Vol. 910 No. 1
1. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken recently to the British Prime Minister, Mr David Cameron, on the forthcoming referendum on a possible British exit from the European Union; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9983/16]
2. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach how Ireland is preparing for a possible British exit from the European Union; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9984/16]
3. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the First Minister of Northern Ireland, Ms Arlene Foster, recently; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9993/16]
4. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach to report on his meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr David Cameron, in London on 25 January 2016; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10017/16]
5. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach the role of the Economic Management Council in preparing for a possible vote in June 2016 by the British people to exit the European Union. [10018/16]
6. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the First Minister, Ms Arlene Foster, and the Deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness since the recent Assembly election. [11760/16]
I spoke recently the Prime Minister, Mr. David Cameron, by telephone on 6 May, when we discussed a number of matters, including the UK referendum on EU membership.
On a point of order, is the Taoiseach taking-----
Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive.
So the questions on Brexit and Northern Ireland are being grouped.
Yes.
I do not think that is good practice. We should try to start differently on this occasion. There have been some proposals coming from the Sub-Committee on Dáil Reform. Brexit is a distinctly separate issue from Northern Ireland.
The grouping has been accepted.
I accept that.
I will ask the Whips to look at the issue.
Perhaps we should put down a marker on it for future reference.
I do not mind. We can discuss how they should be broken up in future, if Deputy Martin has views on it. I am happy about that.
I thank the Taoiseach.
In the spirit of partnership, as the Deputy will understand.
We agreed to meet soon and I intend to visit Britain, perhaps on a number of occasions as my schedule permits, before the referendum on 23 June 2016. I meet Prime Minister Cameron regularly in the normal course of events on a bilateral basis and at European Council meetings. Our recent bilateral discussions have centred on the importance of the UK remaining a member of the European Union.
When I met the Prime Minister on 25 January in Downing Street, the focus then was on the European Council meeting on 18 February this year and the constructive role Ireland could play in the negotiations. A package of reforms was subsequently agreed by Heads of State and Government which provides a strong basis for the Prime Minister's campaign for the United Kingdom to stay in a reformed European Union. This, as everybody knows, is clearly of particular importance to Ireland given that our relationship with the UK is closer than with any other EU member state. The Prime Minister fully recognises our mutual interest in matters relating to Northern Ireland, the importance of a reformed and more effective European Union, the common travel area and our strong economic ties.
The Irish Government has been very active in our engagement with the UK Government, and with our UK partners, in outlining our concerns and interests in this matter.
Irish citizens in the UK have a vote in the referendum and it will be important that the Irish Government's position is clearly understood. In this context, a number of Ministers will make visits to Britain in the coming weeks in cities such as Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Glasgow where there are very strong Irish communities, and this week the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, will visit Birmingham.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs has also been very actively involved in EU-UK issues both in Britain, in Northern Ireland and in capitals across Europe. He is in close touch with the Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond, and met him in London most recently on 5 April. The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, will be in Manchester and Liverpool next week on a programme of meetings and events relating to the UK-EU debate.
The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, is also in touch constantly with political leaders in Northern Ireland, including on the issues that are of concern to us regarding a possible leave vote. He was in Belfast yesterday and goes to Derry this evening. Our embassy in London is very active in ensuring there is awareness of the Government's position, both in the Irish and wider British community. Our ambassador to the UK gave evidence to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in Westminster on the UK-EU issue.
Naturally, the Government is very much aware of the risks associated with a possible overall leave result in the referendum. Early in 2015, I established a division in my own Department to strengthen our focus not just on North-South relations on the island but also on the wider set of relationships that exist between Ireland and Britain, including our interdependent economies and issues that arise in the context of the EU-UK debate. This unit works closely with the EU division within my Department, which supports the Cabinet Committee on the European Union.
While the Economic Management Council has not and will not be re-established, and therefore has no role in the matter, the Government continues to plan in order to be as prepared as possible and to actively manage any contingencies that may arise. Departments, agencies and key stakeholders will continue to broaden their analysis of the strategic, policy, operational and sectoral issues that would require priority attention, particularly in the event of a leave vote. This work is being co-ordinated by my Department.
There is an established framework for bilateral co-operation and dialogue between the Irish and UK Governments under the joint statement which both I and Prime Minister Cameron signed in 2012. That framework includes a work programme that is overseen by Secretaries General and Permanent Secretaries of Government Departments here and in London. If the UK votes to leave the EU, it will be more important than ever to have strong bilateral relations and mechanisms by which key policy issues can be addressed.
With regard to contacts in Northern Ireland since the Assembly elections, I spoke on the phone this morning to the First Minister, Arlene Foster, following her appointment as First Minister. I congratulated her on her appointment as First Minister and wished her well in forming a new government. I confirmed that the next North-South Ministerial Council meeting would be held in Dublin next month and that I hoped to make a visit to the North before the summer recess. First Minister Foster indicated to me that she expects that the difficulty, in so far as the putting together of the Executive is concerned, can hopefully be sorted out today.
I also spoke to the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, on the phone on 12 May and I congratulated him on his appointment as Deputy First Minister and on his re-election to the Northern Ireland Assembly. I look forward to continuing to work with First Minister Foster and Deputy First Minister McGuinness to meet challenges and develop opportunities to benefit all the communities across the island of Ireland.
A Cheann Comhairle, if I may establish some ground rules with your good self, is it your intention that we would respond to the reply and then get an opportunity to ask a supplementary question?
You will get an opportunity to ask a supplementary question.
The problem with having an answer that is too long, arising from having six questions dealing with two different topics, is that it can lead to having a response from our good selves that is also too long. The time meanders on with one question.
Time is passing as we speak.
I understand that but I just want to get the ground rules correct from the beginning. We should try to keep the groupings separate. These are separate questions, with one relating to Brexit.
Would the Deputy prefer if we answered the questions individually when some of them overlap?
I would prefer to use a logical and thematic grouping. There are four questions on Brexit and we can deal with them. If there are questions on Northern Ireland, we can deal with them separate from the likes of Turkey's relationship with the European Union, for example. We should not try to put them all into an omnibus answer. There are six questions in this grouping but we have had up to 19 questions grouped on previous occasions. It is just not good practice and it does not allow people to focus on key questions.
The Deputy has a point about Brexit, which is an individual issue.
I am just making the point that it is how we should proceed. I have been saying this for five years. To be fair, some proposals have come from the reform committee relating to this. It would be preferable to get an understanding from the beginning.
With regard to Brexit, it is interesting that the Taoiseach referenced the terms of the EU agreement with Britain. To a large extent, it has almost become irrelevant in the conduct of the campaign, and very quickly the campaign has moved to the fundamentals, which are about Britain staying within the European Union and the economic implications of Britain leaving the European Union for its citizens, with various presentations from the Treasury and so on outlining the level of economic decline that would occur under various scenarios. So much for all the choreography in advance of the referendum, as much of it has not had an impact on the conduct of the campaign. I put it to the Taoiseach that part of the issue in the UK is the level of anti-European Union sentiment that has for over 30 years been articulated across Europe, where the EU has served as an all-purpose whipping boy for English nationalists as well as extremists. That has taken its toll on public opinion.
We must take on board the possibility of the "Leave" side winning, although I hope it does not. Has there been serious scenario planning by the Government and Departments in that context of Britain leaving the EU? During the talks with Independents we met senior officials in various Departments and I was a bit taken aback with the candid admission that there was no scenario planning as such but the Departments were relying on some papers written by various academics in agriculture and other fields about what might happen if Britain left the European Union. It is a very serious issue from our perspective. Will the Taoiseach confirm, one way or the other, if various scenario planning has been undertaken by key economic Departments, including the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to be actioned if Britain takes the decision to leave the European Union.
Given the sheer scale of the importance of the issue for Ireland, the Dáil must agree issues in advance. If the "Leave" side wins, we must implement a co-ordinated series of steps to demonstrate that Ireland will respond. For example, a special sitting of the Dáil would be required, as would a set of formal resolutions by Dáil Éireann setting out Ireland's position on the future of the European Union and relations with the United Kingdom. Will the Taoiseach assure us that all relevant briefings will be supplied and contingency steps involving Dáil Éireann will be discussed and agreed in advance?
There were indications that the Opposition would be invited to participate in events in the UK to discuss the referendum and our view that Britain should remain within the European Union. This is particularly relevant to the Irish diaspora in the UK and Northern Ireland. Will the willingness of the Opposition to participate in this be taken on board, as there has been no engagement with the Opposition in this regard? We have organised our own events, of course, and as I stated, we had a very effective event in Cavan some months ago, where the appalling implications of Brexit for Northern Ireland agriculture were spelled out in no uncertain terms by experts from the agricultural world. That brings to mind the rather difficult position of the DUP in its ongoing opposition to the European Union and in supporting moves to leave the EU.
I do not know whether the Taoiseach discussed that with the First Minister this morning and whether he raised her opposition to the European Union and her desire for Northern Ireland to leave the European Union. I suggest that he should have raised it with her and put it to her that this would be a very retrograde step for the all-island economy and particularly for farmers and the agricultural sector in Northern Ireland. There seems to be very little doubt about that from the expert advice we have received.
With regard to the two questions about Northern Ireland, there needs to be far greater proactive engagement by the two co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement and the peace agreement in general. There was significant disengagement over the last five years. That has to stop, and the Governments must assert the duty of the Executive to fully implement the agreements and to end the exclusion of civil society from involvement in meaningful dialogue.
Now is an opportunity, with the election of the Assembly and the formation of a new Executive, to step back and have a fresh look at the overall situation. We believe there needs to be a new impetus to energise and expand cross-Border contacts, and we put it into the framework agreement for facilitating this Government. I ask for a fresh paper to be prepared regarding how we could do that, suggesting the creation of new bodies. I have long been of the view, for example, that there should be one Enterprise Ireland for the whole island, supporting indigenous enterprise and new start-ups and helping companies that are exporting abroad under the one agency, North and South, a bit like Tourism Ireland. That is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned, and we should be pushing for that kind of thing in the new situation in the years ahead. We also need to look at sharing services, as is happening, albeit very slowly, in the health area in regard to the provision of oncology and cancer services for the north west by Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry and the CAWT initiative. I would appreciate if some new momentum, which is urgently needed, were put into that area of North-South arrangements.
I also ask the Taoiseach for his views on the fact that parties outside the largest two have clearly had enough of being in an Executive in which basic information is withheld and all decisions are cooked in advance. They are now looking at a move to a more formal opposition arrangement. I would appreciate the Taoiseach's views on whether that will improve the work of the Assembly and Executive alike and the implications he believes it has for the future of the system of government in Northern Ireland at the moment.
I will look at the nature of the questions and the way they come in and see whether we can make them more compatible with the views of Deputies opposite, to have them bracketed in a different way. I agree that Brexit is a one-off and very different issue, but the questions in regard to relations between Britain, Northern Ireland and ourselves are grouped.
The first thing to say is that, as Deputy Martin is well aware, the Government here is absolutely committed to doing everything we can to ensure the Irish vote in Britain votes to stay on 23 June. That is why I asked all Irish people in Britain yesterday to ensure they are registered by 7 June and to vote to stay in the European Union on 23 June. It is also important to differentiate, in that while we have almost 1 million people living in Britain, this is a matter for the British electorate, of which the Irish make up almost 1 million. It is their decision. No more than Europeans coming over here to tell us what to do with the Lisbon treaty or the Nice treaty or the Maastricht treaty, I am quite sure that people in Britain would not take too kindly to being lectured by others about what they should do. We have been very careful in what we have done, in talking to Irish communities, Irish councils and any mayors of municipalities or cities who are of Irish descent or have Irish connections. We want to speak to the Irish communities and to remind them of the importance of the decision they are about to make, both because of the exports of over €1.2 billion that go across the Irish Sea every week and because this is a fundamental decision that must be made.
I expect that Deputy Martin himself may avail of an opportunity that we will make available to go and speak to Irish communities somewhere in Britain on this topic to show there is unanimity from the main parties here about Britain remaining a member of the European Union.
We have already committed ourselves, irrespective of what happens, to staying with Europe, the eurozone and the euro. However, I do not want to give the impression that a unit within the Department of the Taoiseach is suddenly beavering away as if the outcome of this referendum is known. It is not known. In recent days, as Deputy Martin is aware, there has been a strengthening of the position for Britain to stay as a member of the European Union, although I cannot predict, nor can anybody else, what will be the eventual outcome. It is true to say, and Deputy Martin has put his finger on an important point, that we in this country have been voting on referenda for more than 40 years. The Irish community generally is aware of the existence of the European Commission, Parliament and the Council, but that is not the case to the same extent in Britain because it has had very few referenda on the question of Europe. It is of real and the utmost significance that the population be as informed as it can be about the choice to be made.
Academic papers have been published, of which Deputies are aware. We would have to think very carefully about what the outcome would be for Ireland if Britain were to vote to leave the EU. Clearly, the extent to which GDP in this State would drop, the increase in costs for exporters and currency fluctuations are unknown. If the UK were to leave the EU, there would be negotiations about the consequences of the exit for at least two years and beyond. I do not want to give the impression that the Irish Government has been focusing entirely on a result that we do not know about. We have been focused, with the British Government, its Ministers and with businesses, on saying that it is really important to make the decision to stay.
With regard to Northern Ireland, I did not discuss the situation with First Minister Arlene Foster this morning. We will hold a meeting on 10 June in Dublin and the issue will more than likely be raised then. I take the point about single bodies for, maybe, a different move here. These meetings, as the Deputy knows, can become quite staid after a number of years, and while the issues are important, there is always movement in between. I recall after the 1996 Canary Wharf bombing that we were to attend the big tourism show in Earl's Court and people suggested that the trip be called off altogether. Instead, we put the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and the former Bord Fáilte onto the one stand, and for the first time ever, Irish people from the island of Ireland were able to promote the tourism facilities North and South from the one exhibition stand. Out of that came an understanding that this was one area where there should not be disagreement. If we consider the support from the Government through Fáilte Ireland for what is now the Dubai Duty Free Irish Open, which was held in Northern Ireland, it can be seen that we provide such support as necessary throughout the country.
In respect of the issue raised about Stormont, I spoke to the First Minister this morning. She believes that while there was a method by which the Alliance Party held the Justice portfolio in the Executive, the Alliance Party made particular demands of both parties in the Executive that they were not prepared to concede. My understanding, from speaking to the First Minister today, is that they will be able to arrive at a conclusion to this today. Otherwise, under the law, another election will be triggered because of the failure to meet the d'Hondt requirement. Moving away from power sharing is a move towards more normalised government because there is a majority between Sinn Féin and the DUP against other parties. If that is the wish of the SDLP, the UUP and the Alliance Party and so on, that is their wish as elected Members. It means that the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly will be able to function and get on with the business of the devolved powers and authority given to it following Stormont.
The Deputy raises the point often about the failure to engage regularly with Northern Ireland. We have been very busy with it, and in defence of the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, he was there for ten weeks in a row working on the Stormont House Agreement. There is a great deal of activity going on and I would be happy to talk to the Deputy about that. If he feels there are other areas where we could evolve some of the companies and some of the cross-Border issues, I would be happy to consider that.
As the Deputy knows, we continue to support some of the infrastructure in the North for access to the north west and there is a sharing of that effort.
These are issues that are all now dependent on what happens on 23 June. For our part, we have made it perfectly clear that we want to work with the British Government, the British people and British business. I commend Michael O'Leary and others who have spoken out about the disastrous consequences for business, jobs and Irish jobs were the British electorate to vote to leave the European Union. It is a big decision, but it is their decision. However, within that group of people, we have almost 1 million Irish people who are entitled to vote on this issue and we want them to vote for Britain to stay as a member of the European Union.
We have had a common travel area since 1922. We do not want that to be in any way disrupted. It allows for travel north, south, east and west on a regular basis as needs be. There are, of course, other implications, which the British Government well understands, concerning the social benefits of Irish participation and our working in Britain over many years. These are all issues of concern to us. If, at the end of the day, the British electorate were to decide to leave, we will have to deal with the consequences. While some preparatory analysis has been considered, the vast majority of our emphasis has been to work with the British Government, British business and the British people to say how important it is that Europe would be a stronger union with Britain as a central member and that Ireland, as a consequence, would be able to continue to maintain our jobs and association with British business across the water.
I also want to make the point that the grouping of these issues is not the way for us to get the maximum information on them. The Taoiseach will recall that I argued during the last Government that we should set aside dedicated time every month to deal with the North. We should not just be dealing with it in the middle of a crisis or when some other difficulty arises. I thought we had that understanding, so I would ask the Taoiseach again to reflect on the matter.
I want to concentrate my remarks on the North but I will make a few broad remarks on the issue of Brexit. Our problem, to which the Taoiseach referred, is not that the people of Britain would decide to leave the EU. Of course, we have a self-interest and there would be a negative effect upon fortunes in this State. However, our problem is that the North would be dragged with them, which would, because of partition, create particular difficulties. I am sure the Taoiseach agrees - he has had occasional forays north - that the physical border is all but invisible. None of us downplay the unfinished business that has to be done to remove the economic and political barriers and deal with the legacy issues, but a return to Border controls would be a very negative and retrograde step.
In my constituency, we are organising a conference early in June on Brexit. Business people and those in the councils and chambers of commerce on both sides of the Border want maximum co-operation and are trying to find ways to develop it. The economic and social impact of Brexit along the Border counties would be substantial. It would also be significant on this State, not least in our agricultural industry but in a whole range of other social and economic matters. Further, it would have an adverse effect on the all-Ireland bodies that are part of the Good Friday Agreement. I wonder if the Taoiseach has had the opportunity to raise these matters with the British Prime Minister and if the Taoiseach has asked him about any of those issues.
I spent most of yesterday afternoon in Stormont and I can tell the Taoiseach that I am very confident that the Executive will be elected tomorrow. In fact, Sinn Féin will be announcing our nominees for ministerial positions later on today. The Taoiseach will recall that it was agreed during the Fresh Start negotiations that arrangements would be put in place to facilitate the creation of an opposition in the Assembly.
The SDLP, the Alliance Party and the Ulster Unionist Party have decided to do precisely this, and that is a matter entirely for themselves. It is a pity they did not tell the voters this during the election. We recall that the UUP and the SDLP were two lead parties in the Northern Ireland Government for nine years and they made a mess of it. The political institutions were suspended twice, they crashed twice and they were down for almost five years during that nine-year period. Sinn Féin did not walk away during any of these shenanigans. Instead, we faced up to the challenges.
I am a united Irelander. Sinn Féin is a progressive republican party. We want to see all-Ireland governance, but the imperative at the moment is to build partnership, get to know our neighbours, try to remove divisions and try to move forward and deliver in difficult circumstances for the people in the North and throughout the island. Let us see how all of that develops.
Sometimes a mistake is made in this Chamber whereby the Government's role is defined as having to give support to people in the North. Of course that is part of it and no sensible person would repudiate that. Anyone who is progressive would welcome a greater involvement by the Irish Government in all of these issues in a strategic and sustainable way. However, as I have said many times, the big job of the Irish Government is to engage with the British Government. Its job is certainly to engage with our neighbours in the North in an ongoing and almost invisible way. It should be just as easy as breathing to be dealing with people in that part of the island. However, the Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty. There is a responsibility and obligation on the Government as co-equal guarantor of the Agreement to keep the British Government to account. It would be useful if our Government was a united Ireland government. I know that is the historical antecedent of the Fine Gael Party. The British Government is a Unionist Government, and it makes no bones about that. However, under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement there is no legal, unconditional commitment to the union. In fact, it can be changed if a majority in the North vote for change. I believe that is what our Government should be doing on bread-and-butter issues, economic issues, legacy issues and all of the social and economic issues as well as on that major issue. Clearly, 100 years on, partition does not work. Whatever merit it had for the elites back in the day when it was imposed on us, now the North does not have the same importance in the context of the British State as an industrial hinterland and so on. I commend that approach to the Taoiseach.
Another specific issue is that the British Government has stated it will scrap the UK's Human Rights Act 1998. This is a crucial point. This threat was contained in the Conservative Party manifesto last year. The Act is a central part of the legislation for the Good Friday Agreement. Human rights activists are deeply concerned about the current status of this threat. A consultation was to be held, but it has not been authorised and has not happened. There has been a range of incoherent and flawed arguments from the British Government in support of its position. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement the British Government is obliged to "complete incorporation into Northern Ireland law of the European Convention on Human Rights". The Human Rights Act gives legal effect to the convention. I am raising this as an issue of grave concern. What is the Taoiseach's up-to-date understanding of this? When was the last time he spoke to Mr. Cameron about it? If he has not done so recently, will he do so and report back to the Dáil at the earliest opportunity? In a sentence, what we need from our Government is consistent strategic engagement with the British Government in all of these issues.
We need quiet diplomacy and because it is an international agreement we ask the Taoiseach to look to our friends in the international community for their support in the implementation of this agreement.
I will be very happy to raise the matter again with the British Prime Minister and report back to the Dáil on the human rights issue. Our justice committee will be known as the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Human Rights. It is an issue of considerable importance to us. I will advise the House on the points the Deputy has raised about the Human Rights Act 1998 in the Conservative Party policy document.
There will be a debate here tomorrow on the cross-party motion on the Dublin-Monaghan bombings and we continue to press the British Government for access to papers that have not been provided for all of these years. Deputy Adams is aware that a couple of years back, when we brought the relatives of the victims and the sole survivor of the Kingsmill killing here, I committed to making available any information about that on Garda files. It took quite a long time to get that through because of legal complications and so on, but that information was transmitted by the Garda personally to the Coroner’s office and is now part of that inquest, investigation and analysis. I have not seen the evidence and do not know whether it will add one way or another to the findings but it was an important signal to the British Government that the Irish Government was prepared to make available documentation hitherto unknown in that respect. It is important to say that we all recognise that the Republic is a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement and that was repeated time and again in respect of the agreements in between, most recently the Stormont House Agreement.
There are differing views of the Brexit referendum in Britain. Some people say we should be negotiating a better deal. Some say if they vote to leave they will have to give a better deal afterwards. The legislation here is very clear, and the agreement was very clear, that this is a one off and if the British people decide to stay, the changes, opportunities and propositions agreed at the European Council will take immediate effect. If they decide to leave, there will be a minimum of two years’ negotiation. Deputy Adams may have referred somewhat obliquely to the point that while the Irish Government in a European context would continue to strongly support the value of Britain being a member of the European Union and would argue for that because it is a stronger union with Britain in it, we have no idea what the attitude of European countries would be towards Britain were it to decide to leave because they have had agreements with it since the 1970s and everybody could argue their case up and down. I could not speak for what any other country’s attitude might be towards Britain were the British electorate to decide to leave. Our view would be that the Union would continue to be a stronger union were Britain to continue to remain a member but I could not speak for other countries.
In respect of the cross-Border facilities, we agree with the Deputy and have raised it with the Deputy First Minister on many occasions. The opportunity for us here over the past few years was not great, given the financial straitjacket the country was in, to assist in respect of the North-South infrastructure projects. Between now and 2020 almost €3 billion will be made available by the European Union towards Northern Ireland for the Peace and INTERREG facilities. People often forget that. They might have a different view of the scale of moneys being made available by the US through the American fund but there is €3 billion available over the next four years for Northern Ireland under the Peace and the INTERREG facilities. That is an important consideration given that Northern Ireland is an area coming out of conflict.
We have more peace walls than we have had for many years and there are still very fragile communities, particularly among young people who experience difficulties. That is why the PEACE and INTERREG funds were important in the considerations of the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, which we held in the first half of 2013, in negotiating the moneys concerned.
It is true that, as Deputy Adams is well aware, if Britain decides to leave the European Union, Northern Ireland would be the most adversely affected region. Ireland would be the country most affected, but Northern Ireland would be particularly severely hit. Every party has to make up its mind. The DUP has given its view on why it believes Britain should leave. I am glad other parties have a different view.
As Deputy Micheál Martin pointed out, there are possibilities for economic entities on the island of Ireland which could offer enhanced opportunities. First and Deputy First Ministers were made welcome in Brussels when we held the Presidency. They were introduced to trade delegations that were coming to Ireland or that we met abroad while promoting the island of Ireland, without any difference of opinion with regard to the companies being pursued by the First and Deputy First Ministers to obtain investment and create jobs in Northern Ireland. I hope we will be able to continue that.
It is 24 May. In less than a month, one of the most momentous decisions of the past 50 years will be made, namely, whether Britain continues to remain a strong and central member of the European Union. I hope it does. Between now and then we will do everything we can to encourage Irish people in Britain to vote to stay. If, by implication or information, the broader electorate have a view on that, I hope it will be a strong result in favour of Britain's remaining as a member of the European Union.
I will advise the House in respect of the human rights issue at a later stage.
I will take two quick supplementary questions from Deputies Martin and Adams. There are two other Members offering.
Did we get a supplementary question already?
No. It is parity of esteem all the way. I want to thank the Taoiseach for confirming that today is 24 May. One issue that has not been clarified is the implications of the EU-UK agreement as they apply to the Irish in Britain, including with regard to social welfare benefits. At the time of the agreement we were told such matters would be clarified. I have seen no paper on this and the implications have not been spelled out in advance in any shape or form. It is important that the Taoiseach clarify the matter and indicate to us the discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister, or that the Irish Government has had with the British Government, on what will be a very important issue. Recent articles suggest that the implications of an exit in terms of social benefits would be quite negative for the Irish in Britain and that the rights that had been assumed from time immemorial would no longer apply in terms of the EU-UK agreements.
Like everybody in this House, I want an affirmative vote - in other words, a vote for Britain to remain within the European Union.
I understand not everybody in the House wants that. I do not believe in the idea, as Deputy Paul Murphy suggests, that the EU is a vast conspiracy against humankind.
It is not a conspiracy. It is really open.
Depending on one's perspective-----
There are vehicles with which one can negotiate.
It is instructive that UKIP and Deputy Paul Murphy have the same view of the EU in many respects.
No, it is not. It is instructive that Deputy Micheál Martin has the same view as the Taoiseach.
One believes it is a socialist enterprise and the other believes it is a mass neoliberal extreme free market enterprise. We want Britain to remain with the EU. It is of benefit to the EU and Ireland in terms of economic and social development. I would like somebody to spell out to me how a decision for Britain to leave the EU would benefit Ireland economically in the long term.
I would like someone to make that argument cogently in this House, instead of the usual superficial rhetoric we get in terms of just opposing it on an ongoing basis for shallow and superficial reasons. I do not say it is perfect. I am as good a critic of the European Union as anyone but critical membership is important rather than outright shallow rejection.
How would the Taoiseach assess morale in terms of the North-South bodies at this juncture, namely, Waterways Ireland and InterTradeIreland? My sense in the past three to four years is that morale has been steadily eroding and people are not sure about their future in those agencies nor about the future certainty of the bodies and where they stand in the overall scheme of things.
On Brexit, Sinn Féin will be campaigning in the North for the North to stay within the European Union, but we are very critical of the European Union. There is a very definite and severe democratic deficit and we want to see a social European Union as opposed to the two-tier conglomeration that is in place at this time.
Coming back to the issue of the North, the Unionists will only engage in a minimalist way on any of the progressive issues. The Taoiseach might have heard the highly offensive remarks from a DUP Minister recently saying they were totally opposed to Acht na Gaeilge. That was a totally unnecessary comment for an otherwise quite sensible Minister, Mr. Simon Hamilton, to make. However, the DUP does commit to working on those issues which are of mutual benefit and advantage, and that does open up a whole raft of matters on which the Government here could be more active. The Taoiseach alluded to infrastructural issues and then pointed to the lack of money, but the fact is that we are a very small landmass and we have a very small island population and the more interconnectedness we have, the better for everybody involved. I again commend the Narrow Water bridge project, which is entirely within the ability of the Government to support. I am hosting a briefing here tomorrow on the issue.
We will talk about this when we deal with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. There are significant issues on which the British Government refuses point blank to engage. This is again a challenge for the Government. There is a significant difference between verbalised mention of issues at the time of an anniversary and the type of consistent, strategic engagement that is necessary. In terms of the Taoiseach's positive remarks on infrastructure, is he considering the Narrow Water project once again?
In respect of Narrow Water, the Government and the Northern Ireland Executive agreed to undertake a review of the project with a view to identifying options for its future development for consideration by both the North-South Ministerial Council in June and initial discussions were held by a group of officials from the North and South which took place in December. Further meetings have taken place and a report will be provided for the June meeting. In addition, officials from North and South met in Newry in April with a view to dealing with the extent of the review. The Government is committed to the Narrow Water bridge concept, which has the potential to provide jobs and a significant boost in the future.
One thing we have since independence is the common travel area. That has always applied regardless of whether Britain and Ireland were outside or inside the European Union. That has exceptional benefits for trade and tourism and many other issues. If Britain were to leave the European Union and Ireland were to remain a member, we would have to work very hard to keep the common travel area alive, in particular in respect of trade coming through this country from Europe and then going to Britain.
Deputy Martin raised the issue of what would happen to Irish people who draw benefits if the UK were to leave the European Union.
No, in terms of the EU-UK agreement, there are implications for migrants and consequently-----
Yes.
-----for Irish residents in Britain.
There are two things that would apply there. Social welfare changes could apply in two cases following the European Union agreement with Britain. The first of these is that child benefit payable in respect of children of EU migrant workers not living in the same state as their parents could be index-linked after four years to reflect conditions in the country where the child lived. There was a lot of discussion about that issue at the European Council. Second, access to what are called in-work benefits, which essentially are intended as top-up payments for lower-paid workers, could be limited for four years for those who are newly entering the UK labour market with payments graduated upwards over that period. Such people would start off lower and would work upwards.
Taoiseach, we need to-----
This would not apply to any EU citizen already living in the United Kingdom. The Government has made this point clearly to the British Government in Downing Street about future Irish workers who will travel to Britain using what is now the common travel area but which also goes back many years. The British Government is acutely aware of how sensitive this issue is for future Irish workers and particularly for Irish workers who might be working in lower-paid jobs. It would not apply in the case of those who work at higher levels. However, they are acutely aware of it and-----
What does that then mean?
No, tá an t-am istigh. A Thaoisigh, le do thoil.
It means they are sensitive to the fact the Government would not want any infringement or loss of current status lower-paid Irish workers would have, were that to apply.
Sin a bhfuil. That is the end of questions to the Taoiseach.
A Cheann Comhairle, 45 minutes were allocated for Taoiseach's questions.
Yes, but I am afraid you must look up Standing Orders. We are going on to Priority Questions.
I am aware of Standing Orders but it is an opportunity-----
We are going on to questions to the-----
-----where precedence is given to those who have put down the questions-----
No, they were the first ten questions.
The questions are-----
----- but also this facility for other Deputies in the House to question the Taoiseach.
Excuse me. You are out of order.
It was carved up between three Deputies-----
Deputy, you are out of order.
-----for an entire 45 minutes.
We just got in ahead of the Deputy.
I am afraid you are out of order.
Where is the new politics?
Deputy, you are out of order.
A Cheann Comhairle, it was a carve-up between three Deputies.
Deputy, you are out of order.
New politics my neck.
You are out of order.
Go away out of that. Put your questions in on time in future and you might get answers then.
Can we proceed to questions to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government? Deputy Martin, can you please-----
A half a million votes as well.
Would Members please restrain themselves?
