Pat Rabbitte
Question:1 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his Department’s legislative priorities for the remainder of the Dáil; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21326/04]
Vol. 591 No. 3
1 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his Department’s legislative priorities for the remainder of the Dáil; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21326/04]
2 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach his Department’s legislative programme for the current Dáil session; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22393/04]
3 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach his Department’s legislative programme for the remainder of 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22468/04]
4 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach his Department’s legislative priorities for the remainder of this Dáil; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23420/04]
5 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach his legislative priorities for the remainder of 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24030/04]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.
My Department has two Bills before the Oireachtas this session, the National Economic and Social Development Office Bill 2002 and the Interpretation Bill 2002. The National Economic and Social Development Office Bill is awaiting Committee Stage. The Interpretation Bill, which has passed all Stages in this House, is awaiting Committee Stage in the Seanad. My Department also has one Bill included on the A list of the Government's legislative programme. This is the statute law revision Bill 2004, which will repeal irrelevant statutes and will be published this session.
Given that this group of questions is confined and that a large number of questions on Northern Ireland issues is coming up, I suggest that one supplementary question should be taken from each Member who submitted a question, followed by a reply from the Taoiseach. We will then move on to questions on Northern Ireland issues. Is that agreed?
On a point of order, the Taoiseach has been asked about legislative priorities. Are we to understand from his reply that legislation from other Departments is not a priority, even in terms of wanting it to be enacted?
The Taoiseach is responsible to the House on Question Time for his own Department.
I appreciate that but as Taoiseach he has an overall responsibility which goes beyond that.
The Deputy will have an opportunity. I do not mind suggesting to the House that in order not to curtail questions on Northern Ireland, we should limit the time we devote to this particular question.
The spirit of the question was certainly not to confine it to the reply that has been given.
The Deputy will have an opportunity to ask a supplementary question. Deputy Rabbitte submitted the first question.
I defer, Sir.
I repeat my question whether there is any procedure in this House for asking the Taoiseach about matters for which the Government has overall responsibility but which may not strictly be the responsibility of the Department of the Taoiseach. Is such a question ruled out under Standing Orders and if so, what is the avenue available to us?
Yes, Deputy, that is ruled out under Standing Orders in respect of questions to the Taoiseach. As the Deputy is aware, there are many other ways, Leaders' Questions being one of them.
I did not ask for an example. If the House is to deal with the legislative programme as it stands, with 11 out of 19 bills on the B list now promised for 2005 instead of 2004, is that not something for which the Taoiseach has responsibility?
No, Deputy. That is not the responsibility of the Taoiseach at this particular Question Time. The Taoiseach's responsibility in these questions is entirely to his own Department.
The Government's White Paper on regulatory reform contains a list of actions relating to the legislative process. Will the Taoiseach inform the House to what extent the promises made in that White Paper are being kept or will be kept in terms of better information flow to Members about upcoming legislation, for instance, the prior publication of the heads of a Bill? There is currently a less than sufficient information flow. How does the Taoiseach propose to better improve that flow in line with the commitments already stated by Government?
In reference to his own Department.
I do not wish to become obstreperous with the Ceann Comhairle as he has spoken to me already on this matter. Question No. 5 addresses the point made by Deputy Sargent and some clarification is required as to whether the Taoiseach has responsibility for the legislative programme as published under his stewardship. I appreciate that the first four questions are directed specifically to the Taoiseach and his Department's legislative programme. Question No. 5 concerns his own legislative priorities for the remainder of 2004. It is specifically directed to him in his capacity as Taoiseach because this programme is published by the Chief Whip in the Taoiseach's name. I ask the Ceann Comhairle for clarification as to whether the Taoiseach is debarred from addressing supplementary questions on other legislative priorities other than those relating to the Department of the Taoiseach and if so, by which Standing Order.
Under Standing Order 33, I think, but I will come back to the Deputy on that information, questions to the Taoiseach at this stage refer exclusively to his own Department. On the Order of Business, the Taoiseach answers questions on legislation specifically in regard to other Departments. If the Deputy wishes more detailed information, he should submit a question to the line Minister.
The Ceann Comhairle will know from long experience in this House that if one manages by whatever contrivance to have a question on the Order Paper, one is entitled to ask supplementary questions. The person to whom the question is addressed must give a response under the stewardship of whoever is Ceann Comhairle.
The Chair rules on this particular set of questions in accordance with precedent, that the questions refer specifically to the Taoiseach's own Department.
I ask the Ceann Comhairle to send me a further clarification of the ruling. I know the Taoiseach does not wish to be protected by the Chair and he is well able to answer for himself.
I do not wish the Deputy to go down that road.
I know that and I will not go down that road. I am just suggesting that if there is a question on the Order Paper it should be answered.
These questions deal specifically with the Taoiseach's Department. Only supplementary questions relevant to the questions are entitled to be asked.
On the legislation of my Department, I assure Deputy Ó Caoláin that whenever we can we put out the proposals in advance and I think we have done that. In regard to the Bills we are talking about, the interpretation Bill and the statute law revision Bill, we have put out the purpose of them and I have answered a number of questions on the record on the detail of them. Some time ago we did the same with the national economic and social development office Bill. I will raise with my colleagues the more general point the Deputy made.
6 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach when he last met the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; when he expects to next meet him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21328/04]
7 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his most recent contacts with the Northern Ireland political parties. [21329/04]
8 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent contacts with the United States Administration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21340/04]
9 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21420/04]
10 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21421/04]
11 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21422/04]
12 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21423/04]
13 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when the Forum on Peace and Reconciliation will next meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21428/04]
14 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to visit the United States; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21429/04]
15 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his role in the peace process since 8 July 2004, including his discussions with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21562/04]
16 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the Leeds Castle talks. [22143/04]
17 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his contacts with the Northern Ireland political parties during the Leeds Castle talks. [22144/04]
18 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the matters discussed and conclusions reached at his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister in Leeds Castle; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22380/04]
19 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the parties in Northern Ireland. [22383/04]
20 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the President of the United States of America; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22386/04]
21 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the US Administration. [22387/04]
22 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22388/04]
23 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the Leeds Castle meeting on Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22460/04]
24 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22461/04]
25 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the Northern Ireland political parties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22462/04]
26 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent contacts with the US Administration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22466/04]
27 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the progress in establishing a judicial inquiry into the murder of a person (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22469/04]
28 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting with a delegation from the DUP on 30 September 2004. [23238/04]
29 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with the British Government and the political parties in Northern Ireland since the ending of the Leeds Castle talks; his assessment of the prospects of concluding an agreement based on the Leeds Castle talks on the basis of these contacts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23239/04]
30 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his views on the announcement made by the British Government regarding the proposed inquiry into the murder of a person (details supplied); his further views on whether the announcement made meets the agreement entered into with the Irish Government at the Weston Park talks; if he has raised or plans to raise the matter with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23240/04]
31 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the DUP leader, Dr. Ian Paisley, in Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23296/04]
32 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if there are plans to convene a meeting of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation; his views on the future role of the forum; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23378/04]
33 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his participation in, and the outcome of, the Leeds Castle talks. [23421/04]
34 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach when the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation is next scheduled to meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23511/04]
35 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting in Dublin with the DUP leader, Dr. Ian Paisley; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24031/04]
36 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Sinn Féin in Dublin on 4 October 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25069/04]
37 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the discussions he had with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, on the margins of the ceremonies in Rome for the signing of the new European treaty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27164/04]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 37, inclusive, together.
After three days of intensive discussion at Leeds Castle with the Northern Ireland parties in September, both Prime Minister Blair and I said that we believed we could resolve the issues to do with ending paramilitary activity and putting weapons beyond use.
Immediately after the Leeds Castle talks, all the parties, supported by the two Governments, engaged further on a range of issues, including the review of the Good Friday Agreement, on which it was not possible to conclude agreement at Leeds Castle.
I met Dr. Paisley and Peter Robinson of the DUP on Thursday, 30 September, the first time that Dr. Paisley had come to Dublin to discuss political matters. It was an important meeting which lasted two hours and at which we discussed how we could make progress without interfering with the fundamentals of the Agreement.
At my meeting with Sinn Féin on Monday, 4 October, we had a further opportunity to discuss outstanding issues and to try to advance matters.
I met Prime Minister Blair again in the margins of the treaty ceremony in Rome where we briefly discussed developments. I hope that we can have further discussions at the European Council in Brussels later this week.
It is clear what is now necessary. We want to see a restoration of the Assembly and the Executive as soon as possible which would take account of the review of the operation of the Agreement. There must be a genuine, lasting and stable commitment to power-sharing. There must be the complete end to violence in all its forms and decommissioning of weapons. We want to see support across all sections of the community for the new policing arrangements in Northern Ireland and, of course, we want to see full implementation of the Joint Declaration which will also allow demilitarisation to move ahead.
After so many decades of conflict and turmoil the outstanding issues, while difficult, are very few indeed. If there is a will on all sides to finish this once and for all, I believe sincerely that it can be done. If agreement cannot be reached between the parties when it is clear it should be, we have said that we will find a different way to move this process forward.
I was very grateful to the US special envoy, Mitchell Reiss, for his attendance at Leeds Castle and the constructive role he played. While I have no immediate plans to visit the US, I know the special envoy is keeping the administration informed of progress.
While any meeting of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation is primarily a matter for the chairman and the parties, I would not anticipate an early meeting of this body.
I met Geraldine Finucane and the Finucane family on Thursday, 21 October. It has been my consistent view that this case necessitates a public inquiry. It was agreed at Weston Park in July 2001 that if a public inquiry was recommended following a thorough investigation of the allegations of collusion in this case, that recommendation would be implemented. Judge Cory's subsequent investigation stated that he was satisfied that there was a need for a public inquiry and that that inquiry should be held as quickly as possible. The inquiry announced recently by the British Government requires the introduction of new British legislation. It is obviously important that this legislation fulfils the Weston Park commitment and the requirements of Judge Cory.
In respect of the remarks made after the Leeds Castle talks — I believe the quote was something like "reasonable in substance and historic in meaning"— does the Taoiseach still believe the process is imbued with the same sense of optimism or does he think that optimism, in the immediate wake of the Leeds Castle talks, has waned somewhat? Will he indicate what he envisages now as the likely timeframe for developments in the process at this stage? What is his assessment of the prospects of agreement being reached between the parties? Is there any set of circumstances where the two Governments would have to advance their own proposals in the event of agreement not being forthcoming between the parties?
After three days in Leeds Castle, we stated we believed we could resolve the issues related to ending paramilitary activity and putting weapons beyond use. We did not get as far on the institutional matters, mainly due to time factors. There were also differences in substance and content but insufficient time was put into the discussions. We said we believed that, subject to a satisfactory outcome to the consultations, we could resolve the issue of arms and the politics of Northern Ireland and allow the two Governments to implement the remaining elements of the Joint Declaration agreed last year. That is the stage to which we brought the discussions.
As regards strands one, two and three, we said we believed we could get agreement but could not do so by changing the fundamentals. We made clear, from the Irish Government's point of view, how far we could go in this regard which, perhaps depending on how one argues, is not very far but at least we tried. A review was built into the Agreement in 1998 after the multi-party talks so obviously the intention was to have a review. Therefore, we must try at least to make some movement, particularly in areas where it is desirable to make moves.
On the Deputy's question regarding a date, since June we have been working on the basis that if we came to the anniversary of the election, which is on 26 November, and had not made sufficient progress, we would have to look at where we go from there. That has been the view since the meetings we had at Lancaster House in late June. More recently, if a change in legislation were required — most people believe legislative change would be needed — it would have to be included in the Queen's speech to the House of Commons on 23 November. That has been the timeframe to which we have been working.
On the Deputy's third question, the prospects have slowed since Leeds Castle. That is my view which is not one shared by everybody, but I will always give it as I see it on these questions. There are a number of reasons for this, some of which are related to negotiating positions and some to tactics. It is perhaps also because some people have not been involved previously in the process, particularly the DUP, which has not been engaged in this kind of discussion. Perhaps its systems are not yet geared up to the kind of arrangements one needs to make for these discussions, which is understandable since the party has tended, regrettably, either not to have been involved or only peripherally involved for the past six or seven years. It would have been better if it had been engaged. A further reason is that the DUP is holding to the position that it will not talk to Sinn Féin. Since the essential element of what we are trying to do is to reach a conclusion to these issues so that the DUP and Sinn Féin would become the central drivers in a new Executive with the other parties, that they are not talking to each other in any direct form makes the process slow and cumbersome. That is the way it is and one must follow what people set down as their negotiating positions.
I wish to place on record the other matter which probably worries me more. I hope it is not the intention of any party to play this long in tactical terms or play it out to the other side of the British election or, with certainty, the Northern Ireland local elections which are due next May. I cannot be certain that is the case but neither can I tell Deputy Rabbitte that I am certain it is not the case. I remain to be convinced. That would be worrying because then we would go past this date and a few more dates. If the British election is held in the summer, as is expected by many and has not been denied, the British then proceed to holding the EU Presidency and the G8 presidency. We can see where we will be on the agenda in that case and would certainly be drifting into 2006.
This is 2 November so we have 20 days. Otherwise it will drift along. I have taken the opportunity to talk and consult with all the parties on this and anybody I have not met has been met by the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern. I will talk to David Trimble tomorrow and I have talked to everybody else. I talked to the president of Sinn Féin last week and to the other parties recently — the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, has been doing the same — to emphasise that we must come to a resolution on this.
Deputy Rabbitte's last question was on our own proposals. This is where I did not want to go but we might get there. If we go past 25 November, the two Governments will have to consider the best way of progressing. Naturally, we have given some thought to that but not a lot because we did not want to go onto that ground. We will have to see the best way of advancing. That will be a key part of our discussions on Friday, when we hope to have a lengthy meeting in Brussels, if we cannot make progress in moving on. We will make one final effort. Some of the leaders of the parties will not be available during the next week but immediately on their return we will put our final position to the key parties and see if they will agree to move on. At that stage it will be clear what they want to do.
Nothing has changed. There are no new items. There is not much deviation from the old items either. It is well rehearsed ground at this stage. I never get to the stage where one gives up but the issues have been endlessly discussed to the point of frustration and I do not lead the list of the frustrated. We have talked inside out and upside down the issues of putting arms beyond use, demilitarisation, re-establishment of the institutions and the devolution of policing. There are not many issues, frankly, and all of them have been well and truly analysed. Everybody knows everybody's position. Even though they are not talking to each other, we have tried to act as a go-between.
That is my assessment of the current position.
Obviously, people are cynical about politicians in the South. Perhaps if something were done about the two thirds of people's salaries being paid when nothing is happening, it might focus attention.
The Taoiseach was in Vietnam when the Minister for Foreign Affairs made his comments about Sinn Féin. Those comments were clear from the Minister's point of view, namely, that he hoped a day would come when Sinn Féin would serve in Government in the Republic and that it was only a matter of time before that would happen. Did the Minister make those comments with the Taoiseach's imprimatur? What is the Taoiseach’s understanding of what the Minister meant? Does the Taoiseach envisage any circumstances, in the unlikely event that he has an opportunity after the next election to form a Government, of forming it with the Sinn Féin Party?
In respect of the meeting of the Secretary of State, Paul Murphy, with representatives of the UVF and the UDA, has the Taoiseach been consulted about the assurances the Secretary of State will seek from the representatives of these groups with regard to decommissioning? Will the issue of racially motivated attacks in Northern Ireland be an element of these discussions?
It is very worrying to see the increase in racially motivated attacks in Northern Ireland. There is now a higher incidence of racially motivated attacks in Belfast than in Britain and it appears British based fascist organisations have been involved in promoting racist activity in Northern Ireland. Has the Taoiseach had consultations with the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, in this regard? Has the Government discussed the issue or had any contact with the Northern Ireland parties about it? As sectarian violence decreases, it is unacceptable to see it being replaced with a weekly increase in the incidence of racially motivated attacks. The Taoiseach might comment on this.
On the Deputy's first question regarding Sinn Féin serving in Government, I made a political speech at the annual Fianna Fáil commemoration at Bodenstown where I comprehensively dealt with this issue. What happens in the future is for the future, but until we satisfactorily complete the Agreement and resolve all of the issues before us, there will be no change to the position I outlined in 2001. I am not prepared to speculate or make a guesstimate about what might happen in the future — that is a matter for the future. However, until we complete all of the business, there will be no change to the position.
I am glad the Secretary of State, Mr. Paul Murphy, is meeting with the loyalist organisations. We made that move earlier, at the beginning of this year. It is important he liaises with them and emphasises his position to them. We all condemn the racially discriminative actions in the North, and I discussed this issue with the Secretary of State in Leinster House in recent weeks. However, some 75% of all violence in Northern Ireland, which admittedly is declining in respect of shootings and violent attacks, is caused by loyalists, with most of the remainder caused by dissident republicans. There has been a huge shift. It is important to engage with the loyalists, although this engagement is not yet about getting them to decommission their arms but, as a first position, to try to get them to stop their activities. I understand the monitoring commission's most recent figures and figures to be published shortly will show the escalation of attacks on the loyalist side has been quite sharp while there has been a continuation of the significant drop in shootings, assaults and punishment beatings on the republican side.
I of course join with the Deputy in condemning racist attacks by whatever groups are involved. From what I could gather from the Secretary of State, Mr. Murphy, it is not clear from where the attacks are coming, what motivates them or what group is behind them. Although there is a feeling in Belfast that some groups are involved, he did not have a clear position on this.
As I stated recently to Dr. Paisley and have continually stated to Sinn Féin and to all parties, with regard to the move from paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland to criminality and the escalation of criminality of whatever type, whether in regard to drugs, fraud, trafficking of whatever type, robbery, including the stealing of large trucks carrying cigarettes, or otherwise, the ultimate resolution of this is policing in every community. I never quite understand and in debate usually totally disagree with those in Northern Ireland who state the devolution of policing should not happen in the shorter term. It should happen in the shorter term because only then will one get a stable and acceptable police force, representing all traditions, into areas to deal with criminality. As paramilitary activity ceases, if these issues are not replaced there will be difficulties. It would be nice if there were another way. I believe that an essential part of this settlement, or whenever we reach a final settlement, will be policing. The devolution and preparation of policing and Sinn Féin becoming part of it is an essential part of the next phase.
Will the Taoiseach accept that, in his earlier reply to Deputy Rabbitte, the phrase he employed "the fact that they are not talking to each other" could be construed that there were two parties which were refusing to engage with each other?
There is only one.
It is important that is clarified. Will the Taoiseach accept there is no middle ground between those who seek to hollow out and cut away the critical elements of the Good Friday Agreement, particularly the power-sharing and equality provisions, and those who seek its full implementation? Will he clarify his absolute commitment to the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, with no dilution of its terms, endorsed by the majority of the people on this island? That is fundamental to moving forward at all times.
Will he agree it is absurd, a scandal and a disgrace that ten years after the cessation of the IRA and six years after the Good Friday Agreement, there are more British soldiers on the streets and roadways of the North than are deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined? Some 12,000 British troops are based in the North. Is the Taoiseach aware that there is an increasing intrusiveness on the part of this military presence in the day-to-day lives of ordinary citizens? I experience being stopped at these road checks on a regular basis when travelling between Dundalk and Monaghan. This has not been a feature of life for a long time.
On 17 October, there was a British army helicopter incursion over Clones, County Monaghan. What steps has the Taoiseach taken to impress on the British Prime Minister the importance of earnest demilitarisation on the part of the British Government? This is not predicated on the resumption of the Assembly or establishment of a new Executive.
Sinn Féin is totally prepared to engage in discussions. There is no difficulty with it in terms of any of these discussions, in which it is more than ready to play its full part. It is regrettable the Democratic Unionist Party does not take the same view. If it did, it would make my life easier, as Deputy Ó Caoláin well knows. However, we must continue to find a resolution to that. I know that we will some day, particularly since Sinn Féin and the Democratic Unionist Party seem to work well together in many local authority areas. However, these things take time. There is no difficulty with the other parties working together and as time goes on I hope we will reach a similar position with the Democratic Unionist Party.
I have no difficulty with what Deputy Ó Caoláin said on the Good Friday Agreement. We are totally committed to the full implementation of the Agreement, as voted on by the people. That includes the clause that there would be a review of the Agreement. I have had this argument with many people. One cannot say that one wants full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement except for one section, namely, the review. It is a fair position that if we included the provision for a review in April 1998, we did not do so for the sake of it. It was included so that we would review the Agreement some day. That is all we are doing. I do not believe there is anything that fundamentally changes, alters or affects the Good Friday Agreement.
As Deputy Ó Caoláin is aware, issues around that arose at the Leeds Castle meeting. It would have been entertaining for me if it were not so serious to see that Sinn Féin, the SDLP and the UUP all said there should be no change in the Agreement and I was almost put in a position where I had to defend the rights of the DUP, mainly because it was not in the meetings with the others. Deputy Ó Caoláin will understand why I took on the defence of the rights of the DUP for those three days. If the provision for a review is included in the Good Friday Agreement, one cannot say that a review that does not do much other than improve it is changing the fundamentals. I argued that for three days at Leeds Castle and I continue to argue it because it is an unfair position on the DUP. It is a funny situation to have me defending the rights of that party but fairness in this is important. It has a valid position on this, namely, to have a review for six months and make no changes, because all the time we said there would be legislative changes. Other than that I have no argument with the other points the Deputy made and I agree with them. We are trying to get the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and that is what we will continue to try to implement one way or the other.
On demilitarisation, it is the case, as Deputy Ó Caoláin and every other Member of the House is aware, that in the same week when everybody was getting excited about a sizeable number of British troops — 780 — moving into Iraq, there was, as described by Deputy Ó Caoláin, for some reason an activation of about 4,500 British troops and nobody said anything. I assure Deputy Ó Caoláin that I raised the matter with the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. We raise every incident. I am not too sure why the troop activation took place. I thought they might have been getting ready to go back to the acceptable levels which we want to achieve.
Deputy Ó Caoláin knows what we have agreed, namely, to return to an acceptable level of 6,500 troops or whatever number is in the Joint Declaration. That has already been negotiated and agreed. If we can get everything else ready, then we will move to that position. We have moved from larger numbers and it is in all our interests to try to complete matters and move to the much lower figure that has already been negotiated.
Is it not clear that whatever about Sinn Féin, the DUP will not finalise agreement before the general election due to be held in Britain and Northern Ireland next year because it seeks to maximise its vote in that sectarian part of the divide and trump its rivals? Does the Taoiseach accept that, unfortunately, after ten years of a so-called peace process, polarisation in the communities, including their physical separation, is as never before, is at a higher level than ever and the Agreement has not changed that?
It is a long time since we asked the Taoiseach to report on his discussions with Prime Minister Blair or representatives of the United States Administration on the situation in Iraq. Will he do so now because since we last discussed it, several reports have conclusively stated there were no weapons of mass destruction and that it was a lie to say there were? Has Mr. Blair apologised to the Taoiseach——
It is not appropriate to use the word "lie" in the House. Will Deputy Higgins ask a brief question, please?
Has Mr. Blair apologised to the Taoiseach for misleading him and causing him to mislead the people when he faithfully repeated the claims that were made? Should he not now explain that situation, particularly when it has emerged in Lancet magazine that 100,000 innocent Iraqis may have died as a result of violence? Is it not time to stop the ongoing logistical support for the US occupation?
Deputy Higgins asked me three questions. In response to the first, it is not clearly obvious, as he states, that the DUP does not want agreement. There are elements within the DUP who I fear might hold that position but they not have said so privately or publicly. As I said to Deputy Rabbitte earlier, in a matter of 20 days or so we will know what the tactic is and will have to see that through. I hope that is not the position because it would create difficulties for everyone. From a political point of view in Northern Ireland it is not that clever on the basis that it will maximise the DUP vote. That is not the position at all. It will open up a new situation for the UUP party which is ready and will relish the effort of exploiting it if that becomes the position. So be it. That is a fair position for Mr. Trimble to take because he was berated for not completing a deal a year ago this week.
On the issue of sectarianism it depends where it is. In many areas the communities are working together as are the political parties. I have already mentioned that in many areas the DUP, Sinn Féin, the SDLP and other parties are working more closely than ever on local issues, in communities, on councils, and going very well. In parts of Belfast and some other areas it is very bad. The Deputy's comment would definitely relate to them. There is more polarisation, more segregation and more movement of decent, respectable people from the communities because of harassment by various paramilitary or criminal elements, which is worrying. I do not want to set aside the great effort that has been made, and was made this summer, by all the political parties, to different degrees. In Belfast Sinn Féin worked during the difficult days in July and August to try to cool the tensions in these areas. While there are problems in these areas much progress has been made in other areas.
I had no discussion Mitchell Reiss about the situation in Iraq. It is not his area. He was here to help us with the Northern Ireland peace process. I answered questions last week on the visit by Kofi Annan and explained what he said and my response. I have nothing to add to that.
From time to time I have mentioned a truth and reconciliation commission. Is the Taoiseach aware of the interest expressed by the Independent Monitoring Commission in how such a commission has come into being in post-conflict situations in different parts of the world? Was there any discussion of, or reference to, such a commission at the meeting in Leeds Castle? Would the Taoiseach look into this to explore when the time comes whether it is appropriate to have some research to suit the circumstances pertaining on this island?
Does he agree the racist attacks which have been mentioned reveal not so much a degree of sectarianism but a difficulty with "otherness"? Anything that seems different from one's own position seems to cause inordinate problems in Northern Ireland but not only there, it applies also in this jurisdiction.
There may be no great desire amongst parties north of the Border to revive the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation but does the Taoiseach accept that in this jurisdiction there is a gaping hole in the Oireachtas approach to the peace process? The Government parties and Sinn Féin are fully engaged but the other Opposition parties are effectively disenfranchised, as are the people who supported the Good Friday Agreement because there is no vehicle for Opposition parties other than what, unfortunately, we must call megaphone diplomacy in the forum in which we are currently engaged. I often hear this decried in the North as inappropriate but it seems to be the only option here.
An bhfuil eolas ag an Taoiseach faoin obair mhaith atá ar siúl ag Foras na Gaeilge ar an dá thaobh den Teorainn, go mórmhór maidir le nuachtán atá faoi bhagairt faoi láthair, Lá? Tá urlabhraí thar ceann na teanga Albainnis Uladh ag iarraidh an deontas a bhaint den nuachtán sin. Baineann sé sin leis an dá thaobh den Teorainn agus ba mhaith liom go ndéarfadh an Taoiseach leis na h-údaráis ó Thuaidh go bhfuil suim againn agus gur mian linn leanúint ar aghaidh leis an nuachtán sin agus nár cheart an deontas a bhaint de.
The register of persons who are considered unsafe to work with children arose from the North-South Ministerial Council. That legislation has been promised to give effect to the child protection joint working group from September 2003. Can we see it, given that it is the fruit of work that has been done across the North-South Ministerial Council? When will it be brought to the House?
Has the Taoiseach had any direct contact with the Reverend Ian Paisley since his meeting with him in Dublin? Has the Taoiseach planned a trip to the US to meet either a returned or new President to continue or renew assistance for co-operation in having the Northern Ireland peace process brought to a conclusion?
Has either of the two Governments taken the report of the International Monitoring Commission? Does the Taoiseach think it is helpful? I presume we can take the Taoiseach's earlier answer on the fears articulated, especially by the SDLP, that to enlist the support of the DUP, fundamental changes might be made to the Agreement. We can take from what the Taoiseach has said that his Government is certainly committed to protecting the core principles of the Agreement.
As the Taoiseach knows, the British Irish Agreement (Amendment) Act 2002 provides for special arrangements to be made for the implementation bodies during what was described at the time as a temporary suspension of the Assembly and the Executive. The word "temporary" is used no less than 11 times in the Act. Does the Taoiseach accept that these temporary arrangements cannot remain in place indefinitely? If they do, serious questions will arise about the compatibility with those parts of the Good Friday Agreement that are enshrined in Article 29.7 of the Constitution.
In 1995 and 1996 we did much work on a truth and reconciliation commission in the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation, when President de Klerk visited. On three or four occasions since, the issue surfaced. There is not great interest on taking it up, but it remains an issue. If at any time we believe it might be useful in the process and might help the communities, then we would use it. I am fairly certain that that is not the road they would go. I take the Deputy's point on a forum for peace that at times it can be useful. When we see which way this is going in the next few weeks, the chairman and the parties can look at it.
I have spoken to the chairperson of Foras na Gaeilge recently about a number of difficulties that it had. I have arranged meetings between Foras na Gaeilge and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív. Some of them are about funding, some are about newspapers, some of them are on other issues. We are dealing with those issues. The element regarding the North-South bodies is continuing. In answer to Deputy Rabbitte's question, it would be very difficult to continue indefinitely. We had quite a task with the UUP to get this arrangement to start and to keep the bodies going.
We had quite a difficulty at Christmas 2002. It settled down and they operated the system. As the Deputy is aware, it was to operate for six months, or a maximum of nine months. Ultimately, if somebody was to challenge these issues, the present arrangements probably would not stand up and we are all aware of that. It is another reason we should try to find a resolution.
We have to be very careful because the North-South bodies comprise a major part of the fundamental Agreement. I refer not only to the implementation bodies but to all the other bodies which have been built around them. If it were to happen that we did not have an Executive or an Assembly, I do not doubt that it would be argued, by one side or the other, that we should not have the North-South body structures. Up to now, all sides, including the Unionist and loyalist groupings, have been prepared to work it as per the arrangement, thankfully.
A small group of my senior officials has had a number of face-to-face meetings with Dr. Paisley. I have not had such direct involvement, but I have been in touch with DUP members. Two of my senior officials have had a number of face-to-face meetings with him in the recent past.
I was also asked about the US presidential election. The new President or the re-elected President will not be inaugurated until the end of January. There would normally be a meeting with the President on St. Patrick's Day, but not before that.
Deputy Rabbitte also asked about the latest IMC report. I am broadly familiar with it because I have been briefed on it. I have not seen all the details of the report, which will be issued by both Governments. We hope to finalise it this week after some further work has been done. I hope it will be done this week. Under the relevant procedure, the two Governments have to act simultaneously on it. I understand that will be on Thursday or Friday, but I am subject to correction.
In response to Deputy Rabbitte's final question, the SDLP has been very helpful on this. It has expressed its concerns about the Agreement during a number of detailed and lengthy meetings with the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern. I met representatives of the SDLP in September and they met the Minister in October. We have worked with them because, in fairness to them, they have followed the detail of this from the start. They have taken a particular interest in the cross-strand issues. Mr. Mark Durkan has been one of the foremost people on the detail of this for several years. We have been through it with him on a number of occasions.
What about the register of persons considered unsafe to work with children?
That concludes Taoiseach's questions.
Why is it uncertain?