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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Feb 1999

Vol. 499 No. 5

Irish Sports Council Bill, 1998: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When I last spoke on this Bill on 26 November 1998 I referred to the planning laws. The Sports Council should look into this area. Developers are building hundreds of houses in housing estates around the country but are not providing any sports facilities, not even playing pitches. It is vitally important that developers, who are making large amounts of money from developing sites and building houses and are bringing many young people into areas, provide facilities. A levy should be put on developers of large housing estates so that this type of facility can be provided. Throughout the country we have seen what has happened where developers have built housing estates and then left the county council to carry the can. The county council has been unable to find funding and the whole matter has dragged on.

Before the debate was adjourned, I gave the example of the village of Monksland where up to 1,000 people do not even have a soccer pitch. It has taken Roscommon County Council six months to build a 50 yard long fence. This delayed a project for young people in that locality and led to many social problems there. The Sports Council should examine the planning implications of that case. Sport is a great asset for young people and there is a huge social aspect to it in combating drug and alcohol abuse. The biggest substance abuse in the country does not concern heroin or cannabis, but alcohol. If we are to begin to combat some of the problems associated with drug abuse we must provide adequate sports facilities.

Some 40 per cent of 17 year olds have used drugs on a regular basis and up to 20 per cent of 13 year olds have done so. Some surveys show that the rate of substance abuse is 50 per cent higher here than in many European countries. There is no point in banning everything outright and telling young people to say no to drugs unless we provide basic facilities for them. It is crucially important to provide sports facilities and community centres. Unless young people have an outlet in their own localities other than the pub and mixing with a crowd they should not become involved with, we will have serious problems. We can pontificate all we like in this Chamber, but unless we provide alternatives for young people we will not help them to avoid substance abuse.

National lottery grants have been a vital asset in developing facilities for youth organisations. Sadly, however, much of the money has drifted into health care and other areas. We should divert adequate funds into the areas the lottery was set up to benefit, such as the swimming pool in County Roscommon. I hope the Minister will provide funds in the current year for that pool. The existing facility has been closed for the past two months. The Minister for Finance visited the area last week to see the facility.

We talk about encouraging young people to swim and we emphasise water safety, yet in every midland county including Portlaoise, Roscommon and other midland areas, there are problems with swimming pools. The Minister should target these areas rather than some of the super swimming pool developments in coastal areas. The Minister represents a coastal county and he has a priority there, but we must look at counties where young people do not have access to the sea or to swimming lessons during the summer months. Young people living in coastal areas have a better opportunity to learn to swim than those in midland counties. We must give the latter the same opportunities.

We saw in newspaper reports this week that surfing has been banned in Strandhill, but sadly it was too late for three young individuals who had attended school in County Roscommon. They did not have the opportunity to learn how to swim, but perhaps they could have been saved on that occasion had they learned. The community in Ballaghaderreen has raised £100,000 to build a swimming pool and is waiting for approval from the Department. We must examine blackspots where facilities are needed.

I compliment the Minister on the move towards a regional sports centre in Athlone. It is a welcome development which, hopefully, will be up and running soon. Throughout the country there is a lack of facilities such as swimming pools and regional sports centre. If we are really committed to sport we need to build basic facilities for young people and adults alike rather than talking about 50 metre swimming pools and big multinational projects. Without the basic facilities we cannot develop swimmers who will be able to compete in years to come. Much can be done through national lottery funding which has, unfortunately, been diverted to other areas.

I hope the Minister will take cognisance of the various points I have raised. I support the Bill and wish the Sports Council every success.

I welcome this legislation which will establish the Irish Sports Council. A number of points have been raised about the council's proposed activities. Its first move should be to develop an integrated national plan for the development and promotion of sport. As part of this plan it will have to examine the possibility of erecting a national stadium in Dublin consultants are currently examining this matter. The recent proposals by the FAI are part of an ongoing examination of a facility that would attract many national and international sporting events to the capital. The technological aspects of the FAI's plan are worthy of close examination. I have no doubt that in examining the plan the Government will take on board the various technologies used to operate such a stadium, many aspects of which are quite attractive. I do not know if there is room for a number of such stadia, but the concept of a stadium of that kind in Dublin is one that the Government and the new Sports Council should move towards in their efforts to establish this country as a major centre for sporting activity on the world stage.

The requirements for regional event centres should also be examined. In looking at many of the issues on a national scale these projects are attracted to urban centres, particularly the capital city. This can often occur at the expense of the development of sport at regional level. Sites are available within each region that could be developed as regional event centres. They could be used for all sporting activities, thereby providing both a regional and national perspective for the promotion of international events. Such centres in each of the regions would also focus attention on sporting activity and developments within the regions.

I hope the new Sports Council will take a bottom up approach, building upon the infrastructure that already exists in almost every county. School PE halls could provide the first port of call for the new Sports Council. All school administrators attempt to encourage primary pupils to participate in sport and this will prove to be a great strength for the development of the Sports Council. It in turn should use this established infrastructure to prop up its work.

Huge investment is taking place in community halls throughout the country. They are put to general use in rural Ireland not only as social but as sporting centres. If investment was made in community halls in urban areas, they could be put to much greater use as sporting facilities at parish level.

The Minister mentioned clubs and volunteers. Over the years, they encouraged participation in sport of all types when it was not fashionable. People have a natural attraction to supporting and developing our national games, but other clubs have emerged over the years. They have brought together communities and helped to develop them and individuals in terms of the support of a particular sport.

When the bottom up approach is established by the national council, I hope it will consider facilities such as Buckley Park in my constituency. This was established by the local community coming together and raising funds voluntarily. It sought funding from the national lottery and gathered various amounts from fundraising events. It established a first class soccer field at county level. Buckley Park is an example of what one form of sport, in this case soccer, can achieve. The park is a great credit to all the volunteers in Kilkenny. However, it requires more funding and the support of the new national council for further development and to ensure it is placed on a secure footing for the future. In common with other soccer clubs, it has brought together young people who are keen on the development of the game and who want to participate because it is a high profile sport that they see on television. Given the establishment of this club and others in every county, the sports council must build on existing structures. Buckley Park is one example.

While some parks are up and running, others are less developed. For example, the Evergreen soccer club in Kilkenny has applied for funding because it also wants to develop its club and grounds. The emergence of soccer and other clubs is due to demand at local level and the greater numbers of people living in urban housing estates. Clubs are responding to that demand and as the numbers and the activities increase, finance becomes a key issue.

These clubs help to develop the personality and character of young men and women. They are given something to which they can aspire and a game in which they can participate. Some of them may even participate at a professional level in the future. It does not only provide sporting fulfilment. If the matter was considered in that light and the funding provided by various Departments for these activities was merged, there would be much more structured sporting facilities and more young people would be willing to participate and take responsibility. They would learn to be team players and to understand discipline.

Kilkenny city is famed for its handballers. Most of these players emerged through the open handball alleys throughout the city. The O'Loughlins club received funding from the national lottery and provided an indoor handball alley. People can see people such as Ducksie Walsh playing there in national tournaments. Ducksie Walsh's skill was developed in the open handball alleys in the city. If the sports council examined the handball alleys built by local authorities and directed funding to them, it would discover that there is no need to build new handball alleys and infrastructure. It can build on existing structures and the success of local authorities.

A number of local authorities have provided swimming pools. Some of them were low cost projects at the time. Many years ago, they facilitated a new form of sport. It was a departure for local authorities to become involved in the provision of swimming pools, which proved to be a huge success. While recognising that a limited fund will be available, the national council could list the swimming pools countrywide and use that infrastructure. It could support it financially and provide funds for additional facilities such as gymnasiums, coffee docks and public arenas. These would attract the public. The local authority or the private club running the pool would have the status of operating under the structures of the sports council, thereby ensuring access to funds for developing the facility. If the council is proactive in its approach to the task, it should use existing handball alleys, clubs, community centres and swimming pools as a basis on which to build all-round sporting centres.

If the sports council considers Kilkenny, one of its first tasks should be to ensure that the development of the swimming pool is undertaken in partnership with the local authority. This pool is open from 6 a.m. until almost 12 midnight. There are employees paid by the local authority but others give their time on a voluntary basis. If the sports council took a proactive approach and money was made available, a fine facility could be established there at very low cost. Given the development of Kilkenny and the population explosion which has taken place there, the project should be taken on by the sports council at an early stage.

The development of indoor sports in all counties is ongoing. Many people are involved in all types of indoor sport and particular attention should be given to the development of these sports. Ladies' sports are often forgotten in the debate on sport, which is sometimes given a narrow definition. However, many fine female athletes participate at club level and higher. An all inclusive policy is required, which should also encompass sport for the disabled. This aspect needs to be developed locally in terms of clubs, organisations and swimming pools and ensuring money is invested to allow the full participation of disabled people. They should be able to access and use pools and gymnasiums.

This will require heavy investment but it is necessary to ensure an all inclusive approach to sport. However, the burden of investment can be made lighter by using existing infrastructure. There is an army of volunteers who are willing to participate in the development of sport. In Ireland more than any other country, sport is a way of life. On Sundays, families go to see hurling and football matches. This has established the sporting ethos in Ireland and the sports council will receive support from these people. Where a self-help ethos is established in a county, the sports council could tap into that energy. The Graiguecullen swimming pool and community development project is being considered for national lottery funding. The project will serve a number of counties and has the support of people not only in Graiguecullen but in Carlow, Laois and Offaly. Many people believed the project would not get off the ground but as a result of the support of Fr. Fingleton and a number of community groups, it is currently on the drawing board and ready to proceed. It would be an important element of the overall development of sport in the area.

Another unusual development in Carlow which highlights voluntary involvement in sporting organisations is the Carlow Rowing Club. Most of us might regard rowing as an elitist sport but there are almost 400 members in the club. The fact it has existed for almost 150 years is a reflection of the support it has received throughout the community, the county and neighbouring counties. The club is considering developing its range of sporting and social activities to encourage participation by young people in the town. This reflects a very positive approach to the development of local communities.

The sports council will not be in a position to act on its own. If it acts in conjunction with the Departments of Social, Community and Family Affairs and Environment and Local Government, it will have a huge resource at its disposal. By adopting a partnership approach, I believe the council will prove very beneficial to the development of young people and their communities.

Clubs should provide facilities for sporting as well as social activities involving elderly and actively retired people. Some people may want to participate in a limited way in club activities, perhaps through supporting the development and administration of a club or by participating actively in swimming or other sports. The sports council should consider this issue. The age at which people retire is decreasing and retired people would be well served by being involved in sport.

The use of drugs in Irish sport has been highlighted, although we have not been as seriously affected as other countries. The Minister outlined the steps which have been taken to keep sport free of substance abuse. Any action taken by the sports council in this regard will be supported. In recent years, the issue of substance abuse has made headlines in many countries. We should take whatever steps we can through education at primary school, club and community level to highlight this issue. It might perhaps offer the sports council an opportunity to arrange seminars and activities at club level to inform people that it is possible to participate in sport without relying on banned substances to improve performance. That important message must be conveyed in a positive manner. The initiative must come from club level upwards; advertising will not achieve the objective. The council must make a concerted effort to work with clubs on this issue.

I welcome the setting up of the sports council and commend the Minister.

I compliment the Minister on the introduction of this comprehensive Bill which is long overdue. The Bill sets out clearly the functions and other aspects of the council. In establishing the council and setting out clear policy guidelines, care must be taken to ensure the necessary financial commitment to meet objectives is put in place. Over the years, there has been strong criticism of the amount of financial commitment in the area of sport. Disappointment has been relatively widespread, particularly in smaller clubs and organisations, at the unavailability of national lottery funding as it was anticipated that a major proportion of lottery revenue would go into this area. I would support the Minister in whatever representations he might make to ensure the Minister for Finance provides the necessary budget to allow work in this area proceed.

It is difficult not to comment on the haphazard manner in which sport has been treated to date. Various voluntary and professional organisations, local authorities and vocational education committees have been involved in its provision. If the sports council could achieve some level of co-ordination and co-operation between the various organisations involved in sports provision, it would represent a significant achievement.

When one considers a Bill such as this, one tends to turn towards one's own constituency. One of the difficulties experienced in all constituencies, especially in the bigger towns, relates to the lack of adequate leisure and recreational facilities, be they swimming pools or playing fields. A very good case has been made by united sporting and leisure organisations in Ennis for the provision of playing facilities in the area. The group is currently undertaking the provision of 12 playing pitches in the town. Even that number is not adequate to meet the huge demand. There are many young soccer players, footballers and hurlers in Killaloe and other towns in County Clare but there is a great absence of facilities for them.

There is a grave necessity for investment in the provision of facilities. Such investment would ensure that young people would not be drawn into anti-social behaviour. I pay tribute to all those people in County Clare who, on a voluntary and professional basis, have worked so diligently in recent years to provide sporting facilities. Football and hurling clubs throughout County Clare have made great efforts to provide pitches, recreation halls and leisure facilities. It is an uphill struggle because there are so many organisations trying to raise funds. It is almost impossible to raise the level of funding required.

In developing long-term policy in this area care must be taken to back it up with the necessary finance. Travel costs alone put a burden on the families of promising young athletes, many of whom have had to abandon their aspirations because they cannot raise the finances necessary to avail of training and go to competitions.

I welcome this legislation. I assure the Minister of my fullest support and compliment him on bringing it forward and on the very innovative way he is approaching this issue.

I thank all 32 Deputies who contributed to this debate. Deputy Naughten mentioned Roscommon swimming pool. Deputy Seán Doherty, Senator Michael Finneran and others have made me fully aware of the disgraceful condition of Roscommon swimming pool, but I wonder what was done during the time of the previous Administration. I am quite sure it was in the same dilapidated and disgraceful condition at that time. I am taking that matter on board. I will send an official from my Department next week or the week after to look, in an official capacity, at the swimming pool, and I can assure the Deputy that during this Government's term of office, Roscommon swimming pool will be looked after.

I was not a Member of the House at that time. Otherwise it would have been done.

The introduction of this Bill coincided with the death of Noel Carroll. Many Deputies have paid tribute to him. As Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation I too pay tribute to the late Noel Carroll who was an Olympian athlete, Chief Executive of Dublin Chamber of Commerce and former spokesman for Dublin Corporation. These are just some of his more public titles. However, the measure of a man is not the number of titles he possesses but the manner in which he carries out the various roles in his daily living.

Noel Carroll exemplified an accomplished man, and did so in the humblest of ways. His life was lived to the fullest and at a pace that many of us could never attempt to emulate. His dedication to the task at hand was always more than 100 per cent. Whether it was the logistics for conferring freedom of Dublin City on President Clinton or as he coached student athletes at Belfield, his fierce determination to see things done the right way won many a day.

As a sportsman, Noel Carroll was the embodiment of what our ideal athlete should be. His involvement in sport was legendary. Both as a participant and as a mentor his contribution to Irish sporting successes was immeasurable. With the passing of time his loss will become more keenly felt and much more evident to all who are involved in sport. His premature death has left a great void in the lives of his wife Deirdre, their children, Enda, Nicola, Noel and Stephen, their grandchildren, his extended family, friends and colleagues. To all who knew Noel and mourn his sudden passing, on behalf of this House, I extend deepest sympathy.

I thank all 32 Deputies who contributed to the debate on this important legislation.

Sport is an integral part of our society and plays an important role in promoting personal and community development, in contributing to our economic and social prosperity and in improving the health and well-being of each of our citizens. The creation for the first time of a statutory sports council is intended to further enhance the role of sport in these areas, and I welcome the overwhelming support of the House for this Bill which enables the establishment of the council.

As we will go into greater detail on the various provisions of the Bill at the next Stage when I will deal with the many valid points raised, I will be brief in my response to the points raised by the Deputies on this Stage.

Deputy Allen asked that the Bill specifically provide for the Sports Council to have responsi bility for all lottery funding for sport – a sudden change in the Deputy's attitude – to allay any public suspicion that funding for projects is awarded on the basis of political consideration rather than on merit. The approach that has been adopted in the Bill is to provide an enabling framework which allows the level of funding to be determined by the Government of the day. I am sure Deputies would support that. Such a framework provides the scope for Governments, present and future, to apply the policy approach which they consider most appropriate at the time, having regard to national priorities in general and the needs of the sporting section in particular.

The review of the Sports Capital Programme and the issue of sports facilities generally were raised by almost all Deputies. The review group, comprising representatives of Government Departments and public authorities involved in facility provision, completed its deliberations late last year, following which a new programme has been developed with revised aims and objectives, assessment criteria, terms and conditions. I have already arranged to have the new application form and the guidelines relating to the new programme circulated to all Deputies for their information. That programme has been published in all the national newspapers and there has been a huge response to funding for this year.

As part of the new programme, applicants will be required to increase participation levels in their sport or recreation and to consult other facility providers in their areas with a view to avoiding overlap and duplication. The assessment process will involve consultation with Government Departments and agencies involved in the provision of facilities and with the national governing bodies of sport.

The main objective of the programme, and the one which picks up on a point raised consistently throughout the debate, is to promote a more strategic and co-ordinated approach to the use of available resources for sport and recreation, thereby giving better value for State investment. We have to have a more strategic development of sport – there are areas where there are four swimming pools along a 50 mile tract of road and none in other areas. We have to have a strategy of better State investment. There is approximately £16 million in funding, committed by various Governments, for projects which, for one reason or another, perhaps because grants were too small or were scattered too thinly, have never got to the stage of development. There is £16 million and more than 780 projects awaiting completion. I do not want to see plans in my Department. I want to see these plans, which show a huge level of entrepreneurial activity among the voluntary workers who put them forward, in three-dimensional form that people can use.

Deputy Allen also referred to the review of the outdoor education centres for which responsibility rests with the Department of Education and Science. I understand that the review is now complete and that a report was recently presented to the Minister for Education and Science who is now considering it.

Many Deputies emphasised the need for greater co-ordination between Departments and public bodies in the promotion and development of sport. This is an issue to which I have already referred in the context of the review of the sports capital programme. The Bill specifically addresses this issue by assigning the council, under section 6, with the specific function of co-ordinating recreational sports strategies and, under section 7, the powers to co-operate with, advise and assist various bodies, including all public authorities, in relation to its functions.

The recognition of bridge as a sport was raised by many Deputies. I am well aware of the level of interest and participation in bridge. There was a recognition of bridge in my party's manifesto. As I have already said in the House a number of times, my priority has been to prepare this legislation to provide a framework for the future execution of sports policy, including policy on sports bodies. The recognition of individual sports and recreational activities, including bridge, will be a matter for the Sports Council to consider in the context of its statutory remit. Given the level of interest that has been expressed in this issue, I will ask the Sports Council to examine it as a matter of priority upon its establishment.

The definition of sport in the Bill, raised by Deputies Ferris, Gilmore and others, is based on the internationally accepted Council of Europe definition as set out in the European Sports Charter. On a related matter, Deputy Ferris inquired as to the reason for splitting the definition into recreational and competitive sports categories. My aim here, and I know it is one shared by many Deputies, is to ensure that the council's focus is directed not just at high performance sports people who tend to capture the headlines, but also at the vast majority of people who want to participate in sport for recreation and enjoyment, regardless of age, sex or ability. The idea is that we do not provide only for the elite people who grab the headlines.

Deputy Ferris also noted that the Bill, while welcome, represents a missed opportunity in not providing for the creation of a body charged with addressing issues that form part of a social policy platform. The absence of specific functions to promote the full involvement of people with disabilities in sport and to target the facility and resource needs of disadvantaged areas were cited by the Deputy to support this view. I assure the Deputy that in framing the Bill these issues have not been overlooked. Section 9 requires the council to have regard to Government policy in carrying out its functions and to comply with policy directives issued by the Minister. As one of the cornerstones of this policy, the Government has committed itself to a fully inclusive society where every citizen has the opportunity and incentive to participate fully in the social and economic life of the country.

Initiatives such as the pilot programme for disadvantaged areas, the drugs initiative, the young people's facilities and services fund and the new sports capital programme serve to underline this commitment. The current Sports Council has established a task force on people with a disability in sport to bring forward proposals to ensure their greater participation in sport in the future. The Deputy might wish to re-read my Department's strategy statement which has prioritised participation in sport and recreation by disadvantaged communities.

Most Deputies in their contributions made reference to the issue of sport and physical education in schools. In relation to physical education, I share the Deputies' concerns about the quality of physical education provision in schools, as does my colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, who is responsible for this matter. In my opening address, I referred to the pilot project established earlier this year by the Department of Education and Science to introduce a new physical education curriculum in selected schools. This project is of particular significance in that it will help create the foundations for the successful introduction of a well-structured PE syllabus in our schools. The Minister for Education and Science is also keen to include PE as a recognised leaving certificate subject and to this end he has asked the NCCA to investigate the matter. I understand the Minister's intention is that PE be introduced into the leaving certificate curriculum in the school year 2001-02.

On a related matter, I share the view expressed by many Deputies that the promotion of greater participation in sport and physical activity requires an approach that begins at school level. The Sports Council has been in ongoing discussions with the Department of Education and Science to develop initiatives to enhance PE and sport in schools. A number of issues raised by Deputies, such as the question of teaching and coaching sport in schools and the links between school and community sport, are among the issues being discussed. I am confident that the establishment of the Sports Council on a statutory basis will facilitate the creation of even greater links with the Department of Education and Science in promoting enhanced participation by all our children in sport and physical activity.

The issue of drugs was also a common theme in contributions throughout the debate. Deputies will be aware of my well known abhorrence of the use of drugs in sport. The introduction of the national anti-doping programme has been one of my priorities since taking office. Deputy Allen questioned why the programme will not be operational until this year. As the Deputy is well aware, the introduction of the programme involves many complexities and clearly it is imperative that we get all the elements right from the beginning. This is a major initiative for Irish sport, with the testing programme in particular having the potential to significantly impact on the careers of individual sportsmen and women. The programme must have regard to legal issues, the views of all interested parties and the establishment of correct, complex operational procedures. All the necessary preparatory work on the logistics involved is now well under way. The Bill will unequivocally provide the statutory basis for the council to administer the anti-doping programme. I have every confidence that the Sports Council, when established, will operate the programme to the highest standards and will play a leading role in initiatives designed to combat this scourge.

A number of Deputies, including Deputy Hanafin, raised the issue of women in sport and the reasons there are lower participation rates in sport among women than men. The current Sports Council has established a task force to address this issue with the aim of formulating a series of realistic and actionable proposals to overcome barriers to women participating in sport. I expect the task force to report shortly and the findings to form the basis for the statutory Sports Council to promote greater participation by women in the future.

With regard to Sydney 2000 and preparation for these games, I consider that initiatives in the area of funding national governing bodies of sport, particularly the introduction of the international carding scheme for players and athletes, will provide a solid foundation for aspiring Olympians. It must not be forgotten, however, that the preparation and selection of Irish teams for Olympic Games is, quite rightly, a matter solely for the Olympic Council of Ireland. The OCI thus plays a pivotal role in the promotion of Irish sport and, in this context, both myself and the Sports Council have a genuine desire to continue to develop better relationships with it.

Ethics in sport was another theme running through most of the Deputies' contributions and, of course, the Bill provides for the Sports Council to specifically address this issue as part of its core functions. Deputies will be aware that earlier this year, in the aftermath of the issues raised by the Murphy inquiry, I reconvened the Code of Ethics Committee which was responsible for putting together the Code of Ethics in Sport. The committee has been given the task of updating the current publication to take account of the report of the inquiry and of important recent developments in the broad area of child protection.

Once again I thank Deputies for their contributions on Second Stage. They raised many valid points which will be of great benefit to us in furnishing a more comprehensive debate on Committee and Report Stages. I thank Members of the Opposition for allowing the Bill to pass through the House today and I look forward to hearing further contributions on Committee Stage concerning the points raised by Deputies. There is a great amount of co-operation on the Bill and I assure Deputies that any worthwhile amendments they bring forward will be considered.

(Carlow-Kilkenny): The Minister did not refer to the title in Irish. Proof that my case is valid is that a title was not mentioned in his speech and it is referred to as the Irish Sports Council Bill because he could not include the awful title it has at present. Did the Minister consider COSPÓIR?

Níl a lán Gaeilge agam – níl mo Ghaeilge ach go measartha – agus mar sin is fearr liom caint as Béarla. I will consider that matter.

Question put and agreed to.
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