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SELECT COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Thursday, 2 Nov 2006

Business of Select Committee.

This meeting has been convened in order that the select committee can consider the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2006, which was referred to the select committee by order of the Dáil on 5 October. I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, and his officials to the meeting.

I suggest the select committee consider the Bill until 1.15 p.m., by which time it may be completed. If not, we may review the situation and decide whether to reconvene until the conclusion of Committee Stage. Is that agreed?

I have a difficulty regarding a letter I have just received that rules out my proposed amendments. I am concerned in two respects. First, my amendments were tabled in good time, although I believe the length of the notice period required by the committee for amendments has increased. Second, it is unacceptable to be told that one's amendments are not germane to the Bill one minute before the start of the committee meeting. As the letter carries the Chairman's signature, I ask him to explain why this is the case.

The arrangements outlined by the Chair regarding the timetable for discussing the Bill are acceptable to me. However, I wish to be excused for approximately 15 or 20 minutes, as I intend to contribute to the Private Members' Business debate in the House on the Government's appalling housing record. I hope the Minister will excuse me for this purpose.

I am sure the Minister does. I agree with Deputy O'Dowd in respect of the ruling out of order of the tabled amendments. I tabled five amendments that have been ruled out of order. I also agree with him in respect of being notified of this decision just before the commencement of Committee Stage. A new procedure has been adopted, with which members must comply, namely, amendments for Bills must be provided in advance. Decisions made to rule amendments out of order should be notified to members at least one day before the commencement of Committee Stage in order that, if necessary, members can get some advice and guidance on the rulings.

The Chairman's stated reason for ruling out of order my five amendments, namely, that they are outside the scope or provisions of the Bill, surprised me. First, this is an electoral Bill and, as has been the case over many years, such Bills tend to have a fairly wide remit. I recall occasions when the Government amended electoral Bills by introducing matters that did not appear to be directly concerned with the original intent of the Bill. I was surprised that an amendment dealing with electronic voting has been ruled out of order. Another amendment that was ruled out of order deals with the establishment of a constituency boundary commission arising from the census. This matter was discussed widely during the summer.

I cannot understand why three amendments have been ruled out of order. I refer to amendments Nos. 26, 28 and 29. Each relates directly to the registration of voters, which is the issue with which this Bill is concerned. Amendment No. 26 relates to the registration of voters for Seanad elections and in particular to the Trinity College Dublin panel, where an anomaly has arisen. I understand this matter has been raised in the Seanad and I wished to deal with it here because the passage of an electoral Bill provides an opportunity to put it right before the next Seanad election.

Amendments Nos. 28 and 29 relate directly to the registration of voters for Dáil elections and arise from the efforts that are under way at present to amend the electoral register. I have received reports that are of great concern to me to the effect that large numbers of people, who have always voted, will be removed from the electoral register and will turn up at polling stations at the next general election to find they have no vote. My understanding is that local authority officials make two visits to an address. If no one is in, the officials write to the address. While they may write a second time, a lack of a reply will result in the removal of people from the register. The problem is that those to whom they are writing are people who have been on the register for many years. Such people assume they are not obliged to do anything to remain on the register and do not respond to the correspondence from the local authorities or to a note dropped in the door from them. Consequently, they will be removed from the register.

While I appreciate Deputy Gilmore's point, the committee is not dealing with the registration of voters in this Bill.

That is what the Bill is about.

My understanding is that it concerns the extension of voting rights to prisoners. Deputy Gilmore has made his point regarding the register of electors. In the main, the provisions of the Bill relate to voting rights for prisoners, apart from some technical provisions at the end. All the aforementioned amendments have been ruled out of order for being outside the scope of these provisions, further to Dáil Standing Order 125.

This advice comes to us from the Clerk Assistant of the Dáil. Unfortunately, I only received the advice from him this morning. I believe this is the manner in which it is always done, although whether this is right or wrong is a different matter.

Has the Chair stated that every amendment has been ruled out of order?

No, amendments Nos. 23 to 31 are out of order because they deal with substantive issues of broad electoral law.

In respect of Deputy Gilmore's comments, what scope do we have?

On a point of order, I have been accused of being arrogant when I have not even opened my mouth. I have no function in this whatsoever.

Deputy O'Dowd knows the Minister has no role in this whatsoever.

What scope do we, as members, have to deal with the very valid points which have been raised in the amendments which have been ruled out of order otherwise than in the context of this Bill?

Deputy McCormack has been a Member of this House for a long time and knows the scope available to Deputies for raising issues.

No, that is not acceptable.

We have discussed the register of electors on numerous occasions. I understand that we even discussed the matter at our last meeting when the Minister was present.

My son received a notice on 1 November telling him that because he did not reply by 31 October, his name was removed from the register. Neither we nor my son, who lives at home, were present when they called. He received a letter from Galway City Council on 1 November telling him that his name had been removed from the register because, as the council understood it, he was not resident there. The letter informed him that he had the opportunity to reply to it before 31 October, which was two days before he received the letter. What scope has he or thousands of other people like him?

He has the next 25 days to rectify matters.

We are not dealing with the compilation of the register of electors at this meeting.

I wish to find out what scope we have to deal with these kinds of problems, which are only arising now.

Deputy McCormack raised these matters at the last meeting of this committee. I recall him raising a number of issues——

This event did not take place until 1 November. I presume thousands more people received such letters.

The Minister has made it very clear that he wants the committee to discuss the register of electors——

I wish to co-operate with the Minister because I know he is anxious to ensure the register is correct. The local authorities are not going in the right direction in respect of producing a correct register if this is the way they go about their business.

My allegation that the Minister displayed arrogance and disrespect is unfair if he was not consulted. Amendments Nos. 25, 27, 30 and 31, which were tabled by me and have been ruled out of order, deal with the register of electors and the automatic registration of voters, which I understand is actually ministerial policy. I understood the Minister would be given this amendment and then indicate whether he would accept it because it could be made germane to the Bill. Therefore, I find it strange that we cannot consider automatically adding voters through their PPS numbers to the register of electors. This would get over issues relating to people in prison. It is a very important issue.

May I be of help? First and foremost, I did not receive it.

I accept that.

I find it very unsettling that amendments come in at a very late stage and that we in the Department do not know whether they will be allowed or disallowed by the Bills Office. We should accept that this is the procedure. There needs to be some correction to that because, frankly, it is wasteful of administrative time and is surely frustrating for Opposition spokespersons. It is also frustrating for a Minister because one does not know what one will receive until the last minute. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges should deal with this matter in both Houses because it is clearly unsatisfactory. I assure members that it was not through any effort of mine.

In respect of the register of electors, I am unsure as to whether Deputy Gilmore was present. I made the point that I would like to have a meeting about this because I accept a point made by Deputy O'Dowd that the register is important to us all and is not a partisan issue. It is an issue that must be updated. I have many views on the matter. We have visited over 1 million houses in the last three months. During that particular case, we visited up to 250,000 houses on more than two occasions. A total of 1,500 workers have been working in the field, €6 million in taxpayers' money has been spent and a few million euro have been spent on advertising. In respect of the case involving Deputy McCormack's son, there is a process whereby the register can be corrected between now and 25 November.

I was very anxious to discuss the register with this committee because by 25 November, we will have invested more money, time and effort than any Government at any stage in the history of this State in ensuring that we have a proper register. The first responsibility of a democrat is to ensure we have a proper electoral roll and that people who are entitled to vote are on this roll. I very much welcome an opportunity to discuss this matter and the future of the register of electors for both Dáil and Seanad elections. I suggested that I would be available to this committee for a session to do precisely that.

I agree with the point made by Deputy O'Dowd on a number of occasions that this is a matter for which we all have responsibility. If situations arise such as that involving Deputy McCormack's son, where he received an inefficient notification from a council, this is clearly indefensible. I took exception to the wording of one letter which was sent out by a council to several thousand people and made this clear to the relevant county manager. I have not seen the letter pertaining to the case of Deputy McCormack's son. I made it very clear that I expected a senior official from the council to go on local radio and apologise for what I regarded as a grotesquely and ignorantly worded letter. The whole point of the advertising campaign was to help people to get on the register and for people to do this in an aggressive way is not acceptable. To be fair, the field officers have done an astonishing job. We have two complaints that people called during the All-Ireland Final, which is a sign that they are fairly enthusiastic about their work.

I welcome an opportunity to discuss the compilation of the register of electors. Now that we have created a very good and up-to-date register, we should examine how the register is compiled, going forward. This also applies in the case of the universities which, to put it mildly, have been lethargic in the updating of their registers. When one sees a significant number of graduates from 1904 who are still registered, one wonders about their longevity. I am open to discussion.

That is very helpful.

All the figures and the compilation will be completed this week. The new website —www.checktheregister.ie — has been operating since yesterday and contains a download facility. I wish to discuss some ideas I have about the future compilation with this committee, which I believe is the appropriate forum in which to discuss such ideas.

I remind members that we are here to discuss a Bill which would extend voting rights to prisoners. I also remind members that we have not been neglectful in our duties in considering this matter. A formal consultation process dealing with the register of electors took place last November. We got our submission in on time and discussed it shortly before Christmas. We have also discussed the matter on several occasions since then. If members do not wish to consider this Bill this morning, I am in their hands.

Like Deputy Gilmore, I must apologise for the fact that I must leave shortly to take part in the very worthy debate on Private Members' Business dealing with the housing crisis, which is within my portfolio, and the Government's refusal to recognise this crisis. Unfortunately, I must leave to deal with this important matter.

While this is an important Bill which deals with a very important issue, it should also deal with the registration of voters in the Seanad election. It should give effect to the 1979 referendum which dealt with this. We have been waiting for nearly 20 years for the result of this referendum to be given effect in the Statute Book, which is completely unacceptable to a significant number of people. It is timely for us to refer to the registration of other persons because the names of 3,034 people in my constituency have been deleted from the register of electors. I accept that a number of those deletions would have been due to bereavements and genuine movements from within or outside the constituency. Some would be duplications. However, there is a considerable amount there which should apply to it. I hope I can move my amendments before I must leave.

I reiterate that the advice I received this morning in respect of these amendments came from the Clerk Assistant of the Dáil who, I understand, has considerably more experience in respect of these matters than any of us here, given his length of service. I regret that under the procedure in place, members only receive notification of it at the beginning of the meeting.

Could we ask that, if possible, the Clerk Assistant of the Dáil gives us this information one day before our meetings? I have prepared material for this meeting which is now pointless. In light of the fact that the time has increased to give him additional knowledge of these amendments, this committee should request that he comes back to it at least one day before its meetings.

We will make such a request.

Sometimes, these committee meetings——

I support that suggestion. Late last night, we were working on the amendments that have been ruled out of order. It is a waste of administrative time.

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