It is proposed to take No. 14, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2012; No. 15, motion re referral to select sub-committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the National Pensions Reserve Fund Act 2000 (Suspension of Exchequer Contributions) Order 2012 and Taxation Agreements; and No. 5, Social Welfare Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 10 p.m. and that Nos. 14 and 15 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business, which shall be No. 94, motion re confidence in the government, shall take place on the conclusion of the opening speeches of No. 5 or at 7.30 p.m., whichever is the later, and shall adjourn after 90 minutes if not previously concluded.
Order of Business
There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and adjourn not later than 10 p.m. agreed to?
It is not agreed. We are opposing the Order of Business today as a protest against how the House is being dealt with and organised this week. There is an extraordinary attempt to suppress any meaningful articulation of issues around, for example, the Social Welfare Bill. It is being rammed through the House utilising the guillotine approach. On Friday we will have a property tax Bill. What the hurry with that is I simply do not know because it is not due to come in until next May, but the Government seems intent on ramming it through by next Friday at 6 p.m.
Our spokesperson has estimated that in respect of the amendments tabled for the Social Welfare Bill each Deputy will only have 13 minutes and there are probably only four or five Deputies who will get in on Committee Stage. This is aside from any other Member who many wish to speak independently of the spokespersons from the main Opposition parties.
In the programme for Government, the Government promised more effective financial scrutiny, that the Dáil would be in a position to hold the Executive to account and that it would tackle the extensive overuse of guillotines. The Chief Whip and Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, said the overuse of the guillotine was one of the great frustrations for Deputies. It will be used in abundance this week to ram the budget through. The only conclusion we can come to is that the reason this is being done is to ensure Labour Party backbenchers and some Fine Gael backbenchers do not get another weekend at home prior to any further decisions having to be made either in the Social Welfare Bill or regarding budget decisions.
It is as a result of Fianna Fáil's incompetence.
The Government wants to ram this thing through this week, suppress dissent and use the guillotine until it gets this thing safely through by Friday evening.
I rarely have much sympathy for An Teachta Martin's view of what the Government is doing because, after all, it is implementing Fianna Fáil policy, but in this case I believe he has a point. We made it clear last week following the time set aside for the X case and A, B and C v. Ireland debate that none of our Teachtaí Dála wanted to speak on that issue, that we had said what we wanted, and that we thought the time should be set aside to talk about the budget and these scathing cuts. We actually suggested that it should be done yesterday, on Monday. I am advised by our Whip that the Government Whip came in and just upended all of that. The whole thing is running on a conveyor belt with the Government - we saw what occurred earlier - refusing to allow Oireachtas Members to advise on our view of the budget and to allow us try to get the Government to change its mind on aspects of the budget to which, we believe, there are good alternatives.
I add my voice to the protest against the guillotine being imposed on this issue. In the programme for Government, the Taoiseach promised a democratic revolution, no less, a new type of politics and a new level of accountability. We are discussing a Bill that will touch deeply on the lives and quality of life of vast numbers of our most vulnerable citizens. I appeal to the Taoiseach at the least to be true to his word on allowing real debate, accountability and transparency on these most important and sensitive of matters and to allow a more open-ended discussion and certainly not to try to truncate the debate on these issues. The Taoiseach would be doing himself a favour if he did so and if he showed some willingness to listen to the views of the public and those affected on this issue. It would not be a climbdown. Rather, it would show a little courage from the Government if it allowed for a debate and, God knows, even better, it would allow time for the Government to reconsider some of these measures.
The Dáil sits until 11.15 p.m. tomorrow night and until 2 p.m. on Thursday to deal with the Social Welfare Bill. It has to go to the Seanad next week in order that the changed rates of unemployment assistance and social welfare protection can take effect on 1 January.
It can be changed.
We cannot have a debate on this.
I do not want a debate. This is a serious issue.
You cannot hop up and down on the Order of Business. There is a procedure.
There will be agriculture questions at 8.50 p.m. on Thursday night.
Thank you.
That is how farcical and ridiculous this entire programme is for the week.
That is a separate issue. You can take that up through your Whip.
It can be changed.
Deputy Martin should look back at the record of his Government.
Deputy, please resume your seat.
Never mind anything else. The Government should do what it said it would do.
Deputy Martin should look back at his record.
The Government should do what it said it would do.
Deputy Martin, please resume your seat. You have had your say on proposal No. 1.
We have not had our say. We want a reasonable opportunity to debate the Social Welfare Bill which we are not getting.
The proposal is that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 10 p.m. Now, please resume your seat.
Deputy Keaveney wants to speak. Deputy McNamara wants to speak.
I am now putting the question.
They will not get any opportunity to discuss it.
They will.
They will not.
Please resume your seat, Deputy.
The Chief Whip is ordering business but there is no consultation with anyone.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
The Chief Whip is not consulting anybody. It is his way and no one else's.
Tá
- Bannon, James.
- Barry, Tom.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Ray.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Joe.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Conlan, Seán.
- Connaughton, Paul J.
- Conway, Ciara.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Creed, Michael.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Deering, Pat.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Dowds, Robert.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Feighan, Frank.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flanagan, Terence.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Hannigan, Dominic.
- Harrington, Noel.
- Harris, Simon.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Hogan, Phil.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Humphreys, Kevin.
- Keating, Derek.
- Keaveney, Colm.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lawlor, Anthony.
- Lynch, Ciarán.
- Lyons, John.
- Mathews, Peter.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McEntee, Shane.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- McNamara, Michael.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Mulherin, Michelle.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Neville, Dan.
- Nolan, Derek.
- Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
- O'Donnell, Kieran.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Mahony, John.
- O'Reilly, Joe.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- Perry, John.
- Phelan, Ann.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Twomey, Liam.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
- Walsh, Brian.
- White, Alex.
Níl
- Adams, Gerry.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Browne, John.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Collins, Joan.
- Collins, Niall.
- Colreavy, Michael.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Daly, Clare.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Fleming, Tom.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Kirk, Seamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- McLellan, Sandra.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Nulty, Patrick.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Brien, Jonathan.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- Ross, Shane.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Is the proposal that Nos. 14 and 15 be decided without debate agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Member's business agreed to? Agreed.
Today saw the publication of the Chief Justice's judgment on the competence of the Government in its handling of the children's referendum, particularly with regard to the booklet, website and advertisement published by the Government. The Chief Justice said that all three failed the test of being fair, equal and impartial. They failed to be neutral, failed to hold the scales equally between both sides and favoured one side over the other. The Chief Justice also drew a contrast between how the Government approached the material and how the Referendum Commission dealt with it, in terms of the neutral manner in which the commission pursued its work. The Constitution belongs to the people and no Government has the right to allocate to itself either funding or the capacity to take the decision away from the people and into its own hands.
This is not Question Time.
I know that, but this is a serious issue-----
I know that too. I appreciate that, Deputy.
-----that goes to the very heart of our Constitution. It is the question of who decides how to change or amend the Constitution. It is a serious judgment, and I ask the Taoiseach, in line with commitments in the programme for Government, to provide special time, early in the new Dáil session, for a full debate on this judgment. I ask that the Minister concerned come before the House to answer questions on it and that the role of the Attorney General be fully clarified. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, and the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, both blamed the Attorney General at the time. They said the Attorney General had scrutinised the material, but if one reads the judgment, it seems that a very amateur-----
Deputy, we cannot deal with this on the Order of Business.
-----and incompetent approach was adopted by the Government, in which it broke every rule in the book in terms of the material it published.
All of these matters can be discussed when the issue is debated in the House.
We have been fobbed off before. When the initial judgment came out we had no debate. In the Seanad they had a special notice question immediately on the publication of the first judgment. There has been no meaningful discussion in the aftermath of the referendum about what was a serious breach by the Government-----
Thank you, Deputy Martin.
-----regarding the holding of the referendum and the material it published.
I am conscious of the fact-----
Taoiseach, the Deputy has made a request for time. That is all it is. It would be better if this was done through the Whips.
There is nothing done through the Whips.
The normal procedure is that if a Deputy wants a debate, he or she asks for it at the Whips' meeting.
It does not happen. The Chief Whip-----
That is the normal procedure. However, the Taoiseach wishes to respond.
I should remind the House that there will be a court case about this matter in January.
The Government is carefully studying the Supreme Court judgment which clarifies how it can make information available to the electorate during a referendum. The judgment in the McKenna cases stated the Government had a duty to provide information for the electorate and clarify issues that might arise during the course of a campaign without advocating a particular position. The Government welcomes the fact that the Supreme Court has for the first time since the judgment in 1995 provided guidelines on the application of this important principle.
Get off the stage.
The court has unanimously acknowledged that the principle enunciated in the McKenna judgment stands as firm as ever, but that the methods by which information is conveyed are very different from those which applied in 1995. It has found that the Government, in attempting to fulfil its duty to inform the people, strayed beyond the boundary of providing information for the electorate. It has also found that the Government at all times acted in a bona fide manner and that all the publications were issued with a view to informing the electorate about the referendum. The Government is committed to working within the parameters of the judgment delivered today in the context of future referendums and will carefully study the conclusions of the court.
In respect of the stability treaty - the Lisbon treaty - when Deputy Micheál Martin was Minister for Foreign Affairs he sent his own document which indicated that it had been produced by the Department of Foreign Affairs and set out what the stability treaty involved in a situation where there was no court judgment. It was much more obvious in terms of information.
Was it really?
Stop the spin.
What he sent on the Lisbon treaty in 2009-----
We cannot restate documents in the House.
The Government issued its materials after the writ was moved.
It was done in the same way on the advice of the then Attorney General.
I call Deputy Gerry Adams.
A disgraceful performance.
Do not come out with that one.
The Taoiseach is not at the Ballinasloe horse fair.
He changes the story all the time.
Please allow Deputy Gerry Adams to make his point on the Order of Business.
The Taoiseach should acknowledge that he was wrong.
Admit it.
It is like Deputy Micheál Martin's property tax leaflet.
Tomorrow the report of Desmond de Silva, QC, on the murder of the human rights solicitor Mr. Pat Finucane will be published in London. This will be followed by a formal statement by the British Prime Minister. The process put in place by the British Government is in direct breach of the Weston Park agreement between it and the Irish Government and against the wish of the Finucane family for a fully independent inquiry. I recognise this is a very busy week, but I ask that time be made available in the next few days for the Dáil to hear short statements by Government and Opposition Members on the issue.
I am not sure how we might arrange this. I spoke to the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. Nicholas Clegg, about the matter in Oslo yesterday. The Prime Minister is to make a statement to the House of Commons tomorrow. As an interested party in so far as the Government is concerned, I expect that we will have access to the report a very short time before the Prime Minister speaks on it. I do not know what is contained in the report and will wait to find out. As Deputy Gerry Adams will be aware, for a long time this House has taken a unanimous view arising from the Weston Park agreement that whatever Judge Cory recommends should be followed through. This principle has been followed by the Government in respect of the Smithwick tribunal and we have consistently called for a public inquiry into the murder of Mr. Pat Finucane. I may have an opportunity to speak to the Prime Minister tomorrow and will wait to find out what is in contained the de Silva report, the view of the Finucane family and what is contained in the statement made in the House of Commons. I will try to facilitate the Deputy.
Perhaps on Thursday or Friday evening.
I will have to attend a European Council meeting in Brussels to deal with other matters. I will see what the Whips can arrange, even if it is for a short period.
The time allowed for the Order of Business has expired.