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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 11 Dec 2012

Vol. 785 No. 5

Leaders' Questions

Most people across the country agree that last week's budget was deeply unfair and a very brutal one on the poorest and lowest income families. Today sees the commencement of the Social Welfare Bill. What has emerged from all of the disarray within Government prior to the formulation of this particular budget is the absolute determination of the Fine Gael members of Government to protect, at all costs, the wealthiest in society.

We were told over the weekend that the Labour Party members walked out of that fateful Cabinet meeting on the budget because of Fine Gael's insistence that welfare rates across 31 schemes would have to be cut if the universal social charge was increased. This has been leaked authoritatively by the Taoiseach's sources and Ministers. The Labour Party walked out at that moment against that insistence, but the big question is why it walked back in again.

No one walked out.

That is because they stayed bought.

Did it walk back in to add taxes on lower paid workers and cut child benefit, jobseeker's benefit and the respite grant for 77,000 people? In so doing it has broken every promise it made to the people of Ireland prior to the election. It is no wonder a newspaper columnist described it as a junta of Judases. There is a real sense of betrayal across the land given what has occurred. On Sunday the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, stated that Labour Party promises in advance of an election are always made to be broken.

The respite grant has been cut for 77,000 people. It is a slap in the face to these individuals and it undermines their value in society. Every Deputy in this House will say, either privately or publicly, that they would love to have that cut reversed because, on top of changes to home help hours, it attacks those with intellectual and physical disabilities, the frail and vulnerable elderly and those invalided at home, and it sends out a message that is appallingly mean-spirited and contemptuous. I ask the Taoiseach to agree with the vast majority of Members of from all parties in this House by, at the very least, committing to reversing this cut in advance of our deliberations on the Social Welfare Bill.

I would not believe all that I read in the newspapers.

I would not believe Time magazine.

The Deputy's acceptance of newspaper reports as the truth is far removed from reality.

I would not believe Fine Gael's manifesto either.

Or that of the Labour Party.

The position is that a number of weeks before the budget was presented by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Martin and others put forward the proposition that the old age pension was going to be cut-----

I never said that.

-----that the travel allowance was going to be cut, that the electricity allowance was going to be cut-----

-----and that the half-rate carer's allowance and the bereavement grant were going to go.

That was the Minister of State, Deputy Ring.

Please allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

This budget is not about any particular party; it is about our people and our country.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The mess that was left for us to clean up requires difficult decisions that have an impact on people's lives. Nobody denies that, but the point is that we have to make choices in a situation like this because our country will never be right unless we put order on our public finances and restore our economy to good health. In that sense the Government set out with a deliberate decision to take more than €500 million from those who can best afford it. That will apply now and for the future. I think the Deputy shares that sentiment and he possibly expressed it.

I understand from speaking to carers that this is difficult. The point, however, is that the carer's package and the carer's allowance have been protected because we value what the carers themselves expressed in producing and publishing the report on carers and what they require earlier this year. As long ago as 2006, Deputy Martin's party in Government spent €128,000 on a report about this and then did nothing about it. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, has worked assiduously on this since last year and, working with the carers' associations and groups, produced the fine report which we would like to see implemented, although, unfortunately, financial circumstances do not allow us to do everything we would like.

The carer's package and the home care package have been untouched. The carer's allowance is untouched. The question of the half-rate carer's allowance is untouched. The respite grant has been reduced to 2006 and 2007 levels. It would be nice for the Minister for Finance to stand up and have the opportunity on budget day to give out increased facilities for a range of sectors. That is just not possible. I accept it has an impact on a number of people but the vast majority of social protection allowances have not been touched. The Government focused on two areas in so far as social protection was concerned but our remit has been to protect the vast majority of the rates paid under social protection and the vast majority of the allowances and facilities that are currently available.

Another columnist this morning described the interview that the Taoiseach conducted last Wednesday evening regarding the budget as "a stream of banal inanities", a "crumbling of language" and a load of "inarticulate drivel". I would not apply all of that to what the Taoiseach has just said but I would apply it to the initial part of his response.

It sounds more like Deputy Martin.

We did not predict anything that he suggested. At exactly this moment last year, he reversed the budget decision on the disability allowance and DEIS schools. The Minister for Education and Skills apologised for his attack on carers. He has yet to apologise to the students of Ireland but at least he apologised to DEIS schools for his attack and he reversed that measure. A majority in this House want the respite grant cut to be reversed. The Taoiseach can reverse it and even a marginal increase in the universal social charge would enable him to do so. However, he seems determined to continue on and suppress dissent, as is evident in the ramming through of this measure this week with the guillotining of the Social Welfare Bill and, on Friday, other measures. He appears to want to hammer Labour Party backbenchers into submission. Why is he doing this? Is it to protect the highest paid in the land? That is what he has leaked across the board. To protect the highest paid in the land he is prepared to stand over this and he will brook no dissent from Labour Party backbenchers or anyone else.

One would think Deputy Martin was not in the previous Government.

We are now over time. Will the Deputy adhere to the Chair's ruling?

He is parading around as some sort of new Ireland chancellor, determined to get his way and giving in to nobody.

The Deputy has learned nothing from being in Government.

I urge the Taoiseach to stand back, reflect on his decision and reverse this cut because it sends out a message that the budget is mean-spirited and shows utter contempt for those who care for the less well off and most vulnerable in our society.

The Deputy could refer his words to his own actions, with his inarticulate drivel and his untruthful and hypocritical comments about the property tax, which he signed up to but does not want introduced yet. In the middle of a children's referendum he circulated leaflets in his constituency stating it was the wrong time to do something he signed on for and designed himself.

As I pointed out, the carer's strategy was agreed and published by the Minister of State at the Department of Health in conformity with what the carers themselves expressed as the principal issues.

On the respite grant.

The estimated expenditure in 2012 on carers is more than €771 million, with €509 million being spent on carer's allowance, €24 million on carer's benefit, €135 million on the respite care grant and €103 million on the domiciliary care allowance. That represents an increase of more than €20 million on expenditure in the carer area compared to 2011. More than 51,000 people receive the carer's allowance - which was not touched - of whom almost 22,000 get the half-rate carer's allowance in addition to other social welfare payments at an annual cost of €90 million. More than 1,600 people receive the carer's benefit and the numbers in receipt of carer's allowance have increased by more than 150% over the last decade, from 20,000 in 2001 to 52,000 in 2011. Expenditure on the carer's allowance scheme has increased by more than 220% over that period.

Over the decade.

I do not accept the Deputy's question about unpicking elements of the budget. His attack on the Labour Party is utterly hypocritical and opportunistic. He is under pressure from his colleagues on the far side of the House.

Is that the note from the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte?

He chose to pick on the Labour Party.

The poor Labour Party.

The budget presented by the Minister for Finance is not about the Fine Gael Party or the Labour Party; rather, it is about Ireland and its people.

It is about protecting the rich.

It was the Taoiseach who leaked it. He told the journalist.

It is about the Government having the conviction and the courage to clean up the inordinate mess left behind by the most incompetent, out of touch, arrogant Government of the past 50 years.

Surpassed only by the Government.

We will do this, taking into account the circumstances in which so many find themselves. People all over the country say to me that they know difficult decisions must be made in the interests of all the people.

Sarah Palin would not be a patch on the Government. Fine Gael is the Tea Party.

I would love to be able to say to the Deputy that instead of cuts in this area, the reverse will happen, but that is not the case. The budget is about freeing the economy and opportunities for the many hard-pressed middle income families who will never get out of this rut unless the Government makes hard decisions in the interests of all the people and the country.

Never, not with the way the Taoiseach answers questions.

Blame the Labour Party when it is on the backs of carers. Is that it?

It ill behoves the Deputy to attack the Labour Party, in particular, as if the budget belongs to it.

(Interruptions).

The budget is about the people and the country. We will stand over it and attempt to implement these decisions with care, compassion and consideration and in the best way possible.

The Government drove a stake into the heart of the Labour Party.

We have protected the majority of allowances paid under the social protection code. I have given details of the increased figure of €20 million and indicated where it will be spent next year.

We had the most regressive budget last year and again this year.

Things are bad now.

It is more in sadness than in anger that I must say the Taoiseach just does not get it. The budget is all about the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party. It tells us everything we need to know about the two parties. There is huge anger among the people about the cuts and the new taxes the Government has introduced to target citizens who are unable to pay. It is not that they will not pay, they cannot pay. I was at a public meeting last night in Dundalk when I saw raw emotion and despair. I heard a mother say women had a sense of failure in having to admit they could not feed their children. That is what she said. People are deeply incensed by the cuts to child benefit and the back to school allowance, by the taxing of maternity benefit, the increase in PRSI, increased prescription charges and the tax on the family home. However, what has really incensed them, although they are not affected, are the cuts to the respite care grant, through which the Government is picking the pockets of 77,000 citizens. The respite care grant is hugely important to the families involved. Leaving aside the ethics, cutting the grant is bad economics. If the State had to pay for the care the families concerned provide 24 hours a day, seven days a week, it would not be able to bear the cost. If the Taoiseach does not get this - sitting in a row of millionaires - it is because he is taking home €200,000 a year. Therefore, he does not understand what it is like to have to get kids back to school.

We do not have a house in the North and the South.

Please allow the Deputy to continue.

Those listening to the Taoiseach will not be encouraged that he has a sense of their plight. Ministers take home over €3,000 a week. The Government has broken the cap for special advisers and refuses to consider alternatives. If I was to bring in the woman who spoke last night and she was to plead with the Taoiseach to reverse this cut, would he do it? On her behalf, I ask him to reverse it. There are alternative ways of raising the money. Will the Taoiseach consider reversing this dreadful cut which will affect people who just cannot afford to take it?

I was in Phibsboro last Saturday with Deputy Paschal Donohoe when I met some of Deputy Gerry Adams's supporters on the street who were handing out leaflets attacking the Labour Party, but these supporters were not able to answer any question about any of the issues mentioned on the leaflets regarding the fantasy economics in which Sinn Féin was engaged. The Deputy has made a disgraceful comment about Ministers. I assure him that none of them was funded by the assets of Northern Bank.

Deputy Gerry Adams knows very little about taxation matters if he makes a comment like the one he has just made. However, I will not go back over history to hear the Deputy expound on many elements of the truth. It ill behoves him to talk about the raw emotion of women, in particular, having regard to some of the incidents that occurred in his lifetime and with which he was associated, which resulted not in just raw emotion but which had tragic consequences. I will not take that from the Deputy and it is beneath him to carry on like that.

Carer's allowance in Northern Ireland is £58.45. Having made the decision on the bigger issue to sort out the public finances and put the economy in shape for the future and having made decisions on child benefit and the respite care grant, the carer's allowance, the carer's package, the homecare package and the half-rate carer's allowance all remain untouched. The respite care grant stands at a figure of €1,375, although for many, this is not enough and never will be. I have given the Deputy the numbers for those in receipt of the allowance. As he is aware, payment of the allowance is unconditional because of our appreciation for what carers actually do. This is reflected in the carers' strategy which was published by the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, earlier this year and accepted by all and which we would like to see implemented.

As the truth goes, although this might be scarce in the Deputy's repertoire, financial circumstances do not permit us to pay all we would like to in these difficult days. It is not a case of elements of the budget being reversed on a whim. This has been a very difficult budget to put together and we recognise it is trying for many, but we must get the country out of its difficulties. As I said to Deputy Micheál Martin, over €500 million extra will come from those who can best afford to pay.

I never thought the Taoiseach would make me laugh on this day, but his stupid remark about the Northern Bank in response to a serious question made me laugh. Second, he referred to events in my life and women. That is below him and diminishes the office he holds. Sinn Féin Members and I are here with a mandate. We have been mandated to raise the issues we are raising. The Taoiseach was never given a mandate to do what he is doing. He was not sent here to cut the allowances of carers. He was not sent here to cut child benefit or maternity benefit. He asked for and was given a mandate to do the exact opposite. He can be tough with the people concerned and say the things he does across the floor, but he kowtows to his masters in Europe. He kowtowed to the big bankers and the golden circles who got us into this difficulty. He should cut out the waffle and the rubbish and answer the question. He should show some compassion. He says the budget is difficult for him, but, with respect, it is not the least bit difficult for him. This is the easy choice to make, to tackle those who are not organised and who are vulnerable and on the margins.

If the Deputy had showed compassion 15 or 20 years ago, it would have made a big difference.

The difficult choice is to tackle the powerful elements. However, it is the interests of the more powerful that the Taoiseach's party acts and - shame on it - that increasingly the Labour Party acts. I noted the Taoiseach's defence of the Labour Party. I asked him a question.

I asked him if he would listen to the woman who spoke at last night's public meeting in Dundalk if she was standing here today appealing to him to reverse this cut. He will not listen to me - he prefers to mess about and rubbish what I say - but surely he will listen to this woman, at least.

I meet carers from all over the country. I know the pressure and stress they are under. I know the pressure and stress many in mortgage distress and negative equity are under. I know the difficulties of those who are unemployed who lost their jobs and cannot find new work. I know the despair in the minds of some young people who are choosing to emigrate because they cannot see a future.

The Taoiseach should do something about it.

The Government must attempt to deal with all of these circumstances and problems. There is no easy solution to the range of problems the Government faces. With respect to all of those who went before me, few of them ever had to face the scale of the economic challenge we now face. In response to the Deputy's comment about his past business, I had this out with him a number of weeks ago. I would love to hear him speak the truth about some elements of his past.

If the Taoiseach arranges a special debate, we can talk about that issue.

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

We are talking about carer's allowances, for which the Taoiseach is responsible.

The Deputy is good at giving it, but he will not respond to it.

Deputy Gerry Adams has made the charge; he should now cut out the waffle and engage in some straight talking. Perhaps some day he might tell the truth about the tragedy, the remorse and the compassion that should have been shown to Jean McConville.

Maybe some day.

Maybe Deputy Gerry Adams might do that some time.

I will express, as I have done before-----

The Deputy should not shake his hand in the Chamber.

-----my sincere regret for what happened to Jean McConville.

The Deputy was never a member of the IRA.

I will ask the Taoiseach again to deal with-----

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

A Cheann Comhairle, when this issue was raised before, you said to me you would ensure these types of things were not said in the Chamber.

Does the Deputy think people should not be allowed to tell the truth?

I ask Deputies to ask questions rather than answering them.

On a point of order, a serious charge has been made by the Taoiseach.

It is the truth.

A Cheann Comhairle, you are there to defend my right to represent the mandate I was given by asking questions of the Taoiseach.

There are other ways of dealing with the issue.

I did not raise it.

The Deputy asked a question and received an answer he did not like.

There are other ways of making the point-----

What are they?

-----without breaching Standing Orders.

I am not breaching them.

If the Deputy wishes to come to my office-----

I went to your office before.

-----I will outline the way he can do it.

I want the Taoiseach to withdraw that remark.

That is a matter for the Taoiseach. I cannot force anybody to do that.

I know you cannot force anybody, but the Taoiseach is diminishing his office.

Can we get back to Leaders' Questions, please?

It is so easy for people to make-----

The time allowed has expired. We are four minutes over time.

-----totally unsubstantiated allegations in order to disguise their own responsibility-----

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

-----for what they are doing to working people in the State.

It is the hypocrisy that is the issue.

The Minister should not dare to talk about hypocrisy.

The Minister is talking about hypocrisy - God almighty.

Will I find myself in trouble in a dark alley some night?

All of the backbenchers who are heckling are going to the newspapers to say they will confront the Minister about all of these cuts and how much they care about carer's issues.

Would the Deputy mind-----

This is their chance to show they care, but instead they are heckling.

I ask the Deputy to respect the Chair.

It is a nonsense-----

I am trying to maintain order.

-----that all of these hecklers are telling their local newspapers how much they care.

Will Deputy Gerry Adams ask the person beside him to behave himself?

They do not care a damn. We will see in a few days time how they will vote.

I remind Members to co-operate with the Chair. The Chair cannot operate if Members do not adhere to the rules that give them two minutes in which to ask a question, three minutes for the reply and one minute for a supplementary question. I ask both sides to stick to this.

On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle has spoken about keeping to the rules.

I will not ask the Deputy again.

If the Taoiseach can make the type of remark he made-----

I will suspend the sitting if the Deputy does not resume his seat.

I want the Taoiseach to withdraw his remark.

I will suspend the sitting. Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

No, I will not.

Then I suspend the sitting for ten minutes.

Sitting suspended at 3.45 p.m. and resumed at 3.55 p.m.

I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

On a point of order-----

What is your point of order, Deputy?

I would like you to ask the Taoiseach to withdraw his remark-----

That is not a point of order. I have asked you to obey the Chair. I have called Deputy Boyd Barrett. If you continue to interrupt, I will have to ask you to leave the House.

A Cheann Comhairle-----

Please co-operate with the Chair. We have had enough damage done today.

Can I just-----

I have called Deputy Boyd Barrett. It is not a point of order.

Excuse me, can I please make my point?

Please resume your seat, Deputy.

Can I please make my point?

Will you please resume your seat and adhere to the wishes of the Chair?

Then tell me what procedure I can use to ask you very reasonably-----

If you care to come to me afterwards, I will advise you as best I can.

Let us do it openly.

Excuse me. We will not lecture the Chair as to how-----

I am not lecturing the Chair; I am asking you a question.

Will you please resume your seat? I am on my feet. I will not be lectured. I have called Deputy Boyd Barrett. I have told you that if you wish to come to see me, I will go through the issue with you and we will see what we can do. I have called Deputy Boyd Barrett and that is it.

I am looking for guidance.

A Deputy

The Deputy needs a map to his office.

Otherwise, you will be asked to leave the Chamber because you are ignoring the Chair. You cannot question the authority of the Chair like this. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

I am making a request of the Chair-----

I have told you what it is.

I am making a request of the Chair to ask the Taoiseach to withdraw his remark.

You are not making any request at all. I ask Deputy Boyd Barrett to resume.

I am sure the public looking on find this whole spectacle pretty depressing.

They will be delighted when they hear the Deputy.

It is about to get worse.

Will Deputy Boyd Barrett please get on with his question and not add petrol to the flames?

I am not going to do that. The people of this country are not worried about political spats between parties-----

Will you please ask your question? You have two minutes and you have already lost 18 seconds.

The people of this country are not interested in political spats at the moment, they are interested in survival, a fact confirmed by the ESRI today, which shows that more than one in five households in this country suffers from joblessness and they are doubly and trebly hit by having to support large families and support disability and by being concentrated in low paid work. The report reveals the shameful fact that, contrary to the Taoiseach's repeated claims we are in a better position than Greece or Spain, Ireland is one of the most, if not the most, unequal societies in Europe.

The Taoiseach's budget has chosen to attack precisely this group yet again. He has attacked children, he has attacked women, he has attacked the disabled and he has attacked low paid workers. In many cases, it will be the same households hit from the left, hit from the right, hit from the middle and stabbed in the back with these cuts to vital supports and to the income they desperately need to keep their heads above water, despite the solemn promises made by the Taoiseach to prioritise the disabled and made by the Labour Party three days before the general election that it would not touch child benefit.

Can the Taoiseach seriously claim this budget is fair? Is he not ashamed to have betrayed the trust of the people who voted for him and the people who voted for the Labour Party in visiting these attacks on precisely the groups he promised he would protect?

The mandate given to this Government comprised of two parties, the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, is to deal with the problem that our country faces. That problem is that our finances were way out of line and the structures and the way business was being conducted in this country could not, cannot and will not continue in that fashion. This Government has a mandate from the people to sort that out and give our country back to our people. Far from assuming that if we leave things as they are, they will rectify themselves, they will not rectify themselves - even the Deputy knows that.

Let me repeat the facts. The Deputy and others, prior to this budget, were out on the streets, as they are perfectly entitled to do, saying that all of these allowances would be decimated, savaged or abolished. In fact, the old-age pension was not cut in the budget, free travel was not cut, the carer's allowance was not cut, the half-rate carer's allowance was not cut and home care packages were not cut. In the area of social protection, the Government increased the ceiling of expenditure and added a further €100 million in order to protect the issues we are concerned about. It is not a case of deciding that one can increase everything that is there. I understand, as does the Deputy, the pressure that many people are under. He rightly raises the report published today in respect of joblessness in this country. That is what this budget is actually about - jobs and opportunities and giving small and medium enterprises, the backbone of any economy, the chance to flourish and prosper. That is why the Minister for Finance made no bones about his inclusion of a particular package for small and medium enterprises so that our economy can be driven to rise towards prosperity and employment for the future.

Creating employment is the focus when I meet my colleagues at the European Council, when we speak of the fact that unemployment among young people is at 58% in Greece, 50% in Spain and 29% here, while it is virtually nil in Austria and a number of other countries. That is what the European Council and we in this country must focus on - giving these young people hope and an opportunity to see that where one makes decisions with a view towards a thriving economy, that employment, opportunity and work will follow. When I visited Nypro in Bray some days ago, I saw all the young engineers, the vast majority from this country, creating the future in terms of the concepts they translate into reality. That goes back a number of years to a different Minister who made the decision to establish Science Foundation Ireland and invest for the future in mathematics, science, research and innovation. That is paying dividends now.

What the Minister for Finance did in this budget was place a deliberate focus on jobs and job opportunities. The vast majority of hard-pressed, middle-income families and those who are out of work will never have the opportunity we all want them to have unless we change the way we do business and unless we can grow our economy. That is why the competitiveness rating of our country has increased and interest rates internationally for borrowing have fallen. That is in the interests of people having confidence in our indigenous economy to spend, have access to finance and have assistance from the State facilities to maintain and grow their employment numbers and change direction. That is what the budget is about. It is not about any individual party in this House; it is about Government working for the people of Ireland and our country.

People are protesting today and they will be protesting tomorrow, Thursday and Friday. These protestors understand that unlike the Clearing House Group, whose members sit down with officials of the Department of Finance and script the budget for the Government, their voices are not being listened to. Did the Taoiseach read what the ESRI said today? It said that people are trapped in unemployment because they have all the extra burdens of large families to support, because of a dysfunctional social welfare system which puts obstacles in the way of getting back to work, and because of the lack of child care facilities and public services. The Government has made all of those issues worse through, for example, cuts in the income disregard for lone parents, in the back to school allowance and in child benefit. All of those measures further trap these people in poverty.

My question to the Taoiseach is very simple. Does he accept that his party has betrayed the solemn promises it made in the last election to protect the vulnerable, particularly the disabled, and that the Labour Party has betrayed its absolutely explicit and solemn promise not to cut child benefit? This Government is turning on the people to whom it made these promises. Does that not make him ashamed? Does he not agree that it discredits the entire political system?

The Deputy seems to have forgotten that this is the first Government to have appointed a senior Cabinet Minister to deal with children and youth affairs. He conveniently forgets, for instance, that this budget protects the free preschool year for children. He conveniently forgets that the budget introduced an extra 6,500 after-school places for young children so that mothers and fathers will have a better opportunity to balance their home and working lives in such a way as to ensure their children receive the attention they require. It is a case of focusing on the circumstances in which our country finds itself, on what we must do to get our economy back on track and on where jobs can be created. The Deputy can talk until he is blue in the face but our country is going nowhere unless we deal with the question of employment and how we can achieve a reduction in unemployment. That means jobs being created, small and medium enterprises being allowed to flourish, our country's attractiveness as a place for investment from abroad continuing strongly, and the continued capacity of this country to export our goods abroad. That is why, for example, the rebate for hauliers, who have to transport all of the products we produce for export, was included.

This was a budget about the people and our country and central to that, whether the Deputy likes it or not, is that we must prioritise job opportunities and the facilities for work and employment creation. That is the central focus of the budget. I appreciate the difficulties that many hard-pressed families have to contend with. These are the circumstances the Government has to deal with following the legacy left to us. We will deal with it. There are opportunities up ahead but sometimes, as the Deputy knows, tough decisions must be made in the interests of the overall good of our people and our country. I commend the people on their patience in understanding that sometimes these things are necessary.

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