments, have been established to drive this process forward. The structure is in place. The detailed strategy statements will be laid before the House and I am sure people will be impressed by them. We are now on the fourth stage and we need someone to drive it forward. My officials will use available people, the interdepartmental committee and the implementation group to ensure this happens. It is one thing to introduce legislation and publish strategy statements, but it is another thing to implement it. That is the next phase.

Top
Share